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Tommy D faster than Big Mig

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Mar 11, 2009
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Tom Danielson recently completed his first Tour de France in respectable fashion.
Riding on a Clean Team in an arguably Clean Tour - he finished Top 10.

With an average speed that was just a tad under 40km/hr.

An average speed that was FASTER than any of Big Migs Victories.

Faster than Claudio Chiappucci or Tony Rominger.
Faster than Richard Virenque or Evgeni Berzin.
Faster than Gianni Bugno or Piotr Ugrumov.
Faster than Luc Leblanc or Alex Zülle

Now even the most robustly tinfoil hatted clinician will have to agree that Tommy D was NOT as doped to the gills on EPO as those others.

So how does Tommy D go so fast in the TdF?
In his very first TdF.
Faster than most of the dopers of the 90's.
Faster than ALL the riders of the 80's?

There are some posters here in the Clinic that say thing such as:
"EPO was the game changer end of story"
"look at the results of what happened once EPO was introduced in the late 80s"

Isn't it time to retire that tired notion that EPO is the reason why speeds have increased?
It is a Myth that is soooo tired.
Tired Myth, go to sleep.
Shhhhhhhhhh.........
 
Polish said:
Tom Danielson recently completed his first Tour de France in respectable fashion.
With an average speed that was just a tad under 40km/hr.

An average speed that was FASTER than any of Big Migs Victories.

So how does Tommy D go so fast in the TdF?
In his very first TdF.
Faster than most of the dopers of the 90's.
Faster than ALL the riders of the 80's?

Isn't it time to retire that tired notion that EPO is the reason why speeds have increased?
It is a Myth that is soooo tired.
Tired Myth, go to sleep.
Shhhhhhhhhh.........
Brilliant OP. :rolleyes: Now go to sleep.
 
May 23, 2010
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Polish said:
Tom Danielson recently completed his first Tour de France in respectable fashion.
Riding on a Clean Team in an arguably Clean Tour - he finished Top 10.

With an average speed that was just a tad under 40km/hr.

An average speed that was FASTER than any of Big Migs Victories.

Faster than Claudio Chiappucci or Tony Rominger.
Faster than Richard Virenque or Evgeni Berzin.
Faster than Gianni Bugno or Piotr Ugrumov.
Faster than Luc Leblanc or Alex Zülle

Now even the most robustly tinfoil hatted clinician will have to agree that Tommy D was NOT as doped to the gills on EPO as those others.

So how does Tommy D go so fast in the TdF?
In his very first TdF.
Faster than most of the dopers of the 90's.
Faster than ALL the riders of the 80's?

There are some posters here in the Clinic that say thing such as:
"EPO was the game changer end of story"
"look at the results of what happened once EPO was introduced in the late 80s"

Isn't it time to retire that tired notion that EPO is the reason why speeds have increased?
It is a Myth that is soooo tired.
Tired Myth, go to sleep.
Shhhhhhhhhh.........
its dangerous too just put race speed down to dopage - the route, the road surface, the weather and other factors all effect race times - for example for many years the 1964 time of paris roubaix stood head and shoulders above the others but Peter Post 's time was more down to an old parour (in truth most of the pave sections had been tarmaced over so they decided to move the races start and route eastwards after this time) and also a howliing tailwind.
To compare times is very difficult for a start in Indurains time the race was around 300 km longer (or more)- which does make a difference .
looking at 2011 compared to say 1993 ( all facts from the excellent Memoire du cyclisme)
1993
distance 3714 km
prologue
2 ITT
1 TTT
5 mountain stages
last stage 196 km
average speed 38.7 km/h
2011
distance 3430
1 ITT
1 TTT
6 Mountain stages
last stage 95 km
average speed 39.7
The reason i have included the laughing criterium stage in these figures is that both races ended with the same circuit but Indurain had around 100 km extra to lap up the applause before things got serious on the Champs (which would have an effect on moyenne)
In addition Indurain was (with the exception of ITT's ) riding a bike that would have not been so far removed from that of Bobet's 1960 model. Add in Race radios - team cars, carbon bikes, and i would expect an average speed of just under 40k to be seen as reasonable in 1993 and a slightly higher speed in 2011 to be reasonable too.
so well done Mr Danielson - but he has got a long way to go before being compared to El Rey
thanks
 
Mar 11, 2009
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dancing on pedals said:
snip great post snip
so well done Mr Danielson - but he has got a long way to go before being compared to El Rey
thanks
Agree completely.
Big Mig is awesome and a 2011 Big Mig would have won this years Tour IMO.
Heck, he would win quite a few.
Of course he would

My point was that Tommy D, and the rest of this year's top10, rode faster than the 99% of the mega dopers of the 90's.
And Tommy D etc did NOT ride faster due to doping.
Other variables are much more important.
Its so obvious.

That said, Tommy D rode this years TdF at a speed that was only 2% slower than the average speed of ALL seven of Lance's WINS.

Rode faster than Alberto last year and only 2% slower than Lance yikes.

Now nobody will suggest that Tommy D has a "lazer-like focus".
And he would have to learn how to pronounce the names of the Alpine Passes before reconning them and riding them over and over.
And have to learn to face the fan in the wind tunnel even though its slower.

But riding his very first Tour at the age of 33 - and being only 2% slower than Lance.
Makes you kind of wonder what could have been....
 
Aug 3, 2009
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Polish said:
Agree completely.
Big Mig is awesome and a 2011 Big Mig would have won this years Tour IMO.
Heck, he would win quite a few.
Of course he would.
But I thought Tommy D. rode faster than Big Mig could. And, he clearly couldn't have won anything between 1999 and 2005, so that doesn't really leave too many does it?
 
Sep 5, 2009
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Polish said:
Agree completely.
Big Mig is awesome and a 2011 Big Mig would have won this years Tour IMO.
Heck, he would win quite a few.
Of course he would

My point was that Tommy D, and the rest of this year's top10, rode faster than the 99% of the mega dopers of the 90's.
And Tommy D etc did NOT ride faster due to doping.
Other variables are much more important.
Its so obvious.

That said, Tommy D rode this years TdF at a speed that was only 2% slower than the average speed of ALL seven of Lance's WINS.

Rode faster than Alberto last year and only 2% slower than Lance yikes.

Now nobody will suggest that Tommy D has a "lazer-like focus".
And he would have to learn how to pronounce the names of the Alpine Passes before reconning them and riding them over and over.
And have to learn to face the fan in the wind tunnel even though its slower.

But riding his very first Tour at the age of 33 - and being only 2% slower than Lance.
Makes you kind of wonder what could have been....
Kind of makes you wonder what increase in power has to be developed exponentially to provide a lineal increase of 2% in average speed for LA over TD :)
 
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