Tour de France Tour de France 2024 route rumours and announcements

[SHAD0W93]

Or so the story goes. like literary all the time, but only before the race starts, that is.

True, Roglic is always saving energy for the next race.

 

[Ulle97]

A little off topic, but TDF related.

What would you classify as the 10 hardest TDF climbs in the modern era. Hard to do off the top of my head but I'll start it off with the 10 hardest I can recall.

1. Col du Granon
2. Col du Portet
3. Col du Galibier
4. Col de la Loze
5. Mont Ventoux
6. Col du Tourmalet
7. Col de la Bonette
8. Col de la Madeleine
9. Plateau de Beille
10. Mont du Chat

What ones would you include or omit???
I've left out a few legendary climbs like Alpe d'Huez and Aubisque. Then some more of the tough modern ones like Hautacam, Pierre St.Martin etc.

 

[houtdffan]

Grannon is too short

Galiber north is hardest if telegraph is included

 

[Froome]

True, Roglic is always saving energy for the next race.

It's called long defensive range mate!

 

[Froome]

A little off topic, but TDF related.

What would you classify as the 10 hardest TDF climbs in the modern era. Hard to do off the top of my head but I'll start it off with the 10 hardest I can recall.

1. Col du Granon
2. Col du Portet
3. Col du Galibier
4. Col de la Loze
5. Mont Ventoux
6. Col du Tourmalet
7. Col de la Bonette
8. Col de la Madeleine
9. Plateau de Beille
10. Mont du Chat

What ones would you include or omit???
I've left out a few legendary climbs like Alpe d'Huez and Aubisque. Then some more of the tough modern ones like Hautacam, Pierre St.Martin etc.

My dream is see Col du Sabot one day in the Tour.

I think La Loze and Ventoux are more hard than Portet and Galibier.

Granon is the hardest, no doubt.

 

[Valv.Piti]

Granon is just super, super hard due to always being a MTF after a long day in the Alps and the altitude for such a relatively steep climb. Purely looking at the numbers, a climb like Portet should definitely be harder, but in terms of creating big gaps and havoc among the best riders, its prolly number 1 or close to it due to other factors than straight up numbers

 

[Froome]

In no particular order

- Portet
- Tourmalet east
- Madeleine south
- Mont Ventoux
- Mont du Chat
- Loze 2020 version
- Agnello east
- Pierre Saint Martin north
- Croix-de-Fer north.
- GSB north

Don't even remember some of these being raced? It's cause designs were designed to minimize the effect of some of these beasts.

You really don't believe Granon is more harder than the majority of those climbs?
Granon have all the necessary for big gaps:altitude, decent lenght, stepness, narrow road.

 

[QueenStagiaire]

In no particular order

- Portet
- Tourmalet east
- Madeleine south
- Mont Ventoux
- Mont du Chat
- Loze 2020 version
- Agnello east
- Pierre Saint Martin north
- Croix-de-Fer north.
- GSB north

Don't even remember some of these being raced? It's cause designs were designed to minimize the effect of some of these beasts.

I would put Grand Colombier SE above Pierre Saint Martin north, very similar climbs anyway, but one was a super hard Sky demolition and the other is Pogačar turns into Roglič land.

 

[Froome]

Let's hope for Plateau de Solaison in the Tour.

Col Madeleine is probably the most underrated climb in France.

 

[Valv.Piti]

Let's hope for Plateau de Solaison in the Tour.

Col Madeleine is probably the most underrated climb in France.

There are infinite climbs like Plateau de Solaison that arent really used. Best example of that is Samoens and Collet d' Allevard from this year's Dauphine Libere. All three of them would be great MTFs, especially Samoens

 

[Krzysztof_O]

A little off topic, but TDF related.

What would you classify as the 10 hardest TDF climbs in the modern era. Hard to do off the top of my head but I'll start it off with the 10 hardest I can recall.

1. Col du Granon
2. Col du Portet
3. Col du Galibier
4. Col de la Loze
5. Mont Ventoux
6. Col du Tourmalet
7. Col de la Bonette
8. Col de la Madeleine
9. Plateau de Beille
10. Mont du Chat

What ones would you include or omit???
I've left out a few legendary climbs like Alpe d'Huez and Aubisque. Then some more of the tough modern ones like Hautacam, Pierre St.Martin etc.

Loze (2020 version) and Mt Ventoux (in this order) are overall (combination of steepness and elevation gain) arguably two most difficult climbs ever used in the Tour. As for other very hard climbs, @Red Rick 's list is very good. if one treat Galibier+Telegraphe combo as one climb then it's absolutely huge (almost 2000 m of elevation gain) but it has a descent break for recovery.

 

[Valv.Piti]

Think most intelligent people consider Telegraphe + Galibier just as Galibier N. Especially if you have ridden the damn thing.

 

[Zoetemelk-fan]

A little off topic, but TDF related.

What would you classify as the 10 hardest TDF climbs in the modern era. Hard to do off the top of my head but I'll start it off with the 10 hardest I can recall.

