Tommeke, The Greatest Cobblestone Rider of All Time?

[Netserk]

Without doubt he most successful (Bolded is record):

Boonen:

Omloop: 0
K-B-K: 3
Dwars: 1
E3: 5
G-W: 3
RVV: 3
P-R: 4

Total: 19

Museeuw:

Omloop: 2
K-B-K: 2
Dwars: 2
E3: 2
G-W: 0
RVV: 3
P-R: 3

Total: 14

Van Looy:

Omloop: 0
K-B-K: 0
Dwars: 0
E3: 4
G-W: 3
RVV: 2
P-R: 3

Total: 12

Raas:

Omloop: 1
K-B-K: 2
Dwars: 1
E3: 3
G-W: 1
RVV: 2
P-R: 1

Total: 11

De Vlaeminck:

Omloop: 2
K-B-K: 2
Dwars: 0
E3: 1
G-W: 0
RVV: 1
P-R: 4

Total: 10

Merckx:

Omloop: 2
K-B-K: 0
Dwars: 0
E3: 0
G-W: 3
RVV: 2
P-R: 3

Total: 10

Cancellara:

Omloop: 0
K-B-K: 0
Dwars: 0
E3: 3
G-W: 0
RVV: 3
P-R: 3

Total: 9

Van Petegem:

Omloop: 3
K-B-K: 1
Dwars: 0
E3: 1
G-W: 0
RVV: 2
P-R: 1

Total: 8
...

Sum up:

Boonen: 19
Museeuw: 14
Van Looy: 12
Raas: 11
De Vlaeminck: 10
Merckx: 10
Cancellara: 9
Van Petegem: 8

*I didn't include The Greatest Race In The World, as that obviously is in a league of it's own. Anyway, Kittel should get a mention here together with Cav.
**The list is not perfect, but other than Petegem, I don't think there can be any doubt if any of the others deserves to be on the list.
***I guess this thread can both be used to discuss/compare riders on cobbles from all time, contemporary riders, and as a Boonen thread, given he doesn't have any (yikes!).

One thing is palmares, but who do you think is the greatest cobblestone rider of all time? Will this list change next season? Are there any riders currently other than Boonen and Canc, who someday will make this list?

PS: for the love of god, don't add a poll to this thread. It's a discussion thread, not a poll thread.

 

[Kwibus]

Looking at his palmares he is indeed the greatest cobblestone rider of all time, but it's hard to judge those other eras.

I've only started following cycling (as in watching every race if possible) since 2010 and he has shown greatness since than, but I also missed a lot of his big wins from before 2010. Imo Cancellara has been more impressive on the cobbles since 2010 so I always see him as the best cobblestone rider, but Boonen had won a lot more before 2010.

 

[Cance > TheRest]

Looking at his palmares he is indeed the greatest cobblestone rider of all time, but it's hard to judge those other eras.

I've only started following cycling (as in watching every race if possible) since 2010 and he has shown greatness since than, but I also missed a lot of his big wins from before 2010. Imo Cancellara has been more impressive on the cobbles since 2010 so I always see him as the best cobblestone rider, but Boonen had won a lot more before 2010.

Agreed on this last point. Boonen was the best man from 2006-2009 and from 2010 to 2014 Cancellara has been the strongest. Based on his palmares, it's quite obvious that Boonen is the best cobbles specialist, historically, whereas Cancellara is arguably the better classics specialist in general due to greater versatility.

 

[Dazed and Confused]

Merckx is still the most impressive cobbles rider of all time.

Omloop: 2
K-B-K: 0
Dwars: 0
E3: 0
G-W: 3
RVV: 2
P-R: 3

A ridiculous haul considering stones wasn't his "specialty".

As for the peak boys, Boonen comes out on top here but I prefer Cancellara's skills as cyclist overall.

 

[slowoldman]

Boonen also has the advantage of being on an incredibly strong classics team. You can't underestimate that.... take Sunday for example, Canc was outnumbered at every turn.

 

[Netserk]

Boonen also has the advantage of being on an incredibly strong classics team. You can't underestimate that.... take Sunday for example, Canc was outnumbered at every turn.

I find it only natural that the best rider is on the best team, however QS haven't always been this good, and it hasn't always been to his personal benefit (Devolder).

 

[slowoldman]

I find it only natural that the best rider is on the best team, however QS haven't always been this good, and it hasn't always been to his personal benefit (Devolder).

