Tyler Farrar

[Delicato]

Just read this article on VeloNews, it amazes me how the cyclist who has never ever ridden a grand tour before now rides all three of the, and aims for stage wins in the Vuelta, and not only Vuelta-he also plans to take part in WC! I hope it won't influence his career later, after all, racing for 100 days in a year, and racing all three Grand Tours when you are 25 years of age-major stress for organism.

How JV does it? I still believe in them (Garmin), but seeing BW attacking Lance and co, Vandevelde recovering very fast after horrible crash and then doing a very respectable Top-10 in TDF, Tommy D. coming back from wilderness to winning races, and now Farrar who seems to be the i-am-the-guy-with-the-super-stamina, should I continue to wear rose-tinted glasses?

 

[blackcat]

Just read this article on VeloNews, it amazes me how the cyclist who has never ever ridden a grand tour before now rides all three of the, and aims for stage wins in the Vuelta, and not only Vuelta-he also plans to take part in WC! I hope it won't influence his career later, after all, racing for 100 days in a year, and racing all three Grand Tours when you are 25 years of age-major stress for organism.

How JV does it? I still believe in them (Garmin), but seeing BW attacking Lance and co, Vandevelde recovering very fast after horrible crash and then doing a very respectable Top-10 in TDF, Tommy D. coming back from wilderness to winning races, and now Farrar who seems to be the i-am-the-guy-with-the-super-stamina, should I continue to wear rose-tinted glasses?

I support JV and his team's right to compete on an even playing field (cryptic enough for you, being diplomatic).

My strategy would be different, attacking the playing field on a macro level. I think the evidence is, the blood passports, create a barrier to entry, and entrench the advantages that the riders with resources have.

No way Prentice Steffen is whipping out a magic bag for 30 injections on the body's various systems. I do not even think he is with them for races outside the GTs. So they are still at a disadvantage.

My resent is at the message that they have carefully constructed. Not genuine imo.

And I don't like the cocky Manxman.

 

[taiwan]

Wiggins attacked once in the mountains, I think, and otherwise just hung on, and Van de Velde placed around where he has in previous years. Would riding three grand tours tax the stamina of a sprinter as much as someone in the GC? I like to believe that for Wiggins, the targeting of the Tour and the wieght loss is plausible enough explantion for his development, but I admit it's reasonable to raise questions about the top ten of the Tour. Long story short: I hope not.

 

[TRDean]

Good questions...Farrar...I just don't know. I know it happens...but I am really not a believer in this "coming out of nowhere" to be a stud progression. Farrar has always been a good hard working rider. Now he is a stud all season, with 3 grand tours? What? I will continue to support until evidence proves otherwise...but will remain skeptical.

 

[Jonathan]

Wiggins attacked once in the mountains, I think, and otherwise just hung on...

His performance reminded me of Rumsas.

 

[blackcat]

Wiggins attacked once in the mountains, I think, and otherwise just hung on, and Van de Velde placed around where he has in previous years. Would riding three grand tours tax the stamina of a sprinter as much as someone in the GC? I like to believe that for Wiggins, the targeting of the Tour and the wieght loss is plausible enough explantion for his development, but I admit it's reasonable to raise questions about the top ten of the Tour. Long story short: I hope not.

Wiggins did alot more than defend. He looked left and right, and checked out his competitors, he looked smug and confident. He was not under pressure much at all.

 

[blackcat]

In support of TF.

He won two(?) stages in l'Avenir circa 2004 in field sprints. Beat Renshaw amongst the field, and he is two years younger. May have gone head to head with Seba Chavanel in his first year in l'Avenir. His second year, was not as good. Chavanel won a couple of field sprints in l'Avenir in a couple of years also. Last year at the Tour, Chavanel was one of the only sprinters to take it up against Cavendish, and he did not have the same level of support. I rate Chavanel highly for speed, but he has had a poor year and never made the Tour roster.

So Farrar always had the pedigree and speed. And he was top 10 in the u23 Worlds timetrial also I believe circa 2005.

How many days did he ride in the Giro? 14? more? He was coming back from injury correct?

 

[taiwan]

I just meant that wiggins wasn't positively agressive in the mountains,looked like he was at his limit at times, like Le Grand Bonard, when Vandevelde did all that work for him, or Ventoux when he eventually got dropped and had to ride his own pace. Altogether I really liked what Sliptream did at the Tour.
I don't know how Rumsas rode. Little prior knowledge. He came 3rd, doping?
If Farrar's under suspicion already, then it'll stay that way don't expect anything to be proved either way, but I'd like to see him take a stage in the ENECO Tour , and /or the Vuelta as his form's so good. I like the team.