1. Col du Granon
2. Col du Portet
3. Col du Galibier
4. Col de la Loze
5. Mont Ventoux
6. Col du Tourmalet
7. Col de la Bonette
8. Col de la Madeleine
9. Plateau de Beille
10. Mont du Chat

What ones would you include or omit???
I've left out a few legendary climbs like Alpe d'Huez and Aubisque. Then some more of the tough modern ones like Hautacam, Pierre St.Martin etc.

Of course depends on the intensity they are climbed, i.e. eg. whether they are just "bumps in the road" or MTF with everything on the line for the best climbers.
I remember sometime in the 00s having used Gabriele Bugada's 'difficulty index' on salite.ch to form the basis of a pecking order, based on this calculation method:

Salite d'Europa - Indice di difficoltÃ

Eg. this difficulty ranking for France:

Salite d'Europa - Lista delle salite

Note e.g. Val Thorens in its full ascent being present already at page 1 here.

In addition, the process before a MTF.
Isola 2000 on the 11th stage of the 1993 edition with 179km stage from Serre Sevalier over monsters like Col d'Izoard - Col du Vars - Cìme du La Bonette-Restefond as a warm-up is a significantly tougher climb than e.g. with short stage 'false flat' from Nice as run up.
I would personally also place Col du Granon high on the list if, for example, The Col du Madelaine and Col du Télegraphe-Col Galibier monster have been passed before a final battle.
But actually also in itself when the avg. percentage is +9% distributed over +11km (l'Alpe d'Huez is approx. 8% plus/minus, depending on the definiton of start/end measurement)

(think it requires me to go into the thinking box before I make a personal top 10 bid)

 

[Netserk]

1. Loze (2020)
2. Agnel (2011)
3. Portet (2021)
4. Ventoux (2021)
5. Bonette (2024)
6. Madeleine (2020)
7. Madeleine (2013)
8. Croix de Fer (2015)
9. Larrau (2007)
10. Pailhères (2013)

Honourable Mentions: 2*Tourmalet, Galibier, Pierre Saint-Martin, Lombarde, Granon, Val Thorans, Grand-Saint-Bernard, Chamrousse, Iseran, Beille.

 

[Netserk]

Galibier is categorised as two climbs. Grand-Saint-Bernard is too mid gradient for too much of it.

The Pyrenees get a pity boost.

 

[Netserk]

Taking it over Madeleine is all because of altitude?

Yes, at same altitude Madeleine would have been above it. And Bonette looks cooler.

 

[Ulle97]

In 15 years time, ASO might do a grand depart in Turkey and take a trip up Mount Babadag to put to bed all arguments as to the hardest used TDF climb😂😂

 

[QueenStagiaire]

And Bonette looks cooler.

Have you considered doing route design for ASO?

 

[Krzysztof_O]

In 15 years time, ASO might do a grand depart in Turkey and take a trip up Mount Babadag to put to bed all arguments as to the hardest used TDF climb😂😂

I think that Finestre will end all discussions in a few years.

 

[Netserk]

Have you considered doing route design for ASO?

Not being French and affiliated with L'Équipe and/or French cycling, I don't think I need to apply anywhere.

 

[Ulle97]

I think that Finestre will end all discussions in a few years.

I often thought of it as an option given it's relative proximity to France. It's been nearly 20 years since the Giro unleashed the Finestre, but the Tour seemingly won't go there as of yet.

Other than Sestrieres which of course is in Italy, are there any French climbs that could link with Finestre to make a decent stage?

 

[Netserk]

I often thought of it as an option given it's relative proximity to France. It's been nearly 20 years since the Giro unleashed the Finestre, but the Tour seemingly won't go there as of yet.

Other than Sestrieres which of course is in Italy, are there any French climbs that could link with Finestre to make a decent stage?

Cenis before and Montgenèvre afterwards. Finish at the latter or in Briançon.

 

[houtdffan]

I often thought of it as an option given it's relative proximity to France. It's been nearly 20 years since the Giro unleashed the Finestre, but the Tour seemingly won't go there as of yet.

Other than Sestrieres which of course is in Italy, are there any French climbs that could link with Finestre to make a decent stage?

yeah, Finestre, Sestrieres, Montgenevre uphill finish in Briancon

Or Finestre, Sestrieres, Mont Cenis, Telegraph

 

[Netserk]

This is how it'd look with the 2005 finish in Briançon:

Saint-Jean-de-Maurienne > Briançon

182.0 km, +5367 m. Bike ride in Villargondran, Auvergne-Rhône-Alpes

ridewithgps.com

You could also have a Serre Chevalier finish like in the 2017 Tour.

 

[houtdffan]

This is how it'd look with the 2005 finish in Briançon:

Saint-Jean-de-Maurienne > Briançon

182.0 km, +5367 m. Bike ride in Villargondran, Auvergne-Rhône-Alpes

ridewithgps.com

You could also have a Serre Chevalier finish like in the 2017 Tour.

far better stage between the cities

Mollard, Galiber, Montvergine (west) Finestre, Sestreiers, Montvergine (east), upfill finish in Briancon

or if you didn't want to do 2 trips over the montvergine

st francios longchamps, mollard, mont cenis, finestre, sestreiers, montgvergine, uphill Briancon