trek frame with Campy - toxic combo?

[brent242]

I have a Trek SSL (OCLV 55) carbon frame with Campy Chorus. However, after about 3-4 months of riding I inevitably have to replace the BB cups due to heavy corrosion.

I've been to 3 different mechanics over the past 5 years who have narrowed the problem down...

- the frame does not contain a hole on BB to drain standing water from inside, due to the external routing of cables below the BB. Instead, Trek offers a bolt with a tiny hole that secures the cables and is supposed to allow drainage. However, it typically is filled with gunk and does not drain.

- unlike other BBs, Campy external cups do not connect to one another...as such, the sealed races are exposed to any standing water/gunk that settles in the BB

- regardless my efforts to manually drain the frame, this Trek/Campy combo continues to fail. After a long sportive outside of London 2 weeks ago that, of course, included some rain, I can barely turn the cranks.

Has anyone else had a similar problem?

Am I doomed to fail with this combo from the Man behind Shimano/Trek sponsorship?

 

[TERMINATOR]

I have a Trek SSL (OCLV 55) carbon frame with Campy Chorus. However, after about 3-4 months of riding I inevitably have to replace the BB cups due to heavy corrosion.

I've been to 3 different mechanics over the past 5 years who have narrowed the problem down...

- the frame does not contain a hole on BB to drain standing water from inside, due to the external routing of cables below the BB. Instead, Trek offers a bolt with a tiny hole that secures the cables and is supposed to allow drainage. However, it typically is filled with gunk and does not drain.

- unlike other BBs, Campy external cups do not connect to one another...as such, the sealed races are exposed to any standing water/gunk that settles in the BB

- regardless my efforts to manually drain the frame, this Trek/Campy combo continues to fail. After a long sportive outside of London 2 weeks ago that, of course, included some rain, I can barely turn the cranks.

Has anyone else had a similar problem?

Am I doomed to fail with this combo from the Man behind Shimano/Trek sponsorship?

Don't ride in the rain. Bikes are not designed to be ridden in the rain, and if you choose to do so you will have tons of maintenance. Even if the water drains, you are still ruining your wheel bearings and headset, chain, etc. None of that stuff is sealed from water contamination even though they market it as sealed.

There's no need to ride in the rain unless you are racing.

 

[kiwirider]

Stuff ...

Can't comment on this exact combo - but riding other frames which lack drain holes, I'm confused by the advice that you've been given and by the problem that you're having.

Obvious starter for 10 questions:
- I'm assuming that you are talking about the Ultra-torque cranks? Just that - depending on how you do your maths - when you say you've had this problem for 5 years, that puts you back onto the last year of the square taper bottom bracket. (
- how many km's do you do per week or month on average?
- how often do you pull the cranks off and clean/grease the cups?
- related to that is, what do you mean by "manually drain"?

I can't see how the presence or absence of a connecting tube between the cups will change the situation, as it simply changes where the crud that gets in between the cranks and the cups collects. Connected cups or fully sealed units don't stop crap getting into bearings - one look at my MTB (Race Face X type) or my cross bike (square taper Chorus sealed bracket) after a decent ride will show just how much that is the case!

I also think of the experience that we used to have with the old, open race/non-sealed bottom brackets when I started riding. They had a thread on the axle hole in the cup that was supposed to help keep water out (led to this urban myth that you shouldn't back pedal in the rain) and had a ridiculous little plastic tube that supposedly kept water and crud out of the bearing races. Neither of these worked. Some frames also had cut outs for drainage, but they let more water and crud in than they let out!

Back in those days, the only answer was regular stripping and maintenance - regardless of what brand of componentry you ran. Bearing in mind that a dry winter in NZ looks resembles a drought in the UK, that meant that we were pulling our brackets down once a fortnight on average - either that or it was a case of encountering the type of problems you are having and paying out for new bits every few months.

Long way of really asking "are you sure that your maintaining your bike properly given your riding conditions?"

 

[DISTRICT 9]

I have a Trek SSL (OCLV 55) carbon frame with Campy Chorus. However, after about 3-4 months of riding I inevitably have to replace the BB cups due to heavy corrosion.

I've been to 3 different mechanics over the past 5 years who have narrowed the problem down...

- the frame does not contain a hole on BB to drain standing water from inside, due to the external routing of cables below the BB. Instead, Trek offers a bolt with a tiny hole that secures the cables and is supposed to allow drainage. However, it typically is filled with gunk and does not drain.

