Tour of Poland (history)

[The Hitch]

exactly if it was cus the race is good or has potential or history how on earth would the volta be less important then the tour of california or tour of turkey or tour o poland or all those races no1 cares about but apparently are better then the volta(a race older then the vuelta)

If you dont know what you are talking about, you can come out looking stupid.

Volta a Portugal is only 1 year older than Tour of Poland

1927 and 1928

And while there are millions of races in Western Europe, Tour of Poland was always the biggest race in the other half of the continent - the Eastern Half. The bigger half.

It makes perfect sence that the UCI gave a race East of Rome PT status for once.

 

[Parrulo]

If you dont know what you are talking about, you can come out looking stupid.

Volta a Portugal is only 1 year older than Tour of Poland

1927 and 1928

And while there are millions of races in Western Europe, Tour of Poland was always the big race for majority of the continent - the Eastern Half.

It makes perfect sence that the UCI gave a race East of Rome PT status for once.

*sigh

really is there a need to go right into calling some1 stupid? i was expecting more from you. . . anyway let me explain you like if you are a 6 year so you don't misunderstand what i said.

Originally Posted by Parrulo View Post
exactly if it was cus the race is good or has potential or history how on earth would the volta(this is just an example of one of many races who are ignored by the uci for money reasons, i could have said the vuelta a columbia and many others but since the volta used to be called the 4th GT it kind of is an obvious choice here) be less important then the tour of california or tour of turkey or tour o poland or all those races no1 cares(again just examples i could have said eneco tour instead of poland and you would prolly never raged) are better then the volta(a race older then the vuelta)

btw if in your mind the tour of poland is a better race then the volta. . . then you are delusional.

but i suppose I could riff a list of things that I care as little about as the tour of Poland. Lemme see, uhh…. Low-carb diets. Michael Moore. The Republican National Convention. Kabbalah and all Kabbalah-related products. Hi-def TV, the Bush daughters, wireless hot spots, ‘The O.C.’, the U.N., recycling, getting Punk’d, Danny Gans, the Latin Grammys, the real Grammys. Jeff, that Wiggle who sleeps too darn much! The Yankees payroll, all the red states, all the blue states, every hybrid car, every talk show host! Everything on the planet, everything in the solar system, everything everything everything everything everything everything–eve–everything that exists — past, present and future, in all discovered and undiscovered dimensions. Oh! And Hugh Jackman.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

If you dont know what you are talking about, you can come out looking stupid.

Volta a Portugal is only 1 year older than Tour of Poland

1927 and 1928

And while there are millions of races in Western Europe, Tour of Poland was always the biggest race in the other half of the continent - the Eastern Half. The bigger half.

It makes perfect sence that the UCI gave a race East of Rome PT status for once.

OK, Hitch, you have some points but there's a couple of things I need to take up with you here.
1) Eastern Europe may be bigger but it is much more sparsely populated, which is always worth bearing in mind in such comparisons
2) The Tour of Poland was NOT always the biggest race in the other half of the continent. The Peace Race was.

The Eastern European races have suffered in terms of their credibility post-1990, possibly because of the fact that they were entirely amateur events for most of Soviet-dominated Europe's history (and certainly a level of élitism on the part of Western Europe). The Tour of Poland has definitely been the race that has survived the best, thanks to the UCI's status. But no way on earth was it bigger than the Friedensfahrt.

I like where they've been headed with the Tour of Poland in the last couple of years. Making it a tougher race. But then you always have the problem of truly being a Tour of Poland when almost all of the most interesting terrain is in the far south (similar problems were had by the Deutschlandtour, which often featured its queen stage finishing in Austria).

I'd love to see them climb Przełęcz Karkonoska to the border crossing at Špindlerova Bouha:

But I fear it's a bit too isolated and small (and probably would tear the race up a bit too much, whereas I think they struck the balance quite well in 2010):

the summit:

some of the most painful climbing:

 

[El Pistolero]

They should ditch Poland and do some races in the Balkan instead

Very mountainous area, not high mountains, but lot's and lot's of them. I'm guessing the balkan also has lot's of bad roads making racing all the more difficult.

 

[The Hitch]

*sigh

really is there a need to go right into calling some1 stupid? i was expecting more from you. . . anyway let me explain you like if you are a 6 year so you don't misunderstand what i said.

