Upgrade - the bike or just the frame?

[Archibald]

The opportunity is coming up to be able to spend a bit on the road bike - currently a 2004 model OCR1. The Groupset is completely Ultegra, which was upgraded from the original model's 105...
Unfortunately, to upgrade to a complete new bike with similar groupset is a tad more exorbidant that I can justify, hence the idea of just upgrading the frame and going with the current ultegra setup.

So, new frame and ultegra (plus all the right bits from the old bike - saddle, correct length headset, properly sized handlebars, etc...), or complete bike with 105 (or 105/ultegra combo)?


(I'll clarify that I don't know a great deal about the order of Campy groupsets, and really no interest in Sram)

 

[marathon marke]

A couple thoughts...

First, do you have a second road bike? If not, does having a ready backup important to you? If it is, and if getting a new bike with new Ultregra is not affordable, then I would get the new bike with lower components. Then swap your present components around with the newer, lower priced ones (that is if your present components are still in good shape), putting them on the new frame. That way your new bike will have the (better) Ultegra, and your backup bike will have the lower grade components, which is really only for backup (or poor weather) anyway.

If you don't feel a need for a backup bike, or already have one, just get the new frame.

 

[brianf7]

I just got a new frame thought my missus wouldnt notice if I only got the frame
but while out training the courier delivered it and she had to sign. OOOPs!!!!

SO what I have done is up grade the Campy gear levers from old chorus to new Centurer also front and rear mech .
Dont want 11 speed so my wheels will work in all bikes

now have a new bike almost with new running gear and spare stuff for my 2nd bike when I need to replace parts on it.

Lot depends if you can build it your self.

 

[42x16ss]

Hmmm can we get a little more info?

What condition is your Ultegra groupset in? How much life is left in it? Are you still happy with it?

Are you racing often, occasionally or just having fun?

What frame(s) or bike(s) are you looking at?

How much are you willing to part with?

If you are on a tight budget a 2011 Cannondale CAAD 10 with new 105 is only $2200 Aus and will be a lot better than your Giant, especially if you have a set of race wheels to replace the RS10's that come with it. This is a VERY impressive bike for the price (I know I just bought one).

If you are happy with your components and just want a decent affordable frame then give the pedalforce site a look.

 

[flyor64]

How much "work" are you willing to do? In addition to that question, do you have any issue with brand name vs. no name?

I've been reading alot about the carbon frames coming out of China and Taiwan, and think I've narrowed it down to a couple of legit vendors.

If this is an option you'd consider let me know...I can shoot you what I've got so far and might save you a little time researching (there's something like 6000 posts on RBR to go through).

We're talking full carbon frame, paint of your choice, and any bits you may want for in the neighborhood of USD 550 delivered. Around a grand with a 38mm or 50mm carbon wheelset...

NB - your country's customs is not applied to the price...for instance I'm guaranteed at 25% customs on top of that here in Norway, but I here stateside folks receive their frames all the time with little to no customs added on...

BroDeal tipped me off and knows quite a bit about it as well I think.

Good luck!

 

[Barracuda]

Upgrade the frame ......... thats what Im looking to do as Ive already got decent "running gear". Also new bar and stem that fits me, so frame is my option (and cheaper from the "Minister for war and peice" perspective).

Then I will put the US postal Trek frame Im riding now on the wall in the shed. (remember this is not the clinic site, no pointless barbs at ol LA please)

Anyone know of NEIL PRYDE frames coming into OZ?? Alize looks like a stealth fighter!!

 

[Bustedknuckle]

The opportunity is coming up to be able to spend a bit on the road bike - currently a 2004 model OCR1. The Groupset is completely Ultegra, which was upgraded from the original model's 105...
Unfortunately, to upgrade to a complete new bike with similar groupset is a tad more exorbidant that I can justify, hence the idea of just upgrading the frame and going with the current ultegra setup.

So, new frame and ultegra (plus all the right bits from the old bike - saddle, correct length headset, properly sized handlebars, etc...), or complete bike with 105 (or 105/ultegra combo)?


(I'll clarify that I don't know a great deal about the order of Campy groupsets, and really no interest in Sram)

What problem are you trying to solve, what question are you trying to answer with regards to your present bicycle?

 

[Archibald]

Okay, let's answer a few of your questions...

First, do you have a second road bike?

I have a singlespeed commuter and MTB - a good on-road, a good off-road and a hack-about. Really don't want a second road bike.

Hmmm can we get a little more info?

What condition is your Ultegra groupset in? How much life is left in it? Are you still happy with it?

Are you racing often, occasionally or just having fun?

What frame(s) or bike(s) are you looking at?

How much are you willing to part with?

