Tubs

[HongKongPhooey]

Vittoria Evo CX or Continental Sprinter?

Will be used on motor racing circuits mainly plus a few events on the open road.

 

[brianf7]

Vittoria Evo CX or Continental Sprinter?

Will be used on motor racing circuits mainly plus a few events on the open road.

Conti are best but both are too expencive for club racing Sprinters are cheaper than Evo CX and may be more puncture resistant.
Look around and find old stock that are nice and hard.

 

[forty four]

Vittoria Evo CX or Continental Sprinter?

Will be used on motor racing circuits mainly plus a few events on the open road.

vittorias rail corners for sure but if you ride anywhere near glass well forget it. contis are my favorite choice for all round use.

 

[MR_Sarcastic]

I have wheels with Vittoria CX's for clean crit courses and wheels with Conti's for road races, where you don't know what's on the road....The Cont's work well for Crits, also.
You can save some money by going with Sprinters, but they are not made as well as the more expensive Vittoria's. They sometimes are a little lumpy after glueing on. Sometimes you get good one's, sometimes you don't.
If you can afford them, I highly recomend Conti Comps. They're a little more expensive than CX's, but are more puncture proof.

 

[RDV4ROUBAIX]

Vittoria Evo CX or Evo Slick. If it's on a race day or special event only wheel set you'll be fine. Conti's are a bit cheaper, you'd get more mileage out of them, but the Vittorias are the superior race day tire simply for the handling. I raced Sprinters for almost a decade, until I got a got a hold of some Evo CX's. Haven't bought anything Conti since 2005.

 

[Notso Swift]

I have just put my First set of Vittoria CX's on, after lots of time on the Conti's
They seem to wear a little faster though grip a little better (IE a softer compound) as said, perfect for crits
I think I will go back to Conti's though, purely subjective, just when they wear out

 

[runninboy]

Sponsored by both definitely prefer the Vittoria. I have not had alot of problem with flats. Vittoria seem more consistent in quality than the Conti.
Also and i hate to mention this,I use Fast tack to glue and it attacks the base tape of the Conti's. the Vittoria's work great with it(walked in on a team mechanic using it on the team tire instead of the provided Vittoria glue)
I had the Sprinters glued on for a few months , went to check the tire and when i tried to roll it off to check the glue job it rolled halfway off the base tape. When i raced when someone rolled a tire generally it was a Sprinter glued with fast tack IME.

 

[Bustedknuckle]

Vittoria Evo CX or Continental Sprinter?

Will be used on motor racing circuits mainly plus a few events on the open road.

Vittoria is more supple, Conti is more durable. I use Sprinters on my everyday wheels, have great luck with them. I've tried Vittorias and get more flats(almost none with Sprinters). As was mentioned, use Vittoria or my favorite Panaracer to glue them on. No Fastac, bad idea.

 

[MR_Sarcastic]

Sponsored by both definitely prefer the Vittoria. I have not had alot of problem with flats. Vittoria seem more consistent in quality than the Conti.
Also and i hate to mention this,I use Fast tack to glue and it attacks the base tape of the Conti's. the Vittoria's work great with it(walked in on a team mechanic using it on the team tire instead of the provided Vittoria glue)
I had the Sprinters glued on for a few months , went to check the tire and when i tried to roll it off to check the glue job it rolled halfway off the base tape. When i raced when someone rolled a tire generally it was a Sprinter glued with fast tack IME.

Everything attacks Conti base tape, except Conti glue.

 

[runninboy]

Everything attacks Conti base tape, except Conti glue.

Spot On, except IME the conti glue also. I couldnt believe it, when i was running Conti i stopped using fast tack and switched to Conti glue. It lasted longer but one tire seperated from the base tape after about 4 months. that's when i decided to go back to Vits & fast tack. I just pitched all the Conti

 

[RDV4ROUBAIX]

Realize that 3M Fastac is pretty popular, cheap and all, but I do NOT recommend using it. It does not cure properly as a real tubular glue should. I remember a few years ago 3M actually releasing a statement to the cycling industry that even though Fastac is sufficient enough to glue a tire to a rim, it does not have the same properties as glues that are specially formulated for tubulars, and doesn't have as strong of adhesion strength of normal tubular glue even after a proper cure time.

