Tubular Vrs Clincher

[k_gibbo]

I have recently got a set a tubular wheels for the first time. I really like them but am wondering about life expectancy. I was running conti 4000s on my old clinchers and have cone with the conti 4000 tubulars, so my question is should they last the same amount of kms?

 

[rgmerk]

I dunno about tubular vs clincher life, but if you care about tyre life, you probably shouldn't be running GP4000's, either as a tubular or a clincher.

The clincher version, at least, is an excellent race tyre (both my backside and Velo magazine's comprehensive testing seem to think so), but they simply aren't designed for the same kind of durability as harder training tyres.

 

[Bustedknuckle]

I have recently got a set a tubular wheels for the first time. I really like them but am wondering about life expectancy. I was running conti 4000s on my old clinchers and have cone with the conti 4000 tubulars, so my question is should they last the same amount of kms?

Yes and to help, get some Stans or Cafelatex sealant and squirt into the tubes to keep from having minor pin hole flats on these very expensive tires. When they do wear out, get some Conti Sprinters, great all around tubie for less $.

 

[RDV4ROUBAIX]

Yep, Conti Sprinter or even Giro. You want tires with less tpi and more rubber for higher mileage.

 

[k_gibbo]

Thanks for the advise, I have really good luck with the conti 4000 clinchers, that is why I went with the same in tubulars. I will have a look at the sprinters or something a bit more durable for my next set.

 

[Parera]

I love me some Contin GP4000s. Black Chili is awesome. X-King, Mountain King, Race King w/ that compound is pure sex. Those Germans know what they are doing when it comes to tires.

 

[Notso Swift]

GP4000 tub life isn't too bad at all actually, especially as I am guessing you are looking at a race tyre it is quite worth while. THey are a bit pricer than the sprinters but for me they seem better overall "value"

Vittoria, now there is a short lived race tyre with a definate "flat" wearing in the tyre after 500odd race km, fast on cornering though, so I guess it is horses for courses

 

[blutto]

Yep, Conti Sprinter or even Giro. You want tires with less tpi and more rubber for higher mileage.

...yep, absolutely right about the mileage, but apart from that those tubulars have riding qualities that make clinchers look like a really good option...if you can afford it or hit on a deal the Conti Comps w/Vectran are quite nice, and still have very good longevity....and for the love of gawd stay far far away from Tufo's which are easily the winner in the world's worst tubie competition ( though for some reason they are very popular with the tri crowd ...or maybe that is a dead give-away to something..)...

...as a tag line on another forum suggests...life is too short to ride on crap tires...the implication being ride VeloFlex Roubaix's which are the second coming of the most blessed and sadly missed Clement Criterium...an awesome tire that has surprisingly good longevity and a ride to die for...like the aforementioned Criterium it corners like you are on rails...

Cheers

blutto

 

[RDV4ROUBAIX]

...yep, absolutely right about the mileage, but apart from that those tubulars have riding qualities that make clinchers look like a really good option...if you can afford it or hit on a deal the Conti Comps w/Vectran are quite nice, and still have very good longevity....and for the love of gawd stay far far away from Tufo's which are easily the winner in the world's worst tubie competition ( though for some reason they are very popular with the tri crowd ...or maybe that is a dead give-away to something..)...

...as a tag line on another forum suggests...life is too short to ride on crap tires...the implication being ride VeloFlex Roubaix's which are the second coming of the most blessed and sadly missed Clement Criterium...an awesome tire that has surprisingly good longevity and a ride to die for...like the aforementioned Criterium it corners like you are on rails...

Cheers

blutto

Rode Sprinters for 6 years training and racing, thousands of miles. I don't know where you get the the idea that "those tubulars have riding qualities that make clinchers look like a really good option". A Sprinter tubular is still better than any clincher I've ever ridden.

Ahhh, the Clément Critters, always wanted a set of those. Bought a set of FMB Roubaix tubulars earlier this year. So far these are my "ride to die for" tires, best I've ever ridden.

 

[gregod]

how many people here repair their tubular flats? i have gotten pretty good at. if i get a flat in a low mileage tub, i can open it, patch it, and sew it back up in about 35 minutes. sometimes it hardly seems worth it, but it feels good to get the most possible use out of the tire.

 

[RDV4ROUBAIX]

how many people here repair their tubular flats? i have gotten pretty good at. if i get a flat in a low mileage tub, i can open it, patch it, and sew it back up in about 35 minutes. sometimes it hardly seems worth it, but it feels good to get the most possible use out of the tire.

