Training Wheel Set

[rdogwoof]

I am looking into getting a new training wheel set. Currently have a cheap Bontrager set. What I want is something with good durability and that can really take a beating. Weight not really important as long as its not a brick or a wheel.

I was looking at the Kyserium (Elite/Equipe) series but don't know much about the durability of the Mavic hubs. Has anyone had problems with these hubs or wheel set in general? Looking to spend around $500 (reasonable?).

Another option would be a custom wheel set with something like a DT Swiss hub (240 or below).

Any other recommendations are welcome too.

 

[Black Dog]

Go custom and get the Velocity rims that are 23mm wide or better yet the Hed Belgium rims; also 23mm wide.

 

[Anonymous]

try mavic Open Pros with duraace hubs...around 400...or get them with the ultegra hubs...even cheaper...very strong wheels...

 

[Head wind into the valley]

try mavic Open Pros with duraace hubs...around 400...or get them with the ultegra hubs...even cheaper...very strong wheels...

As above, 32-36 spokes, open bearings (not sealed), don't buy anything pre-built, find some bike weirdo that will spend a few days building them and you will not look back. Although wheel building is a dying art/science and good builders are hard to find.

 

[Hairy Wheels]

I agree with the above posters, handbuilt is the way to go. I would say however, that the new ultegra tubeless is a good way to go if you're going to go pre-built. 400 on ebay and I've had LONG life from the Hutchinson tires (the lower end ones....super durable). The ride quality is pretty good too, for a pre-built esp.

 

[Bustedknuckle]

I am looking into getting a new training wheel set. Currently have a cheap Bontrager set. What I want is something with good durability and that can really take a beating. Weight not really important as long as its not a brick or a wheel.

I was looking at the Kyserium (Elite/Equipe) series but don't know much about the durability of the Mavic hubs. Has anyone had problems with these hubs or wheel set in general? Looking to spend around $500 (reasonable?).

Another option would be a custom wheel set with something like a DT Swiss hub (240 or below).

Any other recommendations are welcome too.

Mavic rear hubs are junque. A poorer design doesn't exist among rear bicycle wheels. What has been mentioned, find a local, accomplished wheelbuilder that can design and build a wheelset specifically for you and your needs.

If nothing local, email this guy, he has been building wheels for decades, ships worldwide.

BTW-MailOrder places may have a DT 240 based wheelset for <$500 but these hubs are about $400, just for the hubs. Same for 7900 hubs(DuraAce).

peter@vecchios.com

 

[Hawkwood]

A year ago I got a local builder to make me some wheels with Ambrosio hubs, Ambrosio Excellight rims, and stainless spokes, 28 front and rear. The builder was concerned about them being 28, but despite being 85 kgs I've always been light on good wheels. Anyway over a year later and having hit some serious potholes they're fine. If you want to go tougher still try this combination with 32 holes.

 

[sublimit]

Ambrosio Excellent rims are great. i have a pair but I may have to rebuild the rear wheel to house a Shimano compatible cassette. Have a Campag screw on at the moment but its worn out and obsolete.

Great wheel though.

 

[AnythingButKestrel]

Are the DT240 hubs worth springing for?

What do I specify to get a wheel that doesn't creak while climbing out of the saddle? Higher spoke count?

 

[BroDeal]

At the risk of incurring the wrath of RDV , I will disagree with everyone about getting custom builts. I have always used custom builts wheels. I have a bunch of sets, but I think the economics have changed a bit. I think these days for about $500 I would get two sets of cheap Neuvations, take the decals off, ride them a month, and have a someone true and retension them.

Neuvation often has deals where you can get a set of their heavier wheels for about $200 - $250. Right now a 2009 M series set is $180; the 2010 set is $200.

Interview with the owner of Neuvation:

http://redkiteprayer.com/?p=623

 

[steelciocc]

Good point BroDeal

While I agreee woth BroDeal's logic I would still pursue the handbuilt option. Find a reliable hubset on eBay and send 'em to Joe Young.

I just had a set built for a friend on a set of DA hubs that I got a pretty good deal on ($250 - DA7850). Joe charged $351 plus shipping for the build on DT RR415 (old RR 1.1) rims and Revolution spokes. Peter @ Vecchios is also a great wheelbuilder as Mr. Knuckle says.

If you can live with Ultegra hubs you should be able to get close to $500...

 

[AnythingButKestrel]

Why not cartridge bearings? If one was going to buy hubs off eBay or wherever, is the best choice 'Ace or DT240?

 

[dolophonic]

people seem to like the 23mm rims the Hed ones loon nice but are a bit pricey.

 

[steelciocc]

Campagnolo!

