• The Cycling News forum is looking to add some volunteer moderators with Red Rick's recent retirement. If you're interested in helping keep our discussions on track, send a direct message to @SHaines here on the forum, or use the Contact Us form to message the Community Team.

    In the meanwhile, please use the Report option if you see a post that doesn't fit within the forum rules.

    Thanks!

Tour punishing Cavendish?

Jul 15, 2010
44
0
0
Visit site
I can't help but wonder if this the tour organizers - finding a way to punish a team and rider (Cavendish) that they don't like?

(From Renshaw Out Post: Did JD follow his line? Read what Petacchi said, "I saw Renshaw going head to head with Julian Dean but I also saw Dean trying to box Renshaw in." He had a front row seat, you didn't... Some early posted, I think there right - this decision makes sprinting more dangerous, it means that if your getting pushed up against the barriers - to bad. I can't help but wonder if this the tour organizers - finding a way to punish a team and rider (Cavendish) that they don't like?)
 
May 13, 2009
3,093
3
0
Visit site
TahoeNL said:
I can't help but wonder if this the tour organizers - finding a way to punish a team and rider (Cavendish) that they don't like?

(From Renshaw Out Post: Did JD follow his line? Read what Petacchi said, "I saw Renshaw going head to head with Julian Dean but I also saw Dean trying to box Renshaw in." He had a front row seat, you didn't... Some early posted, I think there right - this decision makes sprinting more dangerous, it means that if your getting pushed up against the barriers - to bad. I can't help but wonder if this the tour organizers - finding a way to punish a team and rider (Cavendish) that they don't like?)

The TdF has not punished Cavendish today. Why should they, he didn't do anything wrong.
 
Jun 9, 2009
403
1
0
Visit site
The Tour has provided an arena in which Cavendish has become a star. Cavendish's stardom has helped to make the Tour an exciting, premier sporting event. The two have helped each other tremendously.

According to organizers, Renshaw's tactics were overly aggressive and possibly dangerous.

There have been many more crashes and injuries in this year's Tour than in previous years. The organizers want to see clean and safe racing. Renshaw's tactics were deemed unclean and unsafe.

It's a bummer for Cavendish. He rode within the rules, but will be denied a powerful team mate in the coming stages. I give Cavendish a lot of respect for the way he maintained composure in the post-race interview. The reporters tried everything to get him to be a jack-@ss, but he stayed cool. I hope he wins more stages.
 
Jun 15, 2009
353
0
0
Visit site
A conspiracy theory here is a bit of a stretch. The organizers DQ'd Renshaw for blatantly obvious behavior that they deemed inappropriate and unsafe. It is arguable that the punishment to Renshaw is more severe than it "should" be (whatever that means!) but:
1. The obvious lesser punishment - Relegation - don't mean s**t to a lead-out man.
2. The appearance of the behavior on TV, right at the end of the stage, was so blatant that they felt they had to take action given what millions of people had just watched. As has been discussed in another thread, Renshaw could have been way less blatant.

BTW agree solidly with many others' thoughts on Cav:
1. Won from waaay longer out than he is used to - damn strong!
2. Kept his cool post-race despite repeated baiting - nice to see

PS can we just add these few posts to the "Renshaw Out" thread?
 
Jun 18, 2009
1,225
1
0
Visit site
TahoeNL said:
I can't help but wonder if this the tour organizers - finding a way to punish a team and rider (Cavendish) that they don't like?

(From Renshaw Out Post: Did JD follow his line? Read what Petacchi said, "I saw Renshaw going head to head with Julian Dean but I also saw Dean trying to box Renshaw in." He had a front row seat, you didn't...


Tyler had an even better seat than Petacchi, and he didn't even see the headbutt until he saw it on the tape. What he did see was Renshaw sweep him into the barriers.

Also, that's some unbelievably selective quoting on your part. Right after that comment, Petacchi said he's have to look at the replay. And guess what, the replay is more accurate than your recollection of events going 70kph at a near full-out effort.

TahoeNL said:
Some early posted, I think there right - this decision makes sprinting more dangerous, it means that if your getting pushed up against the barriers - to bad.

I think that Dean did swerve a little, but Renshaw was no where close to the barriers. The first headbutt was fine, the repeated ones were over the top. The final wheel chop got him tossed from the race, deservedly so in my opinion. I see no possible way that this is making sprinting more dangerous.

The Tour would have no interest in punishing Cavendish. He's a high-profile rider, and the Tour likes its stars.
 