Groupset is in good nick - well looked after - and I'm plenty happy with it.

Not road "racing", however do sportive's and cyclo's. Have an eye to do crits at some point.

Looking at BMC, Ridley, Felt, Bianchi, Cannondale, Jamis, (even Scott and Specialized) and am open to most others.

budget at around £2,000 to £2,500

How much "work" are you willing to do? In addition to that question, do you have any issue with brand name vs. no name?

As little as possible...

What problem are you trying to solve, what question are you trying to answer with regards to your present bicycle?

basically, it looks like i'll have to move from the UK to Aus, and would like to take the opportunity to upgrade to a higher quality because it'll be far cheaper to do here than later in Aus...

 

[Notso Swift]

I think you have answered your own question, while there is better "value" in a built bike what you want here is a frame. If you were doing your own labour you could buy a bike, swap the bits and sell the other as a runner, but if you aren't it wouldn't be worth the labour costs... and parts rarely make good prices.
Brand questions are some thing different. Too personal, but Ridley and BMC would be up there for me. The other would be something like a Canyon, which are not sold in Aus and would stand out from the bunch


BTW Aus isn't too dear at all, it israre for people to go retail, PBK and Wiggle are free post over a value (and only about GBP6 otherwise, and under AUD1000 there is no tax on imports. over and GST is 10%, compare to VAT...
Freight from the US to AU is dear, about $100 for a frame or wheels, but put it into perspective... I just got some Reynolds Attack Tubulars for AUD920 delivered, that is about GBP600

 

[Archibald]

I think you have answered your own question, while there is better "value" in a built bike what you want here is a frame. If you were doing your own labour you could buy a bike, swap the bits and sell the other as a runner, but if you aren't it wouldn't be worth the labour costs... and parts rarely make good prices.
Brand questions are some thing different. Too personal, but Ridley and BMC would be up there for me. The other would be something like a Canyon, which are not sold in Aus and would stand out from the bunch


BTW Aus isn't too dear at all, it israre for people to go retail, PBK and Wiggle are free post over a value (and only about GBP6 otherwise, and under AUD1000 there is no tax on imports. over and GST is 10%, compare to VAT...
Freight from the US to AU is dear, about $100 for a frame or wheels, but put it into perspective... I just got some Reynolds Attack Tubulars for AUD920 delivered, that is about GBP600

fair call.
i'm no bike mechanic...
the chance to bring back a better bike without customs costs being added to it is too good to miss

 

[dsut4392]

fair call.
i'm no bike mechanic...
the chance to bring back a better bike without customs costs being added to it is too good to miss

To add a bit more to the picture as painted by Notso Swift, you will actually find that bike gear purchased in Australia from UK websites is cheaper than if purchased in the UK - we don't have to pay UK VAT (18% now right?)at all, and only have to pay GST (at a rate of only 10%) if the purchase is over $1000. The customs handling charge is about AU$80 (GBP50) IIRC.

Looking at your budget of GBP2200:
2200/1.18 = 1864 ex-VAT.
1864 x 1.1 = 2050 inc GST
2050 + 50 = 2100 inc GST and customs

This leaves you GBP100 ahead, which would probably cover shipping for a bike from the likes of CRC, Wiggle, PBK, Ribble etc.

The last piece of the puzzle: how are yo uplanning on getting the bike here if you buy in the UK?
H
ave you flown with a bike? It's a pain, and unless you're travelling via the US you'll most likely have to pay exorbitant excess baggage charges. Been there done that, AUS-UK with Tokyo stopover, cost me 260 euros when I tried to check the bikes in for the second leg from Tokyo to LHR, and about 12000 Yen to leave the bikes at Narita instead of dragging them in to town.

"Aha" he says, "No problem as I'll be shipping the bike with the rest of my household goods". But the picture doesn't look so rosy when you realise it will take MONTHS for your household goods to arrive via international removalist. Been there done that too, it was precisely 6 months from collection in Exeter UK to delivery in Hobart Aus. Subtract a few months if shipping from London direct to Sydney/Melbourne and if you have a whole container, but 3 months is probably the best you can expect. Thankfully I had a couple of other bikes to ride which I had left in storage while I was in the UK...

 

[Archibald]

To add a bit more to the picture as painted by Notso Swift, you will actually find that bike gear purchased in Australia from UK websites is cheaper than if purchased in the UK - we don't have to pay UK VAT (18% now right?)at all, and only have to pay GST (at a rate of only 10%) if the purchase is over $1000. The customs handling charge is about AU$80 (GBP50) IIRC.