25 years of riding tubulars I've gotten 2 flats, a front that I repaired, rear got tossed.

 

[richwagmn]

So I wonder if tubeless rims/tires will ever catch on.

Something like this is certainly light...

http://www.notubes.com/Alpha-Pro-Wheelset-P461C58.aspx

 

[RDV4ROUBAIX]

So I wonder if tubeless rims/tires will ever catch on.

Something like this is certainly light...

http://www.notubes.com/Alpha-Pro-Wheelset-P461C58.aspx

Race day or very lightweight riders only. Stan's rims are not meant for everyday wheels. Tubeless is a joke for road applications, only major tire mfg has been Hutchinson (personally I think their tires suck) for more than a decade they've been at it and barely made any headway against tubulars or clinchers. CX maybe, MTB is where tubeless makes the most sense, not road. Some swear by them, I think they're pointless for road bikes.

 

[blutto]

Rode Sprinters for 6 years training and racing, thousands of miles. I don't know where you get the the idea that "those tubulars have riding qualities that make clinchers look like a really good option". A Sprinter tubular is still better than any clincher I've ever ridden.

Ahhh, the Clément Critters, always wanted a set of those. Bought a set of FMB Roubaix tubulars earlier this year. So far these are my "ride to die for" tires, best I've ever ridden.

...rode Sprinters for decades myself ( could even be the other side of 100,000 miles.. )...and yeah they wear like iron...this was after a decade of riding what you call Critters ( both regular and the sublime Seta's )....Clement disappeared and the Vitorria's were always one pedal stroke from a flat...Conti's were the only option left for quite a while...but given where I had been they were awful...doing a crit in the wet on those things was beyond scary...no gaining position in corners, no brake feathering on those things you were just happy to make it thru...

...and then I discovered VeloFlex and life was good again ( especially the Roubaix's which a real good copy of the Critters...remember the Critter Cotton was 24 mm and it was the Strada 66 that was 22 mm...which is why railing corners is a gas on those things...and why they were called Criteriums... )...and oddly enough the new Conti Comps are ok...the Vectran seems to do wonders...you can actually dive bomb corners with them...but that casing is still just a hysterisis driven nightmare...as a result it will never ever be a fun tire...its a drudge thing tailor made for drudge work, training...only now its high drudge...

...by the way, try the VeloFlex Roubaix clinchers...had them for week on a set of Neutrons...they will change your mind about clinchers ( if you are ever forced to go that route )...they ride nice but clinchers will always have this propensity for flats which as a big guy is ultimately the deciding factor for me...like when was the last time you had a pinch flat on a tubie...yeah, don't tell me, when you demo your rim, and virtually only then...

Cheers

blutto

 

[DirtyWorks]

Spitting in the Soup!

You guys and your tire sensitivities. I've heard these same testimonials on countless rides years ago when Avocet(?) finally produced a lighter clincher.

There's no argument race-weight tubulars are lighter. I agree there's some very subtle ride differences. But we are splitting hairs at that point. I have no sense of substantial handling differences.

But, I'm a mountain/cross bike guy that rarely rides road anymore, so I'm pretty insensitive to road handling discussions. Roads just aren't that demanding in my area. My last set of new clinchers were much better than anything way back in the day. I don't miss road tubulars at all.

 

[GreasyMonkey]

...life is too short to ride on crap tires...the implication being ride VeloFlex Roubaix's which are the second coming of the most blessed and sadly missed Clement Criterium...an awesome tire that has surprisingly good longevity and a ride to die for...like the aforementioned Criterium it corners like you are on rails...

Totally agree with Veloflex Roubaix's! Use them until the cotton is showing thtrough, my last rear gave me a touch over 3000km being firstly on cobbles in Flanders & Roubaix, then as a training tyre in the Madrid Sierra.

The term I have heard for their grip is "sticks like s**t to a blanket"...

In reply to the question from Gregod, yes, repair them multiple times, if required - repairing of Veloflex tubs is the easiest of any I've done. Conti's are near impossible to get open (lifting base-tape) due to the rubber leaching into the cotton with vulcanising or some super-glue used to bond it on, and the Vittoria's have some bizzare stiching pattern that is next to impossible to tie off when you open the casing.
Veloflex, relatively esay to get open, simple sewing pattern to tie off, sew it up with dental floss and latex to fix the base-tape down, nice and easy.

