ToC: Big Bear stage: no uphill finish

[Carboncrank]

Reward excellence not mediocrity.

just because they didn't get the uphil finish?

Did you check the changes they made to stage 3? Lot's of climbing. Much harder uphill and harder downhill .

You sounding like a snob.

The Schlecks are coming aren't they?

 

[Hugh Januss]

It's still going to be a very tough stage because of the cumulative climbing, but I agree this change was not only unnecessary, but foolish.

I think I've posted over 10 times in here and other forums the various routes they could make use of to spice up the race and give it the reason it did for moving to May, and those suggestions didn't involve crossing the Sierras, or heading up to Mt. Shasta. And yet, this is the best they've got?

Something tells me politics came into play here, more than what's normally expected.

There are more selective ways into Big Bear, I'm not sure what the criteria was for the course layout, but it was not of a sporting nature.

 

[BroDeal]

You sounding like a snob.

You sound mediocre.

 

[Mellow Velo]

Stage 3? Same as the rest, last climb well away from the finish. I'm not that familiar with these Cali climbs, but is it the same finish as 2008, where Gesink and Levi got away?
A lot of the Big Bear stage is at altitude. First half of the course is harder.
3000 in 30 miles, before 10 miles of flat won't have much of an effect, IMO.
That averages just 2%. Are the profile maps correct?
How do they justify a 21 mile, flat ITT?
At least the February race had a decent hill in the middle.

 

[BroDeal]

And we all know the real US climbing happens in Utah

Yup. Two mountain top finishes with one ending at over 2700 meters is the way to do it.

 

[hakka_lugi]

And Mt. Hood Classic

 

[usedtobefast]

Stage 3? Same as the rest, last climb well away from the finish. I'm not that familiar with these Cali climbs, but is it the same finish as 2008, where Gesink and Levi got away?
A lot of the Big Bear stage is at altitude. First half of the course is harder.
3000 in 30 miles, before 10 miles of flat won't have much of an effect, IMO.
That averages just 2%. Are the profile maps correct?
How do they justify a 21 mile, flat ITT?
At least the February race had a decent hill in the middle.

do not forget a lot of time above 5000 feet will make all parties suck wind.
finish at 7000 is not a piece of cake after 135 miles. i also think the profile is not correct. i have ridden those roads numerous times. i should be a fun race to watch.
the profile appears to be off.

 

[Polish]

it should be a fun race to watch.
the profile appears to be off.

Dude, I agree - it is going to be a AWESOME stage, for sure.

And the nutty California fans - the "Tofusi" - will be out in FORCE.
Hypo-Needle Man, ElkMan, ElvisBigHair guy...it will be like Mardi-Gras in May!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_1Gy8xwm8Zk

And the race organization of the ToC is World Class, not rinky dink like the Med Tour Ask the riders who have raced it...

Savoldelli/Simoni/Ricco/Basso/Bettini/Friere/Sastre/SuperMario/RUBIERA/NIBALI
Rodgers/Evans/Stuey/Davis/Kohl/Ciolek/Thor/Boonen/HAUSSLER/CAVENDISH
Cancellara/BothSchlecks/Voigt/Kirchen/Ekimov/POPOVYCH/SEVILLA/HAEDO
Gesink/Rasmussen/VOECKLER/MILLAR/LÖVKVIST/NOCENTINI/MANCEBO/PELLIZOTTI/GASPAROTTO/WEGELIUS/WEGMANN/GUSEV/RUBIERA VIGIL/WIGGINS

 

[peloton]

Dude, I agree - it is going to be a AWESOME stage, for sure.

And the nutty California fans - the "Tofusi" - will be out in FORCE.
Hypo-Needle Man, ElkMan, ElvisBigHair guy...it will be like Mardi-Gras in May!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_1Gy8xwm8Zk

And the race organization of the ToC is World Class, not rinky dink like the Med Tour Ask the riders who have raced it...

Savoldelli/Simoni/Ricco/Basso/Bettini/Friere/Sastre/SuperMario/RUBIERA/NIBALI
Rodgers/Evans/Stuey/Davis/Kohl/Ciolek/Thor/Boonen/HAUSSLER/CAVENDISH
Cancellara/BothSchlecks/Voigt/Kirchen/Ekimov/POPOVYCH/SEVILLA/HAEDO
Gesink/Rasmussen/VOECKLER/MILLAR/LÖVKVIST/NOCENTINI/MANCEBO/PELLIZOTTI/GASPAROTTO/WEGELIUS/WEGMANN/GUSEV/RUBIERA VIGIL/WIGGINS

How old are you Polish, if you don't mind me asking?

 

[BroDeal]

How old are you Polish, if you don't mind me asking?

No more than fifteen I would guess.

 

[Carboncrank]

Stage 3? Same as the rest, last climb well away from the finish. I'm not that familiar with these Cali climbs, but is it the same finish as 2008, where Gesink and Levi got away?

The added parts are a very steep 1500 ft descent, a 1000 ft climb, a very steep 500 ft climb, with a more technical descent back to the coast before the 2200 ft final climb that will have a different descent than last year. He got a gap of 20 seconds.
Last year was the first year for the stage. Levi had a great attack on the last climb but Peterson sat on all the way then pipped him at the finish.