Quik step have been good as long as I can remember going back to the Mapei days. When did Canc have a better team than Boonen (aside from Boonen's time on Postal?). I compare Canc and Boonen simply because they have ridden against each other.

 

[Netserk]

Quik step have been good as long as I can remember going back to the Mapei days. When did Canc have a better team than Boonen (aside from Boonen's time on Postal?). I compare Canc and Boonen simply because they have ridden against each other.

I think QS were a little 'weak' (compared to other years) in 2005-07. Nuyens and Pozzato (in those years) weren't as strong as Devolder, Chavanel, Terpstra & Stybar on the cobbles.

On CSC Canc had a more than decent team, and certainly didn't lose those years due to team strength.

 

[mr. tibbs]

Boonen's certainly better at capitalizing on situations where he can get on the top step, but Cancellara's overall performance strongly recommends him, too. I guess a number of things can go into this. Wins vs. podiums, tactics in the finale, caring/not caring for any place after first, etc.

Whatever the case, I love watching these two ride against each other. Flanders 2010 is still my favorite edition of that race--even though I'm more of a Boonen fan.

 

[Parrulo]

Boonen between 05 and 09 was on a league of his own.

He did have a strong team between 08 and now (except 2011) but that has costed him 2 rondes where he was clearly the strongest. And this year in PR he sticked in a losing move which lead to a team win. When was the last time you saw a team leader keep pushing on a losing move in order to give his team mates a better chance?

Also the whole Cancellara races more spectacularly argument is imo very arguable.

Even in his worse years, Boonen was always the one breaking up the race in Roubaix and starting the attacks, even in 2010, How many times has Cancellared started the fireworks on a big classic without being the strongest and being capable of riding away from everybody?

 

[Jspear]

Boonen between 05 and 09 was on a league of his own.

He did have a strong team between 08 and now (except 2011) but that has costed him 2 rondes where he was clearly the strongest. And this year in PR he sticked in a losing move which lead to a team win. When was the last time you saw a team leader keep pushing on a losing move in order to give his team mates a better chance?

Also the whole Cancellara races more spectacularly argument is imo very arguable.

Even in his worse years, Boonen was always the one breaking up the race in Roubaix and starting the attacks, even in 2010, How many times has Cancellared started the fireworks on a big classic without being the strongest and being capable of riding away from everybody?

Tom PR 2014.

 

[Miburo]

Boonen between 05 and 09 was on a league of his own.

He did have a strong team between 08 and now (except 2011) but that has costed him 2 rondes where he was clearly the strongest. And this year in PR he sticked in a losing move which lead to a team win. When was the last time you saw a team leader keep pushing on a losing move in order to give his team mates a better chance?

Also the whole Cancellara races more spectacularly argument is imo very arguable.

Even in his worse years, Boonen was always the one breaking up the race in Roubaix and starting the attacks, even in 2010, How many times has Cancellared started the fireworks on a big classic without being the strongest and being capable of riding away from everybody?

Explain me how Boonen was clearly the strongest in '08 and '09?

He was one of the best and clearly had the shape to win. But he was clearly the strongest? lol

But yea devolder for sure stole 1 ronde from him.

 

[jaylew]

I find it only natural that the best rider is on the best team, however QS haven't always been this good, and it hasn't always been to his personal benefit (Devolder).

I can't even imagine Canc riding for QS. It would be just unfair.

 

[Parrulo]

Explain me how Boonen was clearly the strongest in '08 and '09?

He was one of the best and clearly had the shape to win. But he was clearly the strongest? lol

But yea devolder for sure stole 1 ronde from him.

Did you even watch those races?

Boonen played with Cancellara and Ballan in the 08 PR. Won the sprint on the velodrome by 25 meters and not even once did he look to be struggling a bit.

The way he goes up the Muur on the ronde in 09 is insulting, compared to the other riders he doesn't look too be even trying.

In the 09 PR he made the attacks that caused the selection and crashes or not would have won the sprint. There is a reason Hushovd cooked that corner, he was absolutely on the limit. As for Pippo on the flat he kept losing time to Boonen and lost half a minute in 10k's.

How was he not the strongest in those years? Explain me?

 

[Duke_S]

Point system needs to be weighed much more towards PR and RVV, same points for PR as Dwars is a bit of a joke. Which of the favorites even raced, let alone tried to win those semi-classics back then?