I think its you who misunderstood what i said, or maybe, misunderstood what you had said yourself, sweetheart

exactly if it was cus the race is good or has potential or history how on earth would the volta be less important then the tour of california or tour of turkey or tour o poland or all those races no1 cares about

So what you are saying is

1 Volta has history ( i agree)
2 Tour of Poland doesnt
3 Tour of Poland is not important
4 Tour of Polands history and prestige are equal to that of Cali and turkey

And you act surprised that the word "stupid" comes up in a responce to that post Wow.

i could have said eneco tour instead of poland and you would prolly never raged

Well duh
Because the eneco tour and its predeccesor the tour of netherlands has far less history that the tour of Poland


The Tour of Poland is ALSO older than the Vuelta mate, so when looking for weak targets, its probably not wise to pick on somebody your own size.

And if you are going to go round comparing the history of Poland (started interwar period) to Cali (started inter Lance period) then you are going to need to expect to be called worse things than stupid, sweetheart.

Your actually going to need to grow that thick skin pretty quickly, snake like with what im about to show you.

Because this is my responce to

Tour of Poland....no1 cares about

Volta a Portugal

Tour of Poland

Which one has significantly more interest on these boards?

but i suppose I could riff a list of things that I care as little about as the tour of Poland. Lemme see, uhh…. Low-carb diets. Michael Moore. The Republican National Convention. Kabbalah and all Kabbalah-related products. Hi-def TV, the Bush daughters, wireless hot spots, ‘The O.C.’, the U.N., recycling, getting Punk’d, Danny Gans, the Latin Grammys, the real Grammys. Jeff, that Wiggle who sleeps too darn much! The Yankees payroll, all the red states, all the blue states, every hybrid car, every talk show host! Everything on the planet, everything in the solar system, everthing everything everything everything everything everything–eve–everything that exists — past, present and future, in all discovered and undiscovered dimensions. Oh! And Hugh Jackman.

You could have just posted the youtube link.

As i am about to do for my response.

You dont think the Tour of Poland is important

Is that what you think?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=chKf6eK-iLQ

 

[The Hitch]

OK, Hitch, you have some points but there's a couple of things I need to take up with you here.
1) Eastern Europe may be bigger but it is much more sparsely populated, which is always worth bearing in mind in such comparisonse

Im not sure that density is that important. Especially in cycling races which can cover great distances, and considering - tv/ internet to watch cycling races is unobstructed by distance

Also bare in mind that since the TDP started, mass genocides, holocoust and wars have wiped out much of the population. Far far far more than in the West

2) The Tour of Poland was NOT always the biggest race in thother half of the continent. The Peace Race was.

The Tour of Poland is a older race with more history. For 20 years before the Peace race it was the most important. For the last few years as well. A

And whats more Peace race had far more western guest teams coming in, while TDP was almost exclusively (with one or 2 exeptions) the Easterners not allowed to race in the West.

Last time round on the coverage old racers were telling stories about how in their time the Russians would try to sabotage the local riders, knock off the drink stands etc. It was very important back then.

They should ditch Poland and do some races in the Balkan instead

Or alternatively ditch one of those Flemish cobbled races. Or those Belgian stage races

Is that Tour of Wallone thing still around? that could work

 

[El Pistolero]

Im not sure that density is that important. Especially in cycling races which can cover great distances, and considering - tv/ internet to watch cycling races is unobstructed by distance

Also bare in mind that since the TDP started, mass genocides, holocoust and wars have wiped out much of the population. Far far far more than in the West



The Tour of Poland is a older race with more history. For 20 years before the Peace race it was the most important. For the last few years as well. A

And whats more Peace race had far more western guest teams coming in, while TDP was almost exclusively (with one or 2 exeptions) the Easterners not allowed to race in the West.

Last time round on the coverage old racers were telling stories about how in their time the Russians would try to sabotage the local riders, knock off the drink stands etc. It was very important back then.



Or alternatively ditch one of those Flemish cobbled races. Or those Belgian stage races

Is that Tour of Wallone thing still around? that could work

I don't watch races like the Tour de Wallonie or Dwars door Vlaanderen, so by my guest

Tour de Belgique > Tour de Pologne though. And we don't have to fake a French name to sound cool

 

[The Hitch]

Tour de Belgique > Tour de Pologne though. And we don't have to fake a French name to sound cool

Since we are talking (a bit ) about Eastern Europe, 1 lesson i learned from was to Hitler not fight 2 wars at once.

So i will ignore your Belgique bait as i wait to see whether Mr Portugal understands the concept of 1928 being an earlier date than 2006

 

[El Pistolero]

Im not sure that density is that important. Especially in cycling races which can cover great distances, and considering - tv/ internet to watch cycling races is unobstructed by distance

Also bare in mind that since the TDP started, mass genocides, holocoust and wars have wiped out much of the population. Far far far more than in the West



The Tour of Poland is a older race with more history. For 20 years before the Peace race it was the most important. For the last few years as well. A

And whats more Peace race had far more western guest teams coming in, while TDP was almost exclusively (with one or 2 exeptions) the Easterners not allowed to race in the West.

