Tour of California 2012

[offbyone]

Route released:
http://www.amgentourofcalifornia.com/Route/stages.html

IMO this is a disappointment. They added more mountains but not decisive ones. When mountains are in the middle of the race they rarely impact the result.

The sierra road stage which proved decisive last year was removed. They brought back the big bear stage which is a total joke. The climb is only tough enough to thin out the herd no more and then it is neutralized by the 15K of flat.

The only decisive stages are Mt. Baldy and the time trial.

The most frustrating aspect is they supposedly added Mt Diablo to the race on Stage 3 based on the request of the fans, but do you really think people requested this thinking it would be in the middle of the course? Put a summit finish there.

The mountainous additions will make for good training for the riders, but without summit finishes it doesn't make this race anymore exciting than watching the riders train. I find this to be another case where they put a higher emphasis on sponsorship dollars from start and finish cities rather than making a good race. The Tour of Cali is no longer the only top pro stage race in the US. With Colorado and Utah race continuing to gain prominence, they better up their game if they want to make this the race it could be.

 

[Fetisoff]

 

[Fetisoff]

 

[Mellow Velo]

At first glance, not even up to last year's standard.
Very disappointing.

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

IMO this is a disappointment.

Agree with pretty much all you wrote, for the same reasons.

This also continues to be a Tour of Southwest California for the most part. I realize the financial difficulties of heading out beyond that, but at some point they're going to have to take a leap of faith and head further out into the state where the most spectacular scenery is, coupled with the most dramatic/difficult terrain. They may not get the same crowds, no, but even having a couple stages start north or east, and work their way south/west, it would showcase the state in ways that could reciprocally reap good returns in the future for the race, and the state itself.

 

[The Plediadian]

Route released:
http://www.amgentourofcalifornia.com/Route/stages.html

IMO this is a disappointment. They added more mountains but not decisive ones. When mountains are in the middle of the race they rarely impact the result.

The sierra road stage which proved decisive last year was removed. They brought back the big bear stage which is a total joke. The climb is only tough enough to thin out the herd no more and then it is neutralized by the 15K of flat.

The only decisive stages are Mt. Baldy and the time trial.

The most frustrating aspect is they supposedly added Mt Diablo to the race on Stage 3 based on the request of the fans, but do you really think people requested this thinking it would be in the middle of the course? Put a summit finish there.

The mountainous additions will make for good training for the riders, but without summit finishes it doesn't make this race anymore exciting than watching the riders train. I find this to be another case where they put a higher emphasis on sponsorship dollars from start and finish cities rather than making a good race. The Tour of Cali is no longer the only top pro stage race in the US. With Colorado and Utah race continuing to gain prominence, they better up their game if they want to make this the race it could be.

Diablo seems an easy climb, a railroad gradient, however when raced at speed it can be made as hard as one wants.
Being adjacent to the SF Bay Area, and having easy access,(for instance BART being only 10 miles from the base of climb,) make it easy for individuals to cycle to the top of climb after taking the train with bikes.
Coleman Valley has 13 percent grades in parts, and if the race is going towards Santa Rosa from the coast over Coleman Valley the climb will shatter the field, on its way to San Francisco.

 

[skidmark]

There are more articles on cyclingnews about the Tour of California then there are responses to this thread. I think that sums up the level of excitement about the parcours.

 

[Froome19]

Route released:
http://www.amgentourofcalifornia.com/Route/stages.html

IMO this is a disappointment. They added more mountains but not decisive ones. When mountains are in the middle of the race they rarely impact the result.

The sierra road stage which proved decisive last year was removed. They brought back the big bear stage which is a total joke. The climb is only tough enough to thin out the herd no more and then it is neutralized by the 15K of flat.

The only decisive stages are Mt. Baldy and the time trial.

The most frustrating aspect is they supposedly added Mt Diablo to the race on Stage 3 based on the request of the fans, but do you really think people requested this thinking it would be in the middle of the course? Put a summit finish there.

The mountainous additions will make for good training for the riders, but without summit finishes it doesn't make this race anymore exciting than watching the riders train. I find this to be another case where they put a higher emphasis on sponsorship dollars from start and finish cities rather than making a good race. The Tour of Cali is no longer the only top pro stage race in the US. With Colorado and Utah race continuing to gain prominence, they better up their game if they want to make this the race it could be.