By stats, of course Boonen is the best. But if everyone raced in the same era as everyone else, he would not be the best, it would be something like...
De Vlaeminck
Merckx
Moser
Kelly
Boonen

 

[Netserk]

Point system needs to be weighed much more towards PR and RVV, same points for PR as Dwars is a bit of a joke. Which of the favorites even raced, let alone tried to win those semi-classics back then?

By stats, of course Boonen is the best. But if everyone raced in the same era as everyone else, he would not be the best, it would be something like...
De Vlaeminck
Merckx
Moser
Kelly
Boonen

It's not points, but number of cobbled classic wins. All of them except Raas (and Petegem, but his presence on the list is borderline) has 5 , 6 or 7 monuments, but Raas has as the only one won them all. Also nothing is hidden, it's listed which wins each one has. Sure both Van Looy, De Vlaeminck and Merckx have won one less cobbled monument than Canc, but I would still list at least two of them higher than him.

BTW major lol at Moser and Kelly over Boonen.

 

[happychappy]

It will certainly be a blow to the sport when he retires. Hope he never retires!

 

[Netserk]

It will certainly be a blow to the sport when he retires. Hope he never retires!

Lol.

 

[Duke_S]

It's not points, but number of cobbled classic wins. All of them except Raas (and Petegem, but his presence on the list is borderline) has 5 , 6 or 7 monuments, but Raas has as the only one won them all. Also nothing is hidden, it's listed which wins each one has. Sure both Van Looy, De Vlaeminck and Merckx have won one less cobbled monument than Canc, but I would still list at least two of them higher than him.

BTW major lol at Moser and Kelly over Boonen.

Boonen: Competition - Cancellara, his own team
PR: 3,24,9,1,2,6,1,1,5,1,10
Moser: Competition - De Vlaeminck, Merckx, Maertens, Raas, Kelly
PR: 2,5,2,13,1,1,1,3,10,3

Also note I said if they competed in the same era, in which case Boonen will have hard time dropping/outsprinting Kelly in his 1984-1986 form.

 

[Flamin]

Boonen between 05 and 09 was on a league of his own.

He did have a strong team between 08 and now (except 2011) but that has costed him 2 rondes where he was clearly the strongest. And this year in PR he sticked in a losing move which lead to a team win. When was the last time you saw a team leader keep pushing on a losing move in order to give his team mates a better chance?

Also the whole Cancellara races more spectacularly argument is imo very arguable.

Even in his worse years, Boonen was always the one breaking up the race in Roubaix and starting the attacks, even in 2010, How many times has Cancellared started the fireworks on a big classic without being the strongest and being capable of riding away from everybody?

Not going tot argue with the rest of your post, but do you really think he thought even a single second about giving a team mate a bigger chance of winning?

 

[Miburo]

Did you even watch those races?

Boonen played with Cancellara and Ballan in the 08 PR. Won the sprint on the velodrome by 25 meters and not even once did he look to be struggling a bit.

The way he goes up the Muur on the ronde in 09 is insulting, compared to the other riders he doesn't look too be even trying.

In the 09 PR he made the attacks that caused the selection and crashes or not would have won the sprint. There is a reason Hushovd cooked that corner, he was absolutely on the limit. As for Pippo on the flat he kept losing time to Boonen and lost half a minute in 10k's.

How was he not the strongest in those years? Explain me?

Didn't happen in RVV so not relevant.

And in '09, yea he prob was the strongest. But in PR '09 he got lucky that pippo got held back in the crash

 

[Benotti69]

You cant compare across eras.

If Merckx did a Boonen and only prepared for Spring would he have 30+ wins?

Not too many teams prepares as hard for the Spring classics as OPQS, Canc ( 1 man team) and few others.

 

[jaylew]

Comparing athletes across eras is always a futile exercise imo.

 

[FreeSpirit]

Tom Boonens 2012 PR victory is the most Dominant performance in the last 15 years. Had Cancellara been there I think I can safely say he would have ate dust

 

[nepetalactone]

Tom Boonens 2012 PR victory is the most Dominant performance in the last 15 years. Had Cancellara been there I think I can safely say he would have ate dust

Arguable. What about Cance's 2010 RVV? Maybe not as long a move, but equally dominant. He dropped Boonen (easily 2nd strongest) on the Muur, and rode away seated putting a minute into him in 10km.