I use Vittoria Mastik One. Interesting article here that compares most all the glues and tapes available, Vittoria comes out on top.

http://www.engr.ku.edu/~kuktl/bicycle/bicycle.html

 

[MR_Sarcastic]

Spot On, except IME the conti glue also. I couldnt believe it, when i was running Conti i stopped using fast tack and switched to Conti glue. It lasted longer but one tire seperated from the base tape after about 4 months. that's when i decided to go back to Vits & fast tack. I just pitched all the Conti

I've noticed that in the last 10 years, the base tape original glue job has deteriorated on Sprinters (just like the tire itself) The old Sprinter 250's were good enough to race on. The newer ones....not so much.
I never soak the base tape with glue, as I do with Vittoria's. The final "wet" coat before sticking the tire on, is very thin, even with Conti glue.

 

[TexPat]

I've noticed that in the last 10 years, the base tape original glue job has deteriorated on Sprinters (just like the tire itself) The old Sprinter 250's were good enough to race on. The newer ones....not so much.
I never soak the base tape with glue, as I do with Vittoria's. The final "wet" coat before sticking the tire on, is very thin, even with Conti glue.

There has been a reduction in quality of the Contis, yet they are still very good, and quite durable. The CX is faster.
RDV's advice on Fasttac is correct. I have seen the separated base tapes which are a result of using it.
On the subject of base tape: I have also had a high number of Vittorias with torn base tape, which occurs after applying the first coat of glue, stretching (on a rim, for the record), and mounting. Has anyone else seen this? It's as if the tape is too short when the tires is inflated and the tape is put under tension.
My hunch/theory is that the problem is related to the latex coating applied in the factory.
I requested a set of Corsas without the latex coating applied on the base tape, which have had no problems. The bond to the rim is also much better--in this case to Mavic Mach 2 CDs. These are the 320tpi CXs, and are absolutely beautiful to ride. In fact, I'll be hopping on them after breakfast.
Odd that MrSarcastic "never soaks the base tape" of a Conti; it's well nigh impossible to get a good bond with any Conti without saturating the base tape first, because the tape soaks up so much of the glue. If anything, the technique with Vittorias should be this way. The latex applied at the factory to the bast tape reacts with Mastik (also latex-based) facilitating the bond.
The bond is meant to be glue to glue.

 

[MR_Sarcastic]

I've found that it's best not to soak the base tape of Conti's because the solvents in the glue go right thru the tape to attack the glue between the tire and base tape.
In the last 20 years, I've only rolled one tire, and that was caused by a pedal strike on an off camber turn on the bell lap.
Conti Comps are much better than Sprinters, but they are rather costly, unless you can get a "deal" through your team.

 

[Notso Swift]

Glue all the way and Mastik works fine with Conti

I have a mate who uses those those Tufo's (which he swears by) and they are designed only for tape and look like the hold perfect, but since Conti/Vitt/Panna all produce their own glue so why not match it to the tyre? (unless you can't get the product, which has sometimes happened)

 

[runninboy]

Realize that 3M Fastac is pretty popular, cheap and all, but I do NOT recommend using it. It does not cure properly as a real tubular glue should. I remember a few years ago 3M actually releasing a statement to the cycling industry that even though Fastac is sufficient enough to glue a tire to a rim, it does not have the same properties as glues that are specially formulated for tubulars, and doesn't have as strong of adhesion strength of normal tubular glue even after a proper cure time.