Last time round on the coverage old racers were telling stories about how in their time the Russians would try to sabotage the local riders, knock off the drink stands etc. It was very important back then.



Or alternatively ditch one of those Flemish cobbled races. Or those Belgian stage races

Is that Tour of Wallone thing still around? that could work

I don't watch races like the Tour de Wallonie or Dwars door Vlaanderen, so be my guest

All I care for of the Flemish races are the Omloop, E3 Prijs Vlaanderen, Gent-Wevelgem, Ronde van Vlaanderen, Paris-Roubaix(the whole Nord pas de Calais département is Flemish to me ) and Tour de Belgique/Ronde van België.



Tour de Belgique > Tour de Pologne though. And we don't have to fake a French name to sound cool

ps: I'm just baiting you

 

[The Hitch]

Tour de Belgique > Tour de Pologne though. And we don't have to fake a French name to sound cool

Since we are talking (a bit ) about Eastern Europe, 1 lesson i learned from was to Hitler not fight 2 wars at once.

So i will ignore your Belgique bait as i wait to see whether Mr Portugal understands the concept of 1928 being an earlier date than 2006

NO ONE CONCEALS MY POSTS

 

[Libertine Seguros]

They should ditch Poland and do some races in the Balkan instead

Very mountainous area, not high mountains, but lot's and lot's of them. I'm guessing the balkan also has lot's of bad roads making racing all the more difficult.

I think Romania (with Pasul Balea, 31km @ 4,7%; Pasul Urdele, 28km @ 6,0%, and Transfăgărăsăn, 25km @ 4,7%) may be the best bet there.

Greece would probably be pretty good too, a lot of mountains to use.

And if you are going to go round comparing the history of Poland (started interwar period) to Cali (started inter Lance period) then you are going to need to expect to be called worse things than stupid, sweetheart.

Your actually going to need to grow that thick skin pretty quickly, snake like with what im about to show you.

To be fair though, the rising and falling of the prestige of the Tour de Pologne means that it could be felt like the present incarnation of it is a relatively recent development, after the initial post-1990 fall in status of most of the Eastern bloc races. I made the mistake of thinking the Tour of Turkey was a new race because of the shift in status recently, so I can see where the mistake may come for somebody for whom the Tour of Poland was not on their radar until it was ProTour.

Because this is my responce to

Volta a Portugal

Tour of Poland

Which one has significantly more interest on these boards?

But then, these boards have a regional bias - the TDU is not a more prestigious or historic race than either of these races, but often gets more responses. Colombia is one of the most prestigious of them all, but merits little mention in comparison to many European events. And California got about a bazillion responses and threads.

The other point is how the races run. The Tour de Pologne, I seem to recall, has some very good coverage, think I saw them interviewing people like Szmyd and Rutkiewicz in seats by the caravans in 2009. But it definitely isn't as clearly Polish as the Volta is definitely Portuguese; the ProTour position means that it gets the bigger teams, but few who legitimately target it. With CCC now being ProContinental and eligible for a wildcard I would hope for them AND a national team for that purpose - Portugal has a lesser big name lineup but a lot of people who genuinely target the race and for whom it is the #1 moment of their season.

Im not sure that density is that important. Especially in cycling races which can cover great distances, and considering - tv/ internet to watch cycling races is unobstructed by distance

Also bare in mind that since the TDP started, mass genocides, holocoust and wars have wiped out much of the population. Far far far more than in the West

The population was already far less dense before that. But more towns and places willing to host races means more options for smaller races, regional races, big one day races and so on.

The Tour of Poland is a older race with more history. For 20 years before the Peace race it was the most important. For the last few years as well. A

And whats more Peace race had far more western guest teams coming in, while TDP was almost exclusively (with one or 2 exeptions) the Easterners not allowed to race in the West.

But the Volta a Catalunya is an older race with more history than the Vuelta. Doesn't make it more important now - same with the Tour of Poland during the heyday of the Peace Race. It was very important, but the Peace Race was just that bit more important. I'm not slighting the Tour of Poland, but I feel your mostly justified defence of your race has led you to make claims that are slightly exaggerated.

The Volta a Portugal has (slightly) more history than the Tour of Poland.

It has spent quite a long time being seen as relatively provincial.

It has not seen a lot of character be totally shifted by the ProTour.

The Tour of Poland is still important because of its history and prestige to some riders, but sadly for many - especially new teams - its only importance is as a source of UCI points.

 

[Barrus]

Tour du Pologne

Just keep it kind and civil

 

[The Hitch]

General ignorance about some races

Delete


.......