Indeed its a bit disappointing but you must remember that the ATOC has never really been that mountaineous and decisive only last year they upped the game and asides from sierra navada its the same as last year with diablo to replace it (albeit not as a finish). Admittedly more could be done and the route isn't great yet you shouldn't really expect anything more from the ATOC as it isn't really an all that decisive race and though inroads are being made it seems like the organizers are a little hesitant to ramp up the difficulty that high.
At least they kept Baldy in, it should separate the men from the boys and give us a deseving winner at the very least.

 

[The Hitch]

There are more articles on cyclingnews about the Tour of California then there are responses to this thread. I think that sums up the level of excitement about the parcours.

And it sums up just how in bed cn is with their favourite race.

No matter what happens in this race it is already guaranteed to appear in the both the "race of the year" and "moment of the year" categories for the cn readers poll.

 

[montel]

Santa Cruz Stage not as hard

The Santa Cruz stage isn't near as hard as the past verisons - and the prediction is a 50-80 man group will come to the finish in Aptos at Cabrillo College. It will be impossible to have a small group hold off a pack from the top of Bear Creek to Aptos...Depending on when live coverage starts they should get some of Bonny Doon, Empire Grade KOM at least - and some great decending footage. Might be better to watch this stage at the finish or on the couch.

Even the steep climb on the back side of Cabrillo for an uphill sprint would shake things up just a little more. Sagan would win that pretty easily though.

I am not sure they will even "race" the Bonny Doon climb this year since it is 40+ miles from the finish.

The problem for Santa Cruz is none of the cities wanted the race...so they couldn't finish closer to a climb and/or on the ocean.

UCSC denied the race as well since it is during school. If it was on a weekend it could have dropped down Bonny Doon and gone up one of the climbs in the campus for a uphill finish with the ocean as a backdrop.

------

For San Jose I was hoping for a short fast climbing stage with Mt. Hamilton. A finish on Diablo would have been great. I was thinking of going to see that stage and am now thinking I won't. The problem is the Cities have to pay a lot of money for the stages and they don't want it out on some climb away from downtown.

 

[gustienordic]

And it sums up just how in bed cn is with their favourite race.

No matter what happens in this race it is already guaranteed to appear in the both the "race of the year" and "moment of the year" categories for the cn readers poll.

The route most likely won't even be that good for making exciting racing. What is it with the theory that a mountain 40 miles from the end adds excitement? Bunch sprint. If you wanna get people to race up a mountain put it within 10km of the end.

 

[Race Radio]

As much as it would be fun to see some crazy hard course the reality is most the domestic Pro's would be shelled. 99% of the on form Euro Pro will be at the Giro and the rest will be in Cali for training.

the key thing is to get lots of fans on the route and some beautiful Ariel shots for the tourist business.....it looks like accomplished it

 

[The Plediadian]

As much as it would be fun to see some crazy hard course the reality is most the domestic Pro's would be shelled. 99% of the on form Euro Pro will be at the Giro and the rest will be in Cali for training.

the key thing is to get lots of fans on the route and some beautiful Ariel shots for the tourist business.....it looks like accomplished it

How come Bert Grabsch was dropped badly. That is 25 minutes from the start. I saw poor Bert resplendent in his German colors 7 minutes off the main field. on the second itty bitty climb leaving from Seaside last year. How com Thor dropped out??

 

[offbyone]

Agree with pretty much all you wrote, for the same reasons.

This also continues to be a Tour of Southwest California for the most part. I realize the financial difficulties of heading out beyond that, but at some point they're going to have to take a leap of faith and head further out into the state where the most spectacular scenery is, coupled with the most dramatic/difficult terrain. They may not get the same crowds, no, but even having a couple stages start north or east, and work their way south/west, it would showcase the state in ways that could reciprocally reap good returns in the future for the race, and the state itself.

I agree california has a lot to offer and they are barely tapping into it. I especially think this is relevant if they aren't focused on make the course hard. They could then at least add variety. There are so many amazing roads they could be doing. Maybe my hopes are too high, but for instance since they first started having the race I always dreamed that one day they will do something amazing like have a summit finish on Tioga Pass. Or at least somewhere in the high sierra.