- unlike other BBs, Campy external cups do not connect to one another...as such, the sealed races are exposed to any standing water/gunk that settles in the BB

- regardless my efforts to manually drain the frame, this Trek/Campy combo continues to fail. After a long sportive outside of London 2 weeks ago that, of course, included some rain, I can barely turn the cranks.

Has anyone else had a similar problem?

Am I doomed to fail with this combo from the Man behind Shimano/Trek sponsorship?

I have had the same issue. About every 6 months I grind a set of campi ultra torque. I ride by the Ocean so a lot of salt and sand on the roads, mixed with fog makes moisture or riding in rain, which I do all the time. Buy two sets of cranks, and swap out when the bearings fail.
By the way, I ride a TREK Chorus Ulta-Torque set-up also. I doubt the brand of bike has anything to do with the campi BB issue.
With the square taper the the BB bearings still grind up but it takes a couple of years riding.
I think the only answer are sealed bottom bracket cups, which are unavailable in Ultra Torque. Works good on my old Bianchi Grizzly/Deore mountain bike, which I trash and never clean.......

 

[Willy_Voet]

If Trek still has the little slit near the binder bolt/clamp on the seat tube, you can put on some protection with a piece of inner tube ziptied at the top and bottom to cover the slit.

I had a Trek for ~5 years and always had problems with water collecting in the frame. I could pour out about 8 ounces after being caught in a downpour.

As for not riding in the rain advice...that's great if you live in the desert or some place with very predictable storm fronts. The Southern US gets pop-up thunderstorms for about 6 months of the year. Can't help but get wet 1 day a week.

 

[Wallace]

Don't ride in the rain. Bikes are not designed to be ridden in the rain, and if you choose to do so you will have tons of maintenance. Even if the water drains, you are still ruining your wheel bearings and headset, chain, etc. None of that stuff is sealed from water contamination even though they market it as sealed.

There's no need to ride in the rain unless you are racing.

I'm sorry, but even though you put your location as "Planet Earth" I have a hard time believing that you really are from this planet, with this kind of advice.

 

[brent242]

Yes, I have Ultra Torque. I don't recall having the same problem with the square tapers, so it's probably been the past 3yrs.

I ride 100-200km/week. Every few weeks, I'll remove the seat and tip out any water in the frame, then let it air out upside down for a day or so. (I do this more frequently if I have ridden through a rain storm.)

Pulling off the cranks every 2-4 weeks to clean out the BB is a good suggestion. However, my understanding is that there is not much to do with the external cups - beyond perhaps greasing the outer cover over the bearings.

I'm thinking about biting the bullet and replacing the Campy with SRAM...

 

[kiwirider]

I'm thinking about biting the bullet and replacing the Campy with SRAM...

Steady on!!! This is a family forum - we'll have none of that gutter talk around here please!!!

Seriously - I reckon there's a lot more that can be done before ditching the Campag - and even then, at most you'd only need to change the cranks and bracket.

Have you tried the new cyclocross bracket cups? Haven't used them, but apparently they have improved seals and so forth to handle the crap that cross dishes out. I can't get onto the Campag site - it's not loading up at the moment for some reason - so haven't been able to check the spare parts documents to see if there really is much of a difference - but could be worth a look for you?

And I'll show my bias and say that if it was me, I'd think long and hard before going SRAM. I love my SRAM X.0 on my MTB, but haven't enjoyed riding SRAM on road and 'cross bikes. Admittedly, I haven't ridden consistent days in a row on the stuff, but each time that I've got off it, I've been more than happy to get back onto my Campag equipped bikes.

 

[brianf7]

Don't ride in the rain. Bikes are not designed to be ridden in the rain, and if you choose to do so you will have tons of maintenance. Even if the water drains, you are still ruining your wheel bearings and headset, chain, etc. None of that stuff is sealed from water contamination even though they market it as sealed.

There's no need to ride in the rain unless you are racing.

All bikes are made to ride in the rain no argument about that how often do you get cought out with rain while riding. some people do train properly and often ride 3-5 hours and some times can get cought out after two hours riding so do you catch a bus home, No you have to ride in the rain some times for 2-3 hours.
The bike will stand up to it

Campy ultra torque are not sealed but the bearings should be although the treck BB will get wet inside not good

I do know someone who used to drill holes in his bike but no advised . he wanted a lighter bike so drilled everything untill his crank broken one day.