 

[Jonathan]

Rumsas was a rider to whom I looked forward seeing in the Tour. He participated only at a late point in his career, but I expected him to do well, because he had always done well in tough races and stage races. I also remember seeing him tipped as outsider for the Tour by Dutch cycling magazine Wieler Revue, but for a year when he did not, in fact, participate!

So he wasn't someone who came completely out of the blue. His style of riding was not aggressive - I don't think he attacked at all, mostly trying to stay with the leaders. He also rode good TTs, although in the final Tour TT his handlebar wasn't fixed properly, which probably cost him time.

He finished third that year anyway, and a few days later a large supply of doping products were found in his wife's car.

As far as Wiggings is concerned, this does not have to mean anything, but the Rumsas case does invalidate some arguments that have been used in Wiggins' defence. Rumsas was, for me, a podium candidate based on his previous performance, and his style of riding did not seem unrealistic. In fact he followed the same strategy as Wiggings.

 

[Frosty]

How hard would a guy like Tyler have found this year's tour? Obviously a three week tour is not to be taken lightly but quite a lot of the mountain days were fairly flat and then had a big climb at the end. For someone just looking to get through the tour then these climbs are not going to present much of a problem if you are merely trying to avoid the time limit and therefore can afford to lose 30 minutes. Backing this up is the record high proportion of finishers (i think). A three week tour is still going to take a lot out of you but for the non-climbers maybe this was easier than previous years?

 

[Jonathan]

Kenny would disagree.

 

[taiwan]

Well, there's a stage win. I'm not assuming anything but that he's in good form, with strong team support. Plus he hasn't actually lasted the Vuelta yet. Don't think this would be a race for Wiggins as GC man. They must just ride for Farrar now.

 

[taiwan]

Actually that's rubbish. You couldn't win even a flat tour in bunch sprints alone. I don't know who for the GC.

 

[gslater]

Well, I'm certainly not going to bother to comment on the skepticism vs. trust argument. We all know where that goes. To start and finish three grand tours is pretty ridiculous, but hardly open-and-shut evidence of doping. I personally don't believe in the 'you must dope to even ride in Europe' concept.

Now, in regards to Tyler Farrar. Yeah, what a stellar year. Really solid performances, obviously on some fantastic form right now. For starters, he did the first two weeks of the Giro and then pulled the plug. Then he did the Tour and had a good ride. Now he is about to ride the Vuelta. He hasn't started it or finished it yet. So essentially, this thread is questioning(albeit lightly) a season that is comprised of one and a half grand tours, and several solid wins. 3 in small-to-medium short stage races, one stage in a large stage race, a 'nouveau-classic', and several high placings in grand tour stages. This is not "Good lord HOW does he do it material". It's a quality season by a rider who has always held this kind of promise. Tyler Farrar is not a 'nobody-to-stud' kind of rider, or however it was put. He's a multi-time junior nat. champ, U23 nat. champ, he won Abitibi when he was 18. He didn't go to Europe with Dejoenkheere and just fill in. He got results. He has always had the knack for winning. He's been in the Pro Tour for four years now. This is hardly a surprise.

I know, I know, the highly speculative thing is the way to go these days. I get it. I'm speculative too. I've been around cycling for a very long time. I'm far from naive. However, this case hardly smacks of something fishy.

Proceed.

 

[TRDean]

Well, I'm certainly not going to bother to comment on the skepticism vs. trust argument. We all know where that goes. To start and finish three grand tours is pretty ridiculous, but hardly open-and-shut evidence of doping. I personally don't believe in the 'you must dope to even ride in Europe' concept.

Now, in regards to Tyler Farrar. Yeah, what a stellar year. Really solid performances, obviously on some fantastic form right now. For starters, he did the first two weeks of the Giro and then pulled the plug. Then he did the Tour and had a good ride. Now he is about to ride the Vuelta. He hasn't started it or finished it yet. So essentially, this thread is questioning(albeit lightly) a season that is comprised of one and a half grand tours, and several solid wins. 3 in small-to-medium short stage races, one stage in a large stage race, a 'nouveau-classic', and several high placings in grand tour stages. This is not "Good lord HOW does he do it material". It's a quality season by a rider who has always held this kind of promise. Tyler Farrar is not a 'nobody-to-stud' kind of rider, or however it was put. He's a multi-time junior nat. champ, U23 nat. champ, he won Abitibi when he was 18. He didn't go to Europe with Dejoenkheere and just fill in. He got results. He has always had the knack for winning. He's been in the Pro Tour for four years now. This is hardly a surprise.