Jul 15, 2010
44
0
0
Visit site
"The Tour has provided an arena in which Cavendish has become a star. Cavendish's stardom has helped to make the Tour an exciting, premier sporting event. The two have helped each other tremendously."

L'Equipe (who has never been shy about who it likes and dislikes - Lance being the best example), is owned by the Amaury Group who owns the Tour. In years past they have set-up the course just to make it more difficult for a favored rider to succeed (adding more time-trials and less climbing or vise-versa). Never forget the Tour is interested in the Tour. Like any company they will take advantage of any situation that best serves theirs interests.
 
Aug 10, 2009
213
0
0
Visit site
TahoeNL said:
I can't help but wonder if this the tour organizers - finding a way to punish a team and rider (Cavendish) that they don't like?

ASO - the Tour organizer - certainly can boot riders out of its event. But in this case it wasn't the organizer it was the UCI Commissaires. In these cases the Commissaires act independent of the organizer and the organizer has no say in their rulings.

So, it maybe the UCI Commissaires have a hate-on for Cavendish and/or Renshaw or HTC... But I doubt that.

I think its more likely the incident happened in plain site, was a bit excessive, was followed up by another questionable move (when Renshaw proceeded to put Farrar in the barrieres) and the Commissaires felt they couldn't let it slide.

The sprints in this Tour are also getting a bit messy, and I wouldn't be surprised if Renshaw's penalty was also intended to be a general warning to the riders to play safe.

It was a certainly a tough call, but it was a fair call.

But don't make the mistake of thinking the organizer has had anything to do with this DQ. They didn't. If the media has reported it this way, it was an error.
 
Jul 15, 2010
44
0
0
Visit site
"I saw the video and I think it's a fair decision,' Vaughters told Cyclingnews.
-What POT-LICKER! No comment on Julian Dean's hooking? Come on Jonathan.
 
Jul 15, 2010
44
0
0
Visit site
who do you trust...

Who do you trust? Farrar (poor little Tyler... who can't confess when he's beat) or Renshaw?

Renshaw-
Julian came hard in on my position with his elbows. I needed to use my head to retain balance or there would have been a crash. If had used my elbows when Julian brought his elbow on top of mine we would also have crashed. The object was to hold my line and stay upright.

“I hadn’t started the sprint yet. We were still at 375 meters to go. After that Cavendish had to start his sprint early and I was also ready to finish off the sprint as I still had a lot left in my legs. It would have been good to try to take some more points. I only saw open space on my left. I had no idea Tyler Farrar was there. By no means would I ever put any of my fellow riders in danger.”
quoted from velonews...
 
Jul 15, 2010
44
0
0
Visit site
shouldawouldacoulda said:
ASO - the Tour organizer - certainly can boot riders out of its event. But in this case it wasn't the organizer it was the UCI Commissaires. In these cases the Commissaires act independent of the organizer and the organizer has no say in their rulings.

So, it maybe the UCI Commissaires have a hate-on for Cavendish and/or Renshaw or HTC... But I doubt that.

Great point! In fact you may be on the real dirt here... the UCI does have more unpleasant history then even ASO does!
 
Come on, everybody can see the difference between pushing someone with your head or leaning on him to retain your balance and keep your advantageous position, and repeatedly headbutting an opponent. As 131313 said, the first one could be OK, the others are overkill. And that, coupled with the nice move on Farrar, seals it for me.

Of course it's easier to blame it on the Tour or on Sarkozy if necessary, rather than on Renshaw.
 
Mar 14, 2009
10
0
0
Visit site
Renshaw disqualification.

From the TV overhead view it appears that Julien Dean moved across the line of Mark Renshaw and stuck his elbow out to prevent Renshaw passing, This can be seen easily by the road markings showing the straight line. Renshaw could have ended up in the barriers if he had not pushed Dean away and as the riders are not allowed to take their hands off the handlebars he used his head (literally).
When Mark Renshaw finished his leadout he eased to the side of the road and Farrar did take his hand off the handlebars to push Renshaw aside.
The first move, I think was justified (maybe a bit too hard) by possible stopping a major crash on the finish line, the second move I hope was only to get out of the was of the following riders. Other sprinters have been baulked by leadout men easing up.
 