Last year they finished in downtown. This year at the Beach Boardwalk. I'm really hoping there's not a bunch sprint finish because the finish looks like it's just past a downhill bend.

 

[Carboncrank]

It's still going to be a very tough stage because of the cumulative climbing, but I agree this change was not only unnecessary, but foolish.

I think I've posted over 10 times in here and other forums the various routes they could make use of to spice up the race and give it the reason it did for moving to May, and those suggestions didn't involve crossing the Sierras, or heading up to Mt. Shasta. And yet, this is the best they've got?

Something tells me politics came into play here, more than what's normally expected.

Dude. Shasta? not much of a population up there. Loggers and pot growers, fishermen on the coast.

And check it out. there's no paved roads up the mountain. What am i missing?

 

[Mellow Velo]

The added parts are a very steep 1500 ft descent, a 1000 ft climb, a very steep 500 ft climb, with a more technical descent back to the coast before the 2200 ft final climb that will have a different descent than last year. He got a gap of 20 seconds.
Last year was the first year for the stage. Levi had a great attack on the last climb but Peterson sat on all the way then pipped him at the finish.

Last year they finished in downtown. This year at the Beach Boardwalk. I'm really hoping there's not a bunch sprint finish because the finish looks like it's just past a downhill bend.

Thanks for the informative post. A refreshing change.
Looking at the stage profile, it's all about the final climb.
The others are all out of the way by about the halfway mark.
Good for forming breakaways, but not much else.

The end of this stage may have as much impact on the GC as Big Bear.

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

Dude. Shasta? not much of a population up there. Loggers and pot growers, fishermen on the coast.

And check it out. there's no paved roads up the mountain. What am i missing?

Uh, perhaps an actual trip to the area? The Everett Memorial Highway goes from the town of Mt. Shasta up to 7,730', above timberline on the mountain. Shasta Ski Park tops out around 5,600. Parks Creek Summit tops out at 6868. Mumbo Summit crests at 6520, Castle Lake at 5450. Abbey and Hazelnut are two more climbs. All of these roads are paved.

The point of my post was that the TOC could get great climbing in without having to go to Shasta (or cross the Sierras) that would be superior to what they have done with the Big Bear stage. I've listed many such climbs in the past.

I do think we will see splits, mostly from attrition though, with some 20 select riders together in that finish, with smaller groups scattered after that. Some riders will get shelled. But I think people were hoping for a mountain top finish where one rider after another attacked and came across the line split from each other, and that's not going to happen.

Utah has great climbing, but there's also probably the most challenging climbing in the US in California, climbs such as Onion Valley Road, Horseshoe Meadows, etc. are brutal HC climbs. There are numerous HC and Cat 1 climbs all through there. Problem is, they're miles from large population. Still, it could be done.

 

[BikeCentric]

Uh, perhaps an actual trip to the area? The Everett Memorial Highway goes from the town of Mt. Shasta up to 7,730', above timberline on the mountain. Shasta Ski Park tops out around 5,600. Parks Creek Summit tops out at 6868. Mumbo Summit crests at 6520, Castle Lake at 5450. Abbey and Hazelnut are two more climbs. All of these roads are paved.

The point of my post was that the TOC could get great climbing in without having to go to Shasta (or cross the Sierras) that would be superior to what they have done with the Big Bear stage. I've listed many such climbs in the past.

I do think we will see splits, mostly from attrition though, with some 20 select riders together in that finish, with smaller groups scattered after that. Some riders will get shelled. But I think people were hoping for a mountain top finish where one rider after another attacked and came across the line split from each other, and that's not going to happen.

Utah has great climbing, but there's also probably the most challenging climbing in the US in California, climbs such as Onion Valley Road, Horseshoe Meadows, etc. are brutal HC climbs. There are numerous HC and Cat 1 climbs all through there. Problem is, they're miles from large population. Still, it could be done.

Diablo in NorCal would been pretty awesome - 15 mile climb, all good pavement, near the town of Walnut Creek.

 

[noflyzone_allstars]

I said it in the thread back in October...

A few notes about the "new" stages at the end:

Stage 6 will not include the climb to Mt. Baldy ski lifts. It's an awesome climb but it dead ends in a dirt parking lot with a couple porta potties and it's in an entirely different mountain range than Big Bear.

This "Queen Stage" (route rumor: http://www.bikemap.net/route/340645?125623319557230#lt=34.25324&ln=-117.12387&z=11&t=0) will have a ton of climbing but generally not that steep. In fact a lot of rolling sections up the last climb and several miles of flat into the finish.

I wouldn't be surprised if the Big Bear stage is one of those over-hyped, under-dramatic days where guys watch each other and save it for the next day's TT and the final day which sounds like it could be more selective and decisive.

On the last day, Decker Canyon is 1600+ vertical feet at 7% and the finishing circuits are said to include "Rock Store Hill" which is about 900 vertical feet and probably around 6%. These are my home roads and that would be a brutal race, great for attacking and horrible for organizing a chase.

People are still overlooking the Stage 8 final day. 84 miles/4 laps of a circuit that includes Rock Store climb and descending Westlake is where GC fireworks will happen if they happen at all.

FWIW the Big Bear finish will be uphill for the last half mile at least. TT has at least one nasty short hill, probably over 10% x 2 laps

 

[flicker]

The action in the race will be on stge 2+3. Big Bear will be an excercise in control.