Best choice would be pre-'07 Record but if you must run "S" I think you'll find a better deal on DA. 7800 is just fine and can be had for <$250. 240's will likely run >$100 more.

All that being said, I would bet nobody could tell the difference running Ultegra.

Just my .02

 

[Bustedknuckle]

At the risk of incurring the wrath of RDV , I will disagree with everyone about getting custom builts. I have always used custom builts wheels. I have a bunch of sets, but I think the economics have changed a bit. I think these days for about $500 I would get two sets of cheap Neuvations, take the decals off, ride them a month, and have a someone true and retension them.

Neuvation often has deals where you can get a set of their heavier wheels for about $200 - $250. Right now a 2009 M series set is $180; the 2010 set is $200.

Interview with the owner of Neuvation:

http://redkiteprayer.com/?p=623

You are essentially getting the same thing. Difference is the guy that owns the place has the $ to private source hubs, rims, probably spokes, then has some guy 'there' build them. Direct from the Asian manufacturer, thru him to you. Like most carbon frames including the big Euro names, European and US manufacturing can't compete with a place that pays 1/10 of the wages with a currency that is held artificially low to make exports cheap, cheap. Doesn't make the wheel a good wheel, just a cheap wheel. But it may work for you.

 

[rdogwoof]

Ok so here is what I am most likely gonna end up with.

Ultegra Hubs (can get 'em cheap)
Some type of boxed rims
And a few more spokes than what I could normally get away with
Brass nipples

Just some more food for thought. Is there any real significance between spokes (type and brand)?

Oh and I know an excellent, experienced wheel builder too.

And Just for the hell of it, for a racing wheel set (in the works too) I have a hard time justifying a custom wheel set. Thoughts and opinions on that as well?

 

[BroDeal]

You are essentially getting the same thing. Difference is the guy that owns the place has the $ to private source hubs, rims, probably spokes, then has some guy 'there' build them. Direct from the Asian manufacturer, thru him to you. Like most carbon frames including the big Euro names, European and US manufacturing can't compete with a place that pays 1/10 of the wages with a currency that is held artificially low to make exports cheap, cheap. Doesn't make the wheel a good wheel, just a cheap wheel. But it may work for you.

I don't own any Neuvations, but they have a business model I can respect. It is basically to sell a solid product dirt cheap with better customer service than their competitors. The western bike companies want to have their cake and eat it too. They want to outsource manufacturing to asia but charge as though they they were manufacturing in the first world. They are relying on their brand name and marketing BS to allow them to sell at a premium price even though they are not willing to pay for premium labor. It is stupid to allow them to get away with it. It is ridiculous that my U.S. made custom ti frame cost less than many plastic frames made in Asia and sold by companies like Specialized and Scott. If the big bike companies are going to take advantage of developing countries to juice their bottom lines then it is only fair for the customers to use the same methods to get more for their money.

From a company like Neuvation you can get two sets of training wheels for about the price of one set of custom built wheels. I like having more than one set of wheels. If I am about to go riding and I notice one of my wheels went flat overnight from a puncture, I just switch the wheel with one of my others. It is also nice to have different cassettes on different wheels. I just use the set that has the gearing appropriate for the terrain, and I don't have to mess around with switching cassettes.

If I were putting together a new bike today, I think I would spend $1500 - 2000 on wheels by looking for a good deal on two sets of something like Neuvations and using the balance for something more blingy.

 

[Bustedknuckle]

Best choice would be pre-'07 Record but if you must run "S" I think you'll find a better deal on DA. 7800 is just fine and can be had for <$250. 240's will likely run >$100 more.

All that being said, I would bet nobody could tell the difference running Ultegra.

Just my .02

I wouldn't get 7800. Those were deep splined aluminum freehub that were compatible with shimano 10s ONLY. Not any 9s/8s and no sram. 7850 or 7900, both with ti freehub bodies. Or any ultegra, simple hubs, great hubs, not expensive, like steelciocc said.

 

[Bustedknuckle]

I don't own any Neuvations, but they have a business model I can respect. It is basically to sell a solid product dirt cheap with better customer service than their competitors. The western bike companies want to have their cake and eat it too. They want to outsource manufacturing to asia but charge as though they they were manufacturing in the first world. They are relying on their brand name and marketing BS to allow them to sell at a premium price even though they are not willing to pay for premium labor. It is stupid to allow them to get away with it. It is ridiculous that my U.S. made custom ti frame cost less than many plastic frames made in Asia and sold by companies like Specialized and Scott. If the big bike companies are going to take advantage of developing countries to juice their bottom lines then it is only fair for the customers to use the same methods to get more for their money.