I know, I know, the highly speculative thing is the way to go these days. I get it. I'm speculative too. I've been around cycling for a very long time. I'm far from naive. However, this case hardly smacks of something fishy.

Proceed.

I agree with you to a point...but I do think that this is a pretty remarkable breakthrough this season...and I mean season. He has been winning since early on. Now I am not saying anything fishy is going on...but I will remain cautious. Someone a while back said Tyler would never touch the sauce because his parents would kill him...I believed that then, and I want to believe it now.

You have posted a nice rebuttal.

 

[Oldman]

I agree with you to a point...but I do think that this is a pretty remarkable breakthrough this season...and I mean season. He has been winning since early on. Now I am not saying anything fishy is going on...but I will remain cautious. Someone a while back said Tyler would never touch the sauce because his parents would kill him...I believed that then, and I want to believe it now.

You have posted a nice rebuttal.

Everyone has been very credible and responsible in raising cautionary notes. I had previously raised the parental influence qualifier. Tyler's dad is an orthopedic surgeon who has treated some of my teammates until he was struck by a truck. He's currently in a wheelchair and is beginning to train for hand-bike competition. Both parents were very active and supportive while Tyler was heinously overtrained by a semi-competent USA Cycling program that substituted excessive training for an actual racing budget. This somewhat explains his resiliency but you are all correct to speculate on his 3 Tour regimen. It is doubtful he'll survive some of the Vuelta climbs.

As for his cleanliness-we all hope he keeps it real. I've trained and raced with him; he has the pedigree and definitely has put his time in. You are also seeing a relatively cleaner peleton. Hopefully more young riders will benefit from that.

 

[blackcat]

sorry folks, but should not have people gotten the "nice guy, would never dope", "parents would never let him dope" justification, is the most ridiculous and absurd assumption. So what about the 1000 are so who are doping across the sport. What about their parents? What about Landis' parents. Was not that one of the reasons he could not come clean, because he could not disappoint his parents?

Nothing to do with Farrar.

BTW, Farrar won the bunch sprint home last year in Paris Tours. If Garmin had a stronger team, they would not have allowed Gilbert and Delage and whoever else, to ride off the front. He would also have a Paris Tours win. Now, qualified, a field sprint for the win, will be more sketchy, more competitive.

 

[Oldman]

sorry folks, but should not have people gotten the "nice guy, would never dope", "parents would never let him dope" justification, is the most ridiculous and absurd assumption. So what about the 1000 are so who are doping across the sport. What about their parents? What about Landis' parents. Was not that one of the reasons he could not come clean, because he could not disappoint his parents?

Nothing to do with Farrar.

BTW, Farrar won the bunch sprint home last year in Paris Tours. If Garmin had a stronger team, they would not have allowed Gilbert and Delage and whoever else, to ride off the front. He would also have a Paris Tours win. Now, qualified, a field sprint for the win, will be more sketchy, more competitive.

In this case and to the point he began riding with Garmin-his parent's day to day influence has serious bearing on the issue and is not absurd at all. Again, he is not from a "win at all costs" family mindset and doesn't come from a neighborhood that winks and nods at atheletes doing whatever it takes to win. This opinion comes from direct personal contact since he was a junior. Having said that; no one can determine what an individual's goals can drive them to do. As a cynic among cynics; he has my vote for the best real deal guy. It hasn't been that long since we've seen him locally.

By the way-we have racers around here that can beat him if he doesn't have team support. It happens to everyone.

 

[pedaling squares]

Yes, he has had a very impressive season thus far. But a few wins and 1.66 GT's completed, and already we're speculating about drug use? I appreciate that the TDF is extremely taxing on any rider, but this is a rider who spent the hill stages riding in the grupetto, not the breakaways. 25 is an age when many riders show strong improvements. Maybe we should give this man the benefit of the doubt at this point.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

I agree with you to a point...but I do think that this is a pretty remarkable breakthrough this season...and I mean season. He has been winning since early on. Now I am not saying anything fishy is going on...but I will remain cautious. Someone a while back said Tyler would never touch the sauce because his parents would kill him...I believed that then, and I want to believe it now.

You have posted a nice rebuttal.

While I agree he is having an excellent season I dont think we would be having this discussion if he rode the Dauphine or Tour of Suisse instead of the Giro.