 

[sublimit]

Just keep it kind and civil

Where did this thread come from?? What a surprise to see the Hitch still arguing with people haha.
Perhaps he gets paid for the amount of people who's nerves he gets on.

 

[The Hitch]

Where did this thread come from?? What a surprise to see the Hitch still arguing with people haha.
Perhaps he gets paid for the amount of people who's nerves he gets on.

Actually this thread is just a selection of posts moved from another thread.

It was not started by me but rather by Parrulo claiming the TDP had no history, without releasing it was created in 1928.


Once again you comment on something without knowing the story

I warned you about that before, but then you dont strike me as the type to live n learn.

Now do you have a contribution to this thread, or is this just another of your many petty, not cycling related, attacks against me that randomly appear in various threads?

 

[sublimit]

Actually this thread is just a selection of posts moved from another thread.

It was not started by me but rather by Parrulo claiming the TDP had no history, without releasing it was created in 1928.


Once again you comment on something without knowing the story

I warned you about that before, but then you dont strike me as the type to live n learn.

Now do you have a contribution to this thread, or is this just another of your many petty, not cycling related, attacks against me that randomly appear in various threads?

Warned me lol. I'm sooo sorry for wasting your time...

Ok if you stop derailing threads I'll back off. Thanks for your input on the Omloop thread BTW- basically rubbishing it and going on about Paris-Nice but you didnt mention The Zoncolan so I give you that.

 

[Parrulo]

i have nothing else to add

p.s. i may just say how this started. i gave poland as a general example and the hitch took that as an offense and completely raged aka became the perfect troll subject.

Originally Posted by El Pistolero
Tour de Belgique > Tour de Pologne though. And we don't have to fake a French name to sound cool

hahahahahah win

 

[The Hitch]

Agreed

i have nothing else to add

p.s. i may just say how this started. i gave poland as a general example and the hitch took that as an offense and completely raged aka became the perfect troll subject.



hahahahahah win

All right ill offer you a hand.

I always liked the Volta, especially as its a 14 day race, and it does have history. Lots of it. It certainly is far more deserving of uci ranking than Cali, Eneco, TDU etc etc etc.

Personally i would give Volta Pt status over either Dauphine or Paris Nice. I know they have history too but France, and especially Paris has too many races in my opinion. They also have Paris Tours and Paris Roubaix.

Hell i would give Volta 4th gt, but we all know that needs to go to Colombia

Critiscise any race that was created after 1928 all you want.
Just stay clear of the TDP (other than saying how amazing it is) and well be fine

 

[sublimit]

protip: you are not the troll hitch

i have nothing else to add

p.s. i may just say how this started. i gave poland as a general example and the hitch took that as an offense and completely raged aka became the perfect troll subject.



hahahahahah win

Yes well Its difficult to put the Hitch on ignore because all the threads fall apart. Every thread is derailed with his off topic BS hence me turning into a troll here.

 

[Fester]

A race is as good as the riders make it. Sure the Tour de France is ancient and loaded with history and is mostly a very boring for most of the last decade. Some sh!t small races have brilliant riding and can be tactically splendid.

In terms of Poland, I am not sure it has the strong domestic scene that Portugal up until recently had. Remember that in 2008 there nine pro teams in Portugal, all with cards to play and betting on the Volta. Poland does and did not have this. Also in Portugal the Volta is a massive event dominating TV rating for it's duration and attracting 2m people to the road sides.

But I agree that to the novice cycling enthusiast Poland might seem brilliant. And it has good racing, and it's on Eurosport, etc, etc.

 

[Willy_Voet]

A race is as good as the riders make it. Sure the Tour de France is ancient and loaded with history and is mostly a very boring for most of the last decade. Some sh!t small races have brilliant riding and can be tactically splendid.

Brilliant racing in Portugal?! We should take this to the clinic.

 

[craig1985]

Hitch, I love Poland and I want to go back there.

 

[El Pistolero]

Since we are talking (a bit ) about Eastern Europe, 1 lesson i learned from was to Hitler not fight 2 wars at once.

So i will ignore your Belgique bait as i wait to see whether Mr Portugal understands the concept of 1928 being an earlier date than 2006

NO ONE CONCEALS MY POSTS

Come'on attack Belgium and the Soviet Union(Peace race) at the same time. See what happens

 

[Fester]

Brilliant racing in Portugal?! We should take this to the clinic.

Ah yes, LA/MSS and Liberty Seguros, brilliant racing for sure and just as brilliant as Cofidis circa 2004, US/Postal-Discovery Channel c.98-05, Liberty Seguros (the spaniards), Telkom 96-06, etc, etc, etc