unified Grand Tour planning rules?

[Singer01]

are there any things which you think should be mandatory when the various organisers are planning a route for a grand tour? no more than 100km of time trialling, no fewer than 30, no fewer than 3 MTF's etc. or do you like the flexibility that gives each of the 3 grand tours a certain 'feel'.

for me the most important would be that
a) there should always be a hair raising descent finish
b) TTT must be short enough to stop anybody blowing their overall chances, but long enough to have an impact
c) no, or very small time bonuses on MTF
d) at least 2 stages before the first rest day that have a potential impact
e) the queen stage must look so horrendous that when you look at the profile you wince, and then giggle
f) a new or not used for f'ing ages MTF

 

[Pricey_sky]

Of the 21 stages i would want 7 sprint stages, 6 medium mountain/hilly stages, 6 mountains stages (of which 1 should have a tough descent finish and 5 MTF's), A long iTT of 40-50km that is flatt(ish) and either a short prologue or TTT. No time bonuses either.

 

[rghysens]

*) NO ttt
*) 75 - 100km itt
*) at most 1 mtf, and only if on the first mountain stage. That MTF should not rather "easy", and preceded by some other climbs that favor long range attacks. But enough mountain stages to compensate for the itt's.
*) at least one long mountain stage (220 -240km), with a sequence of at least 4 climbs without to much valley in between.
*) 1 or 2 classic-like flattish/hilly stages (long; strade bianche, cobbles or a relentless sequence of short and steep hills.
*) 7 - 8 stages designed for a mass sprint
*) something to favor long range attacks.

 

[jens_attacks]

If use an TTT, it must be over 50 kms
No less than 100 kms of ITT
At least 5 mountain stages
At least a 250 kms brutal mountain stage, over 7 hours

 

[Velolover2]

I think it's charming to GTs are different. The Vuelta should always have fewer opportunities for the sprinters and more hill/mountain stages. The Tour, on the other hand, should have a long flat og hilly TT over 40k.

 

[Netserk]

No Kittel stages. There can be 'flat' stages, but with some real chance for either the botd or some late attackers. Saint-Etienne and Bergerac last year were both fine as sprint stages. Only stages with significant/probable chance of crosswinds should be dead flat.

No restdays (perhaps one if really needed due to logistics).

Total distance should be over 4,000km.

 

[Escarabajo]

I'd say at least two brutal montain stages 250+ that make the green jersey worthy of the winner!

 

[Fernandez]

A prologue to start (5-10 kms), first week with flat and hilly stages and then a long ITT (40-50 kms), rest day, second week with hilly and mountains stages, rest day, and the last week also with hilly and mountains stages but with another long ITT in the middle. The last stage is of course a flat stage.
The average distance of the stages should be 190-200 kms.

 

[Catwhoorg]

I like that le Tour includes cobbles sometimes

I Like the Giro to include some gravel roads sometimes.

Not eveyr year should have a prologue, not every year should have a TTT.

Some years should be heavy in ITT, other years heavy in medium mountains, other years for the real mountain goats.


Embrace the differences.

 

[PremierAndrew]

Re:

No Kittel stages. There can be 'flat' stages, but with some real chance for either the botd or some late attackers. Saint-Etienne and Bergerac last year were both fine as sprint stages. Only stages with significant/probable chance of crosswinds should be dead flat.

No restdays (perhaps one if really needed due to logistics).

Total distance should be over 4,000km.

No rest days? As if a GTs aren't brutal enough as it is...

Could consider one rest day but no rest days is just excessive, and would need to be compensated by MT stages being much easier. As for no plan flat stages, well I'd say that the final stage should always be perfectly pan flat, but yea, before that there should be at least one category 4 bump within the final 20km or a sharp uncategorised climb within the final 3kms

 

[ferryman]

I do like the TTT as a spectacle but it can skew things. In my ideal world, the TDF at least, would have a decent sized flat ITT balanced out by a hilly/mountain ITT of a similar length. Cobbles in the first week, why not. A blistering mountain descent, yes please. And, again, in the TDF, some new climbs rather than the same old that are too far out to make a difference...

 

[Asero831]

OT: 9 rider per team but only max 6 riders is allowed to race per team per stage.

 

[ferryman]

Re:

OT: 9 rider per team but only max 6 riders is allowed to race per team per stage.

Interesting, I think I like your thinking on this

 

[Velolover2]

Re:

No Kittel stages. There can be 'flat' stages, but with some real chance for either the botd or some late attackers. Saint-Etienne and Bergerac last year were both fine as sprint stages. Only stages with significant/probable chance of crosswinds should be dead flat.

No restdays (perhaps one if really needed due to logistics).

Total distance should be over 4,000km.

What about at least a couple of Paris-Tours-ish? Almost flat but on narrow rural routes. That will allow large engines and aggressive domestiques to actually win something. There are not enough chances for rouleurs who aren't afraid to attack.

 

[Tigerion]

I liek that each tour has it's own feel and that different riders can target them. If anything I would like them to embrace that a litle more
Giro as a brutal mountainous tour for the true goats, very little TT, MTFs and multi mountain stages. Should be won by the best climber
TDF as the all rounder, long ITT, to balance the mountains. Should be possible for somebody who isn't the best climber to win if the smash the ITT
Veulta for the explosive climber. Long stages but less steep climbers

OT: 9 rider per team but only max 6 riders is allowed to race per team per stage.

How does that work for GC? To be eligible for GC you need to ride every stage?

 

[Asero831]

Re:

^^Yes ofcourse. But mountain domestiques need not ride flat stages.This will also animate the race as stage hunters can have a rest day prior to the stage they are targeting.

Imagine Gallopin and Kwiat resting on the first week and dominating the mountains in the 2nd week. It also allows Aru, Uran, Pozzovivo and Porte to ride the Tour after their Giro stint.

Imagine a breakway of Aru, Uran, Pozzovivo, Porte, Majka, Kwiat contesting the mountains jersey while the GC battle down the road with Froome, Contador, Nibali, Quintana.

 

[RedheadDane]

The organisers of the GTs should have a short meeting to make sure the routes aren't too similar. After each route had already been planned, mind you, otherwise it would risk ending up as a route-planning meeting. If there was to be found any striking similarities a solution would have to be found. (Helpful, I know)
Routes shouldn't be too similar to last year's either (for the same GT).

Maybe also some kind of rule regarding foreign starts to make sure there aren't too many of those in a row, especially for the same country such as what happened back in 2010 with both the Giro and Tour starting in the Netherlands - which of course the Vuelta also did in 2009. Three GT starts in a row in the same country; maybe a bit too much.

 

[TMP402]

Re:

No Kittel stages. There can be 'flat' stages, but with some real chance for either the botd or some late attackers. Saint-Etienne and Bergerac last year were both fine as sprint stages. Only stages with significant/probable chance of crosswinds should be dead flat.

I like this a lot.

Maybe also some kind of rule regarding foreign starts to make sure there aren't too many of those in a row, especially for the same country such as what happened back in 2010 with both the Giro and Tour starting in the Netherlands - which of course the Vuelta also did in 2009. Three GT starts in a row in the same country; maybe a bit too much.

This happened again just last year: Giro and Tour both started in the UK.

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Whilst the character of the Vuelta is that sprinters get fewer chances than at the other two GTs, I would do something to allow a more consistent type of winner to emerge, preferably a puncheur. at the moment it's between a sprinter who dominates the flat stages, and a GC contender. The last five Vuelta points jerseys were won by Degenkolb, Valverde, Valverde, Mollema and Cavendish. It's also possible to win the points jersey without winning many stages. GVA won it in 2008 with only one stage win.