Even with the few Pro Tour riders I know, I would never say that they are not using PED's but there is nothing in particular that stands out in Farrars season to lead me to be overtly suspicious.

He was injured earlier in the season - IIRC MSR- rode just two weeks of the Giro but didnt race again until the Tour

 

[blackcat]

In this case and to the point he began riding with Garmin-his parent's day to day influence has serious bearing on the issue and is not absurd at all. Again, he is not from a "win at all costs" family mindset and doesn't come from a neighborhood that winks and nods at atheletes doing whatever it takes to win. This opinion comes from direct personal contact since he was a junior. Having said that; no one can determine what an individual's goals can drive them to do. As a cynic among cynics; he has my vote for the best real deal guy. It hasn't been that long since we've seen him locally.

disagree. Hamilton was vaunted as the nicest guy in the peloton, and he turned out to be a psychopath. Floyd similarly. We are told all sorts of riders would not dope due to their background. This seems very much a puritanical version of US exceptionalism. I for one do not buy it. No comment on the individual Farrar to stress.

By the way-we have racers around here that can beat him if he doesn't have team support. It happens to everyone.

did you appreciate my point? The peloton had whittled down to about 30-40 riders, and about 6 popped off the front. This always happens late in the season at a race like Tours over 250kms. There are not enough riders from one team, with incentive enough to pull back the move off the front. So you will get six popp off the front, and no one will want to expend their remaining effort to pull them back. No one rider will put his nose in the wind. So Delage and Gilbert stay away, and the peloton does not sprint for a win. Farrar only wins the sprint home.

Now, besides Columbia, Farrar got the most support in the fireld sprints in the Tour. More than Thor in my eyes. He is fortunate to get alot of help. But his legs have showed he deserves the leadership and riders allocate to his equipe.

 

[blackcat]

Yes, he has had a very impressive season thus far. But a few wins and 1.66 GT's completed, and already we're speculating about drug use? I appreciate that the TDF is extremely taxing on any rider, but this is a rider who spent the hill stages riding in the grupetto, not the breakaways. 25 is an age when many riders show strong improvements. Maybe we should give this man the benefit of the doubt at this point.

again, the "riding in the gruppetto" argument. does not hold water. Sprinters still need help, they are not being paid to ride for classification. Conserve their enegry for the flat stages. Cav rides in the gruppetto, so he must be clean <eyes roll>

 

[blackcat]

Rumsas was a rider to whom I looked forward seeing in the Tour. He participated only at a late point in his career, but I expected him to do well, because he had always done well in tough races and stage races. I also remember seeing him tipped as outsider for the Tour by Dutch cycling magazine Wieler Revue, but for a year when he did not, in fact, participate!

So he wasn't someone who came completely out of the blue. His style of riding was not aggressive - I don't think he attacked at all, mostly trying to stay with the leaders. He also rode good TTs, although in the final Tour TT his handlebar wasn't fixed properly, which probably cost him time.

He finished third that year anyway, and a few days later a large supply of doping products were found in his wife's car.

As far as Wiggings is concerned, this does not have to mean anything, but the Rumsas case does invalidate some arguments that have been used in Wiggins' defence. Rumsas was, for me, a podium candidate based on his previous performance, and his style of riding did not seem unrealistic. In fact he followed the same strategy as Wiggings.

Rumsas won Lombardia in 99 right? He had pedigree. Did Armstrong ever win Liege? No.

But you will have nuff nuff 99'ers, mostly Americans, but alot of anglophones, see the Armstrong fans in Adelaide and Scotland for instance, who just say, "oh Rumsas, fraud, knew it". Well, he did have a very solid palmares.

 

[Oldman]

disagree. Hamilton was vaunted as the nicest guy in the peloton, and he turned out to be a psychopath. Floyd similarly. We are told all sorts of riders would not dope due to their background. This seems very much a puritanical version of US exceptionalism. I for one do not buy it. No comment on the individual Farrar to stress.

I wasn't selling it-I was vouching for the sincere effort on their part. No puritanical element involved, either. His parents didn't want to see him jeopardize his health or cheat. As I said; what he does with that is up to him. As for Hamilton; the USAC protected him from view. We all knew what was going on before he turned pro so the naivete factor is real low.

Did appreciate your note on the type of win. Much easier at the end of the season if you're on the upswing.

 

[Oldman]

Burn the witch!

We're not done with the Ducking stool phase. Go ahead and get the coals lit, though.