 

[k_gibbo]

I have not been running the tubulars very long but on my first flat I used a can of compressed cafe latex that sealed the puncture and pumped up the tyre at the same time. I don't know if it will last very long, but time will tell!

 

[Bustedknuckle]

how many people here repair their tubular flats? i have gotten pretty good at. if i get a flat in a low mileage tub, i can open it, patch it, and sew it back up in about 35 minutes. sometimes it hardly seems worth it, but it feels good to get the most possible use out of the tire.

I do also but haven't had a flat for a while. Stan's in the tube means very, very few flats.

 

[Bustedknuckle]

So I wonder if tubeless rims/tires will ever catch on.

Something like this is certainly light...

http://www.notubes.com/Alpha-Pro-Wheelset-P461C58.aspx

190 pound maximum, my aunt matilda's mustache. PLUS alloy nipps and really crappy hubset..for 'only' $1100. Add 300 grams with slightly heavier rims, more spokes, better hubset. Ditch the silly road tubeless(which adds a bunch of weight, not mentioned, tape, big valve, goop), for your 93,000+ gram package of bike and 190 pound rider and not worry about killing a wheel.

Many cross racers are finding tubeless cross means burping tires. Once again, as with road, trying to get to the 'ride' and advantages of tubular, with some complicated answer. No, gluing tubies on is not a black art, does NOT take days and days. Does not involve tape and glue and lots of time. It is easy, takes about 30-40 minutes per tire.

 

[gregod]

25 years of riding tubulars I've gotten 2 flats, a front that I repaired, rear got tossed.

two flats in 25 years?!? WTF am i doing wrong? i haven't had a flat in a while, but i get one every year or two.

...

In reply to the question from Gregod, yes, repair them multiple times, if required - repairing of Veloflex tubs is the easiest of any I've done. Conti's are near impossible to get open (lifting base-tape) due to the rubber leaching into the cotton with vulcanising or some super-glue used to bond it on, and the Vittoria's have some bizzare stiching pattern that is next to impossible to tie off when you open the casing.
Veloflex, relatively esay to get open, simple sewing pattern to tie off, sew it up with dental floss and latex to fix the base-tape down, nice and easy.

that is what i like about vittorias. once you cut the thread you can pull it open easily. then leave a small loop and thread it through and pull it tight. then loop sew it to close.

what a coincidence. i have used dental floss to sew up a tire, too. it is very strong and makes a nice flat stitch.

 

[GreasyMonkey]

that is what i like about vittorias. once you cut the thread you can pull it open easily. then leave a small loop and thread it through and pull it tight. then loop sew it to close.

OK, see what you mean - I do it differently, cut it and carefully un-pick a little each direction (about 2cm) with a "quick-un-pick" sewing tool (strange little device used by tailors & dressmakers), then tie off.

what a coincidence. i have used dental floss to sew up a tire, too. it is very strong and makes a nice flat stitch.

Great minds think alike....

 

[Boeing]

Race day or very lightweight riders only. Stan's rims are not meant for everyday wheels. Tubeless is a joke for road applications, only major tire mfg has been Hutchinson (personally I think their tires suck) for more than a decade they've been at it and barely made any headway against tubulars or clinchers. CX maybe, MTB is where tubeless makes the most sense, not road. Some swear by them, I think they're pointless for road bikes.

I agree. Weight is not a reason to go tubeless IMHO. I don't think it is even measurable on a roadie.

the ability to ride low pressure and avoid pinch plats is suited really toward large volume tires.

I am not sure how effective the tubeless brew is in a high pressure road tire against flats anyway and the thought of burping and losing a bead on a roadie is not a fun thought

 

[Parera]

Tubeless is for the mountain crowd only. Everyone else need not bother.

 

[ustabe]

25 years of riding tubulars I've gotten 2 flats, a front that I repaired, rear got tossed.

OK, I'll bite. What have you been doing for 25 years?

Last winter I built a set of tubular wheels, and I've been getting about a flat for every three or four days of riding them. The tires are (were) four Challenge cottons of modest proportions (25mm, about 270 g). One is has a torn casing, one has a patch, one will get a patch soon, and one is intact.

There's been a lot of broken glass at intersections around Boulder this summer.

 

[ElChingon]

OK, see what you mean - I do it differently, cut it and carefully un-pick a little each direction (about 2cm) with a "quick-un-pick" sewing tool (strange little device used by tailors & dressmakers), then tie off.



Great minds think alike....

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