As much as it would be fun to see some crazy hard course the reality is most the domestic Pro's would be shelled. 99% of the on form Euro Pro will be at the Giro and the rest will be in Cali for training.

the key thing is to get lots of fans on the route and some beautiful Ariel shots for the tourist business.....it looks like accomplished it

I am not looking for crazy hard just one that would really let the riders ride. Having a course with only 2 decisive days is kind of a waste in my mind.

I live in cali and know a lot of people that attend the race and they all attend with hopes of seeing the pro tour riders fighting it out. The domestics are an afterthought. The race is also promoted as being an international race. Not too mention, there is a lot more money available for the real pros.

 

[Eric8-A]

I don't know if it's too much, but I would love for the organizers to incorporate the San Francisco Grand Prix route into a stage at the ATOC.

 

[Race Radio]

How come Bert Grabsch was dropped badly. That is 25 minutes from the start. I saw poor Bert resplendent in his German colors 7 minutes off the main field. on the second itty bitty climb leaving from Seaside last year. How com Thor dropped out??

As I said, many of the Pro's are there for training. A guy like Grabsch likely took some time off after the classics and Cali was likely one of his first races back. It would not be unusual to find him off the back if he is not trying for the GC or working for someone. Thor was sick.

 

[Race Radio]

I live in cali and know a lot of people that attend the race and they all attend with hopes of seeing the pro tour riders fighting it out. The domestics are an afterthought. The race is also promoted as being an international race. Not too mention, there is a lot more money available for the real pros.

I live in Cali as well.

There will only be 4-6 guys fighting for the GC. Those decisive days shred the field and reduce the race to those few guys.

I would much rather see a couple big stages surrounded by stages with short, sharp climbs and lots of attacking. Also a couple days for the sprinters. It seems we have that this year.

 

[Fetisoff]

I live in Cali as well.

There will only be 4-6 guys fighting for the GC. Those decisive days shred the field and reduce the race to those few guys.

I would much rather see a couple big stages surrounded by stages with short, sharp climbs and lots of attacking. Also a couple days for the sprinters. It seems we have that this year.

Yeah, but you don't want TOC becoming like a tour of Romandie either, do you? Where you have 20 guys within 20-30 seconds of each other, and then the final time trial comes along

 

[The Plediadian]

As I said, many of the Pro's are there for training. A guy like Grabsch likely took some time off after the classics and Cali was likely one of his first races back. It would not be unusual to find him off the back if he is not trying for the GC or working for someone. Thor was sick.

I kinda knew that. Sorry they came into the race sick or tired. Guys riding the classics have gotta be hurting in MAY. I liked the earlier time slot of the ToC, starting during a 3 day weekend in February, for good crowds, most people are working during the week stages in May. Having the stages around Santa Cruz, SF and Santa Rosa will draw a lotta cycling fans. Since I live in Northern Ca. I don't know the remoteness, or interest in cycling of the So. Cal stages.

 

[Eric8-A]

I don't know the remoteness, or interest in cycling of the So. Cal stages.

There was a great turnout when the time trial was in DTLA. Shockingly, I saw no hipsters that day. Not sure if it's going to be the same this year.

 

[The Plediadian]

There was a great turnout when the time trial was in DTLA. Shockingly, I saw no hipsters that day. Not sure if it's going to be the same this year.

In contrast I was at Palo Alto/ Stanford TT and there was a huge crowd.
The area is highly educated and has a cycling tradition. Actually anywhere in the SF Bay Area, and adding Sonoma/ Santa Rosa and Santa Cruz people will come to cheer.

 

[offbyone]

I live in Cali as well.

There will only be 4-6 guys fighting for the GC. Those decisive days shred the field and reduce the race to those few guys.

I would much rather see a couple big stages surrounded by stages with short, sharp climbs and lots of attacking. Also a couple days for the sprinters. It seems we have that this year.

I hear you. I guess my point of view is that if they want the race to draw a more competitive field where more riders are targeting the race, then they need to make it a race regarded higher by the pro cycling community. You don't do that with a soft ball course. Right now I think many pro riders see the tour of california as a vacation race and I hear more reports of riders out partying than accounts of riders fighting it out on the course.