Looking at your budget of GBP2200:
2200/1.18 = 1864 ex-VAT.
1864 x 1.1 = 2050 inc GST
2050 + 50 = 2100 inc GST and customs

This leaves you GBP100 ahead, which would probably cover shipping for a bike from the likes of CRC, Wiggle, PBK, Ribble etc.

The last piece of the puzzle: how are yo uplanning on getting the bike here if you buy in the UK?
H
ave you flown with a bike? It's a pain, and unless you're travelling via the US you'll most likely have to pay exorbitant excess baggage charges. Been there done that, AUS-UK with Tokyo stopover, cost me 260 euros when I tried to check the bikes in for the second leg from Tokyo to LHR, and about 12000 Yen to leave the bikes at Narita instead of dragging them in to town.

"Aha" he says, "No problem as I'll be shipping the bike with the rest of my household goods". But the picture doesn't look so rosy when you realise it will take MONTHS for your household goods to arrive via international removalist. Been there done that too, it was precisely 6 months from collection in Exeter UK to delivery in Hobart Aus. Subtract a few months if shipping from London direct to Sydney/Melbourne and if you have a whole container, but 3 months is probably the best you can expect. Thankfully I had a couple of other bikes to ride which I had left in storage while I was in the UK...

a couple of things stand out here -

shipping - shipping time is 3 months. There's no problem shipping early, nor the fact that I'll be looking to do well over a month's travelling before getting home... The time difference is not a concern for me.
I have travelled with a bike before, on numerous occasions, and have never had any issues.

VAT - this can be reclaimed on non-duty free items for non-UK nationals. There's a small counter "hidden" (not particularly obvious) in the corner of the heathrow terminals where you can take your receipts to be refunded. As far as I'm aware, this is still in operation, but I could be wrong...

purchase - it won't be over the net from pbk, chainreaction, wiggle, etc...

 

[dsut4392]

a couple of things stand out here -

shipping - shipping time is 3 months. There's no problem shipping early, nor the fact that I'll be looking to do well over a month's travelling before getting home... The time difference is not a concern for me.
I have travelled with a bike before, on numerous occasions, and have never had any issues.

VAT - this can be reclaimed on non-duty free items for non-UK nationals. There's a small counter "hidden" (not particularly obvious) in the corner of the heathrow terminals where you can take your receipts to be refunded. As far as I'm aware, this is still in operation, but I could be wrong...

purchase - it won't be over the net from pbk, chainreaction, wiggle, etc...

So long as you know exactly what you're getting yourself into.

1. You're either travelling with the bike, or shipping it, not both. Claiming the VAT refund if you're shipping the goods as opposed to travelling with them is a pain. Travelling for "well over a month" with a bike in a box is also a pain unless you can leave the box somewhere...
2.If you happen to have UK or other EU citizenship (I do), proving non-domicile status in order to reclaim VAT for export is a pain.
3. Yes, you can reclaim VAT but your LBS or wherever you're purchasing from has to be registered with the VAT Retail Export Scheme and you need to do the paperwork on purchase. It's not like the similar scheme in Australia where all you need is the purchase receipt.
4. Shipping time "is" however long it takes between when your goods are picked up and when they are delivered. That isn't necessarily what your removalist says it will be. I was quoted "12 to 18 weeks maximum" and it took 26 weeks...
5. I've travelled with a bike without issue on other occasions too, if that's the way you go I hope your trouble-free run continues.

 

[Archibald]

So long as you know exactly what you're getting yourself into.

1. You're either travelling with the bike, or shipping it, not both. Claiming the VAT refund if you're shipping the goods as opposed to travelling with them is a pain. Travelling for "well over a month" with a bike in a box is also a pain unless you can leave the box somewhere...
2.If you happen to have UK or other EU citizenship (I do), proving non-domicile status in order to reclaim VAT for export is a pain.
3. Yes, you can reclaim VAT but your LBS or wherever you're purchasing from has to be registered with the VAT Retail Export Scheme and you need to do the paperwork on purchase. It's not like the similar scheme in Australia where all you need is the purchase receipt.

you make valid points and I appreciate your input - especially 3. above.
Re point 1 - my travelling comment was just my experience, not necessarily what way the final plan may be. At the moment it looks like friends of mine will also be moving home to Aus and as they're a full family are looking at a container - they've offered me space on it, so could work out very well.
For point 2, I'm not a UK or EU national, so this is easy to do, although point 3 may scupper that!

Anyway, an example of something I've seen lately...

BMC Roadracer SL01 2011
UK
New (total) Bike: £2600
Frameset: £1,550 (shop quoted approx. £100 to build - swapping out my current frame) Total: £1,650 ($2,640 Aus on exchange rate of 1.6)
Aus
New Bike: $4,595 (£2,871 on exchange rate of 1.6)