From a company like Neuvation you can get two sets of training wheels for about the price of one set of custom built wheels. I like having more than one set of wheels. If I am about to go riding and I notice one of my wheels went flat overnight from a puncture, I just switch the wheel with one of my others. It is also nice to have different cassettes on different wheels. I just use the set that has the gearing appropriate for the terrain, and I don't have to mess around with switching cassettes.

If I were putting together a new bike today, I think I would spend $1500 - 2000 on wheels by looking for a good deal on two sets of something like Neuvations and using the balance for something more blingy.

Not disagreeing with you, just explaining how he does it. Basic hubs, spokes, rims, private source, if built well, can work fine. Same for frames, like those on ebay $250 carbon frames from HongKong..work well and when decaled, cost 10-15 times as much.

But like expensive doesn't equal excellent, neither does cheap.

 

[vorsprung]

Just some more food for thought. Is there any real significance between spokes (type and brand)?

Sapim and DT Swiss are good
Double butted is better than plain

 

[Hawkwood]

Ok so here is what I am most likely gonna end up with.

Ultegra Hubs (can get 'em cheap)
Some type of boxed rims
And a few more spokes than what I could normally get away with
Brass nipples

Just some more food for thought. Is there any real significance between spokes (type and brand)?

Oh and I know an excellent, experienced wheel builder too.

And Just for the hell of it, for a racing wheel set (in the works too) I have a hard time justifying a custom wheel set. Thoughts and opinions on that as well?

Ambrosio have a good reputation for their rims, a number of Paris Roubaix races have been won on their tubular ones. Looking at their website they have three that might suit you, Evolution, Excellence, and Excellight with the latter being the lightest.

 

[RDV4ROUBAIX]

At the risk of incurring the wrath of RDV , I will disagree with everyone about getting custom builts. I have always used custom builts wheels. I have a bunch of sets, but I think the economics have changed a bit. I think these days for about $500 I would get two sets of cheap Neuvations, take the decals off, ride them a month, and have a someone true and retension them.

Neuvation often has deals where you can get a set of their heavier wheels for about $200 - $250. Right now a 2009 M series set is $180; the 2010 set is $200.

Interview with the owner of Neuvation:

http://redkiteprayer.com/?p=623

Yer getting me confused with Bustedknuckle. He's the adamant custom only guy, which is funny because I only deal in wheels, and he's a bike shop. I've actually recommended the budget stuff on this forum for people if money is their main concern. So as you well know, you get what you pay for. If the budget is tight Neuvation or Williams is the way to go. If you know what you want and don't have budget limitations, custom is the way to go. It's all a wash anyway because if you go custom you get a decade or more of trouble free riding, go the budget route and you spend the same or more maintaining and fixing every other season.
The BIG misconception about lightweight road wheels is rider weight. If you're around the 200lbs mark I don't care how great of a deal a wheel set is you're not going to get bang for your buck riding low spoke count cheap component wheels. If your in the 145lbs range you're basically safe and not going to wear anything out, unless it's Mavic of course.

 

[AnythingButKestrel]

What's the consensus on Rol wheels? I was talking to them about a set of Race SL's with DT240 hubs and a higher spoke count.

 

[RDV4ROUBAIX]

What's the consensus on Rol wheels? I was talking to them about a set of Race SL's with DT240 hubs and a higher spoke count.

For the price of those SL's you could get a custom build with the DT hubs. One thing that really bugs me about ROL is their SEO marketing blitz. No matter where I go, google, yahoo, weather, email, news, etc., their advertising pops up everywhere. Pretty smart marketing wise, but does that really translate to kick @ss wheels? More than likely,...Not.

 

[Bustedknuckle]

Yer getting me confused with Bustedknuckle. He's the adamant custom only guy, which is funny because I only deal in wheels, and he's a bike shop. I've actually recommended the budget stuff on this forum for people if money is their main concern. So as you well know, you get what you pay for. If the budget is tight Neuvation or Williams is the way to go. If you know what you want and don't have budget limitations, custom is the way to go. It's all a wash anyway because if you go custom you get a decade or more of trouble free riding, go the budget route and you spend the same or more maintaining and fixing every other season.
The BIG misconception about lightweight road wheels is rider weight. If you're around the 200lbs mark I don't care how great of a deal a wheel set is you're not going to get bang for your buck riding low spoke count cheap component wheels. If your in the 145lbs range you're basically safe and not going to wear anything out, unless it's Mavic of course.

Yep, I agree with everything you say, including and special emphasis on, "It's all a wash anyway because if you go custom you get a decade or more of trouble free riding, go the budget route and you spend the same or more maintaining and fixing every other season."