I use Vittoria Mastik One. Interesting article here that compares most all the glues and tapes available, Vittoria comes out on top.

http://www.engr.ku.edu/~kuktl/bicycle/bicycle.html

I understand your position. That is one reason why i hesitated to mention Fastac, all the controversy i didn't really want to hijack this thread. The reason the Team mechanic was using the fast tack he only had a couple tires left and didn't want to open another can of Vittoria for so little. So he had a tube and used that.To me he said they were pretty much equal.
Now i do know a few things about this. I know the studies used some different methods, but basically ime the fast tac will set in less than 24 hours. Once it has been on the rim a few days usually the only way to remove it is to pry it off with a screwdriver, not an easy task. However once you leave it on for a period of time, 6 months or so, the glue will attack the base tapesometimesand sometimes if left on for a year or more the bond will dry to the point the tire can come off the rim.
However since my team used to replace tires once they showed a little wear you never had an issue. You got fresh tires at least every month.
While i can't reccomend fast tack if you glue your tires a couple times in a season i really don't see any drawbacks.
In addition 3 m i think issued the statement i believe to protect themselves against possible liability. Lets face it the product is marketed as weather strip or auto trim adhesive, so not many lawsuits about those issues. Guys sprinter around corners on tires glued with their product opens a hole new can of worms.
Lastly I noticed from my frequent use, that the formula had changed slightly in the mid to late 90's. The different elements seem to seperate in the tube, so i use a spoke to stick into the tube and mix them. Otherwise you are squirting one element, which is clear on one rim and then when you do the other rim mostly hardener comes out.

 

[RDV4ROUBAIX]

runninboy,

Of course people will use whatever works for them. I get plenty of strange looks and comments when people find out I use ski wax for spoke prep in my wheelbuilds. I tried Fast Tack once, had to since I come from the land of 3M, used to pass the main corporate office on my regular rides. While it does hold a tire to a rim, there are too many things that can go wrong with it depending on tire choice, and mixing with other glues can cause negative results. I prefer Mastik One because it's the best. This of course is a slightly biased statement from me because I only use Vittoria products, but you can see from the article I posted Mastik One came out on top as the best performing tubular glue.

 

[runninboy]

runninboy,

Of course people will use whatever works for them. I get plenty of strange looks and comments when people find out I use ski wax for spoke prep in my wheelbuilds. I tried Fast Tack once, had to since I come from the land of 3M, used to pass the main corporate office on my regular rides. While it does hold a tire to a rim, there are too many things that can go wrong with it depending on tire choice, and mixing with other glues can cause negative results. I prefer Mastik One because it's the best. This of course is a slightly biased statement from me because I only use Vittoria products, but you can see from the article I posted Mastik One came out on top as the best performing tubular glue.

Yeah i guess i just got used to what works for me, However i do not reccomend fast tack to people anymore because mainly it is not what its made for.
I agree the Mastik is excellent. especially if u use Vittoria, however a bike shop i frequent had a small quantity of some Japanese glue that was supposedly used in Keirin racing. Never tried it, but they swore it was the best. It was kind of funny, it was like a drug deal."pssssst, come here in the back, don't tell anyone but we just got back from overseas and we scored some of this wicked Keirin glue, Another guy backed out so we got a couple extra tubes if u want them, but don't tell where u got it"

 

[RDV4ROUBAIX]

Also depends on the buzz. I bet that Japanese stuff is like warm sake for breakfast. I find Mastik One to have a strong immediate buzz with a long lasting mellow finish, and no hangover.

 

[runninboy]

Also depends on the buzz. I bet that Japanese stuff is like warm sake for breakfast. I find Mastik One to have a strong immediate buzz with a long lasting mellow finish, and no hangover.

Speaking of which, i can't believe the guys who glue tubbies indoors. Granted i live in Socal, but i always wait for a nice warm day with a breeze. even then i have to be careful to not get a whiff of this crap. One time i was back east at my parents house and i had to glue a tire before a race. So i went to the garage and it was about 34 degrees and i remembered from track racing that there were good cold weather glues that were crap in warm weather & vice versa. I think the red glue was for cold but anyway. i am out there wondering if the fast tack is gonna cure properly and the next thing i know the fumes hit me like i was smacked in the head by a 2 by 4!
I opened up the door and ran out side and took a few deep breaths of really cold air. I left the door open to air out the garage and went back into the house, the first thing my mom says "whats that smell?"
Holy crap, i had to turn on the fan in the garage and ;eave the door open all night.
How do you guys glue in a bike shop?
Seriously