Also, they are advertising the race as a being mountainous but there is only one summit finish. It also kills me that the most exciting stage last year, the sierra road stage was removed and replaced with big bear which was about as boring as they come the year before. It is pretty ironic because all the press coined sierra road stage last year as a monument style stage and then they drop it. Velonews even gave it the "most exciting day of US racing" award.
Also I guess because of my local nature, it is very frustrating to me personally to see rides i have ridden and know can be decisive like diablo or even patterson pass in the course but not in any way that will affect the race outcome.

Anyways, racing of any kind is better than no racing so cheers to that...

 

[skidmark]

I live in Cali as well.

There will only be 4-6 guys fighting for the GC. Those decisive days shred the field and reduce the race to those few guys.

I would much rather see a couple big stages surrounded by stages with short, sharp climbs and lots of attacking. Also a couple days for the sprinters. It seems we have that this year.

You're right, of course. It's a good route for what the Tour is: a 1.HC US domestic race with some international riders that's good training and a good showcase for a variety of riders. I'll watch it and be stoked, just like I was for Utah and Colorado last year. The number of CN articles today was a little annoying, though, so I'm in a bit of backlash mode, as I'm sure a few people are.

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

As noted before, in this and other threads, a lot of this is about money. Keeping the race financially stable. The only way they are going to get to the heart of the Sierras, or further north is if they potentially eat 1-2 stages financially, with a short transfer (hopefully no more than 100 miles), and the following stage short, or relatively easy. It's a real risk because they're gambling it will increase the value of the race, and increase exposure to the state's beauty in the long run. Just as a hypothetical:

Stage 3: Bakersfield to Indian Wells.
Stage 4: Indian Wells to Horseshow Meadows (or Whitney Portal, Onion Valley Rd). That evening, a transfer back to Indian Wells.
Stage 5: Indian Wells to Lancaster.

OR

Stage 3: Sacramento to South Lake Tahoe
Stage 4: South Lake Tahoe to Alpine Lake/Pacific Grade, or Tioga Pass. Transfer to Stockton(or Modesto) that night.
Stage 5: Stockton to San Jose

It could work, the teams may grumble, but it would create some spectacular scenery, and a climb up something like Onion Valley Road could blow the entire peloton to pieces.

You want spectacular aerial shots of real California, with real climbing, imagine a stage ending on Mt. Shasta's Everett Memorial Highway. But it's not going to happen. You're over 200 miles north of Sacramento. The transfers would be brutal, and they aren't going to race on I-5. Let alone the 300 miles of backroads between small towns with not enough hotels to board everyone.

Yes, For some 97% of the pros it is a training race. A few top Americans will ride it to win, maybe someone else, but that's basically it.

 

[The Plediadian]

As noted before, in this and other threads, a lot of this is about money. Keeping the race financially stable. The only way they are going to get to the heart of the Sierras, or further north is if they potentially eat 1-2 stages financially, with a short transfer (hopefully no more than 100 miles), and the following stage short, or relatively easy. It's a real risk because they're gambling it will increase the value of the race, and increase exposure to the state's beauty in the long run. Just as a hypothetical:

Stage 3: Bakersfield to Indian Wells.
Stage 4: Indian Wells to Horseshow Meadows (or Whitney Portal, Onion Valley Rd). That evening, a transfer back to Indian Wells.
Stage 5: Indian Wells to Lancaster.

OR

Stage 3: Sacramento to South Lake Tahoe
Stage 4: South Lake Tahoe to Alpine Lake/Pacific Grade, or Tioga Pass. Transfer to Stockton(or Modesto) that night.
Stage 5: Stockton to San Jose

It could work, the teams may grumble, but it would create some spectacular scenery, and a climb up something like Onion Valley Road could blow the entire peloton to pieces.

You want spectacular aerial shots of real California, with real climbing, imagine a stage ending on Mt. Shasta's Everett Memorial Highway. But it's not going to happen. You're over 200 miles north of Sacramento. The transfers would be brutal, and they aren't going to race on I-5. Let alone the 300 miles of backroads between small towns with not enough hotels to board everyone.

Yes, For some 97% of the pros it is a training race. A few top Americans will ride it to win, maybe someone else, but that's basically it.

Stovepipe wells to the Whitney portal, and Bishop to the top of Tioga Pass would make any pro cyclist pant. You are talking 14000 ft climbing per day at altitude, multiple passes and incredibly well engineered glassy roads. Very fast roads with big climbs.