 

[richwagmn]

I seem to remember Leonard Zinn from Velonews saying you SHOULD drill a small hole in your carbon BB shell just for the purposes of draining water. I can't see that it would really hurt.

 

[fatterboy]

I have a Trek SSL (OCLV 55) carbon frame with Campy Chorus. However, after about 3-4 months of riding I inevitably have to replace the BB cups due to heavy corrosion.

I've been to 3 different mechanics over the past 5 years who have narrowed the problem down...

- the frame does not contain a hole on BB to drain standing water from inside, due to the external routing of cables below the BB. Instead, Trek offers a bolt with a tiny hole that secures the cables and is supposed to allow drainage. However, it typically is filled with gunk and does not drain.

- unlike other BBs, Campy external cups do not connect to one another...as such, the sealed races are exposed to any standing water/gunk that settles in the BB

- regardless my efforts to manually drain the frame, this Trek/Campy combo continues to fail. After a long sportive outside of London 2 weeks ago that, of course, included some rain, I can barely turn the cranks.

Has anyone else had a similar problem?

Am I doomed to fail with this combo from the Man behind Shimano/Trek sponsorship?

having been a mechanic for over 20 years and now work for a company that imports Trek bikes and have campy on my trek madone ,the answer is drill a hole under the bb as did postal did with with there bikes back in the day as this was all so a problem with Dura ace 7700 bb.
this will not damage the frame .the screw with the hole in it was small and was easily blocked.
Also the new bb 90 bottom bracket that are on the lastest madone frames come with a 2 piece tube that may fit between the cups inside the frame shell and the ultra torque axle will be covered and may help stoping the water from getting in the bearings

 

[fabramowski]

just a quick thought, don't clean your chain while it is still on your bike. Degreaser can get into the BB bearings and striping away the grease....

 

[bc_hills]

lol! don't ride your bike in the rain. don't clean your chain while it's on your bike. do you guys tuck your bikes in at night as well?

 

[Bustedknuckle]

I have a Trek SSL (OCLV 55) carbon frame with Campy Chorus. However, after about 3-4 months of riding I inevitably have to replace the BB cups due to heavy corrosion.

I've been to 3 different mechanics over the past 5 years who have narrowed the problem down...

- the frame does not contain a hole on BB to drain standing water from inside, due to the external routing of cables below the BB. Instead, Trek offers a bolt with a tiny hole that secures the cables and is supposed to allow drainage. However, it typically is filled with gunk and does not drain.

- unlike other BBs, Campy external cups do not connect to one another...as such, the sealed races are exposed to any standing water/gunk that settles in the BB

- regardless my efforts to manually drain the frame, this Trek/Campy combo continues to fail. After a long sportive outside of London 2 weeks ago that, of course, included some rain, I can barely turn the cranks.

Has anyone else had a similar problem?

Am I doomed to fail with this combo from the Man behind Shimano/Trek sponsorship?

Drill a hole in the BB shell and install the BB with lots, I mean lots, of grease. In the cups, around the bearings, inside the BB shell..lots of it.

 

[Black Dog]

Forget grease on the cups. Use anti-seize and be generous. Coat the threads of the cups and the shell in the frame. It will not wash off and will prevent any corrosion. As for the bearings on the Campy UT cranks: Grease grease and more grease. Rub grease on the exposed side of the bearings, you will be able to work in a good amount around the ball bearings and this will help seal them up. The bearings only have a seal on the outboard side and not the inboard side. You can do this as often as you need to and it is simple and fast since the cranks come off in less than a minute.

 

[hmsgenoa]

I think the lack of connecting tube could cause a problem. I would use an old Fairy liquid bottle (if such a thing or similar still exists), cut it up to fit precisely, tape it, slap plenty of white grease around the edges where it meets the cups inside and I think Bob's your uncle. Won't cost you a fortune and well worth a try.

 

[veganrob]

Yes, I have Ultra Torque. I don't recall having the same problem with the square tapers, so it's probably been the past 3yrs.

I ride 100-200km/week. Every few weeks, I'll remove the seat and tip out any water in the frame, then let it air out upside down for a day or so. (I do this more frequently if I have ridden through a rain storm.)

Pulling off the cranks every 2-4 weeks to clean out the BB is a good suggestion. However, my understanding is that there is not much to do with the external cups - beyond perhaps greasing the outer cover over the bearings.

I'm thinking about biting the bullet and replacing the Campy with SRAM...

I've never had that problem with Record on my Look.

If you would have gotten Sram in the first place you would just be replacing the whole drivetrain now anyway though.