 

[TexPat]

Speaking of which, i can't believe the guys who glue tubbies indoors. Granted i live in Socal, but i always wait for a nice warm day with a breeze. even then i have to be careful to not get a whiff of this crap. One time i was back east at my parents house and i had to glue a tire before a race. So i went to the garage and it was about 34 degrees and i remembered from track racing that there were good cold weather glues that were crap in warm weather & vice versa. I think the red glue was for cold but anyway. i am out there wondering if the fast tack is gonna cure properly and the next thing i know the fumes hit me like i was smacked in the head by a 2 by 4!
I opened up the door and ran out side and took a few deep breaths of really cold air. I left the door open to air out the garage and went back into the house, the first thing my mom says "whats that smell?"
Holy crap, i had to turn on the fan in the garage and ;eave the door open all night.
How do you guys glue in a bike shop?
Seriously

Word of caution:
I passed out in the workshop last winter while cleaning tub glue on a rim with Toluene, my head only just hitting the anti-fatigue mat--and not the concrete floor. It is truly heinous stuff. Proper ventilation is important with most of the chemicals related to bicycle repair.

 

[bridgeman]

I know with Vittoria CX's you've got to check them with a jewelers loop after every ride for embedded glass bits. Also, if you've had the good fortune of not suffering flats and they have reached about mid way through their tread life on the wheel, the base tape begins to seperate.

 

[runninboy]

Word of caution:
I passed out in the workshop last winter while cleaning tub glue on a rim with Toluene, my head only just hitting the anti-fatigue mat--and not the concrete floor. It is truly heinous stuff. Proper ventilation is important with most of the chemicals related to bicycle repair.

Wow sorry to hear that, very lucky and very scary. Yeah all this stuff is pretty toxic, not a joke. Like i said even working outdoors i make sure to take precautions. I would never breath the fumes, whenever i am stretching a new tire on a rim i found that i always through habit, hold my breathe until it is on. Then i realized that is what i do when i am putting a glued tubbie on a rim.
glad you are ok.
PS i used to use acetone to clean the rim, but a guy reccomended this kind of rubber erase pad, the glue sticks to it and gets rubbed off ,it does a pretty good job, then if there is anything left i use the goo gone with a scotch brite pad. Also i really scrape the latex off my base tape(vittoria) so most of the glue seems to stay on the the tape when you remove the tire and the only glue that gets left on the rim seems to be on the edges.

 

[runninboy]

I know with Vittoria CX's you've got to check them with a jewelers loop after every ride for embedded glass bits. Also, if you've had the good fortune of not suffering flats and they have reached about mid way through their tread life on the wheel, the base tape begins to seperate.

What ? real men just clean the tire with their hand as they ride...OUCH!
for me i just check for small cuts and have been pretty lucky their kevlar puncture belt seems to work.
Also have not had any real problems with base tape seperation until the tire has been glued to the rim for more than 5 or 6 months or a couple of years in age.

 

[blutto]

...have gone thru numerous Conti tubs over the years...mostly for training ( they wear like iron and unfortunately also ride like it )...they had lacked the compliance to be a great race tire...though lately have tried Conti Comps with the Vectran breaker strip and they are a much nicer tyre...but not up to the standards of the Veloflex tyres I race on ( these tyres are the second coming of the late lamented Clement Criteriums...though you have to go to the Roubaix model to get the full effect...the Clements were 24 mm width...and a good part of their storied performance was tied to the smoothness provided by the wide design... )

...the Vittorias are ok but I've very bad luck with them flatting...and base tape delamination was an issue for a while ( ...ironically the Conti Giro which is/was made at the same factory had the same issues...after some near distasterous incidents never went back to the Giros or any Vittorias... )

...hope that helps...though admittedly it doesn't specifically answer your question...but in my experience the two choices you offered were not the best ones available...for me it would be Veloflex and then the Conti Comp w/ VECTRAN ( if racing on very rough dirty roads where durability or flatting may be potential issues but on better reasonably clean roads the Veloflex are the clear choice...)

Cheers

blutto