Jul 15, 2010
44
0
0
Visit site
JTPato said:
From the TV overhead view it appears that Julien Dean moved across the line of Mark Renshaw and stuck his elbow out to prevent Renshaw passing, This can be seen easily by the road markings showing the straight line. Renshaw could have ended up in the barriers if he had not pushed Dean away and as the riders are not allowed to take their hands off the handlebars he used his head (literally).
When Mark Renshaw finished his leadout he eased to the side of the road and Farrar did take his hand off the handlebars to push Renshaw aside.
The first move, I think was justified (maybe a bit too hard) by possible stopping a major crash on the finish line, the second move I hope was only to get out of the was of the following riders. Other sprinters have been baulked by leadout men easing up.

Glad someone actually watch what happened! BRAVO. Your summary is right on!
 

SpartacusRox

BANNED
May 6, 2010
711
0
0
Visit site
131313 said:
Tyler had an even better seat than Petacchi, and he didn't even see the headbutt until he saw it on the tape. What he did see was Renshaw sweep him into the barriers.

Also, that's some unbelievably selective quoting on your part. Right after that comment, Petacchi said he's have to look at the replay. And guess what, the replay is more accurate than your recollection of events going 70kph at a near full-out effort.



I think that Dean did swerve a little, but Renshaw was no where close to the barriers. The first headbutt was fine, the repeated ones were over the top. The final wheel chop got him tossed from the race, deservedly so in my opinion. I see no possible way that this is making sprinting more dangerous.

The Tour would have no interest in punishing Cavendish. He's a high-profile rider, and the Tour likes its stars.

I agree, the headbutting was neither here nor there, what got him the deserved DQ was the blatant forcing of Farrar into the barriers. When Cavendish starts his move, Renshaw clearly looks over his shoulder and sees Farrar coming up on his inside and just moves straight across to block him, a purely cynical move that deserved the red card.

I have to say though that the Aussies are really starting to attain mastery of the headbutt. They have made some real progress since the crude attempts of Robbie Mac a few years ago on his fellow countryman, gaining further expertise via Cadel practicing on camera's to now being able to display multiple headbutts in rapid sequence! That's progress for you! Aussie Aussie Aussie Oi Oi Oi !!!:p
 

SpartacusRox

BANNED
May 6, 2010
711
0
0
Visit site
TahoeNL said:
Glad someone actually watch what happened! BRAVO. Your summary is right on!

Then you need to watch it again and you will see Renshaw look behind him, sees Farrar making his move to get on Cav's wheel and then moving straight across to block him. Only then did Farrar take his hand off the bar to push Renshaw aside.
 
SpartacusRox said:
Then you need to watch it again and you will see Renshaw look behind him, sees Farrar making his move to get on Cav's wheel and then moving straight across to block him. Only then did Farrar take his hand off the bar to push Renshaw aside.

yeah looks/looked pretty bad to me, might as well have grabbed his jersey as farrar passes him too.
 
TahoeNL said:
“I hadn’t started the sprint yet. We were still at 375 meters to go. After that Cavendish had to start his sprint early and I was also ready to finish off the sprint as I still had a lot left in my legs. It would have been good to try to take some more points.
quoted from velonews...

If he had a lot left in his legs then why not tow Cav to the last meter as per usual?

Cav had a hellofa good sprint today and I wish we only had his strong showing and others' weaker ones to talk about.
 
Jul 15, 2010
44
0
0
Visit site
SpartacusRox said:
Then you need to watch it again and you will see Renshaw look behind him, sees Farrar making his move to get on Cav's wheel and then moving straight across to block him. Only then did Farrar take his hand off the bar to push Renshaw aside.

Spart - it's clear that you ride a huffy (not the one the 7/11 boys rode). You'd of seen from the top angle that Renshaw couldn't see cry baby Tyler (Tyler was to far back). Put the training wheels on and watch again...
 
Jun 10, 2009
606
0
0
Visit site
SpartacusRox said:
Then you need to watch it again and you will see Renshaw look behind him, sees Farrar making his move to get on Cav's wheel and then moving straight across to block him. Only then did Farrar take his hand off the bar to push Renshaw aside.

I see that differently. Renshaw looks to his side, and sees a gap of more than a bike length behind Cavs back wheel. Farrar is at this point almost directly behind Renshaw, and he may or may not have seen him. Farrar has made the same look a moment earlier, and is closing quickly on Renshaw, and already moving left to try and get the wheel. Whether Renshaw saw him or not, both of them have to swing violently left to get on Cav's wheel. If Renshaw was dangerously and illegally deviating from his line, what was Farrar doing? Pot, kettle.

I think the concept that Farrar was going to sprint in a straight line, on his own, from that distance out, instead of going for the free wheel of the faster man, is ludicrous.

Farrar is like Evans - almost good enough to win;)