VinoKourov and Kolobnev charged with corruption

[MatParker117]

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/vinokourov-and-kolobnev-to-face-corruption-charges/

Belgian prosecutors have decided that Astana team manager Alexandr Vinokourov and Katusha rider Alexandr Kolobnev must stand trial on corruption charges, according to a report on Sky Sports News.

Belgian courts have been investigating the pair since last year, looking into the allegations that Vinokourov bought his 2010 Liege-Bastogne-Liege victory, and have decided that there is sufficient evidence for them to stand trial. If found guilty, Vinokourov and Kolobnev could face anywhere between six months and three years in prison and a fine of €300,000-€600,000.

Vinokourov won his second Liege-Bestogne-Liege after he distanced Kolobnev in the final 600 metres. In 2011, the Swiss L'Illustre magazine accused Vinokourov of paying Kolobnev €100,000 to let him win the race and later published emails between the two that appeared to indicate an agreement between them.

Both should be banned for life and Astana's licence should be revoked if convicted. This type of behaviour taints the sport.

 

[BigMac]

This is great news.

 

[Pricey_sky]

Re:

This is great news.

Agreed. Hope they both do time for it, however I'm sure they will worm their way out of it somehow.

 

[jsem94]

Vino? He will make all the jurors go to jail instead of him.

In all honesty though, they will probably end up sneaking their way out of this. Maybe not a full acquittal, but no jail time for anyone.

 

[WildspokeJoe]

Doesn't this happen all the time? I even thought Paul Kimmage said something about trying to make a deal in his book 'Rough Ride'

 

[hrotha]

Re:

Doesn't this happen all the time? I even thought Paul Kimmage said something about trying to make a deal in his book 'Rough Ride'

There's a subforum down there that deals with stuff that happens all the time but which is still pretty illegal in many countries.

 

[MatParker117]

Re:

Doesn't this happen all the time? I even thought Paul Kimmage said something about trying to make a deal in his book 'Rough Ride'

still fraud

 

[markene2]

Blyat..

 

[Red Rick]

Good that hey do this, but I think hell freezes over before Vino and Kolobnev do jail time for this.

Can Gilbert then finally win his second LBL by winning the 2010 edition some 6 years later, whilst originally finishing 4th?

 

[hmronnow]

I fully agree that if they made a deal, that is wrong. But how wrong?
Supposedly here money was exchanged, but exactly how different is that from a situation in a stage race, where a GC and a non-GC rider work together with the agreement that the GC rider will let the non-GC rider win the stage? In that case there is not a direct transfer of money, but the non-GC rider gets a win (perhaps some prize money) and chance to increase salary in the future.
One could extrapolate to the situation where a break-away agrees to work together. One of them will win, which will lead to future monetary gain. The difference now is that there is an uncertainty in who gains, but 1/10th chance is better than 1/180th chance.
This is not to say that making a monetary deal is acceptable, simply that I find it in a different, less serious league to e.g. doping. In all the scenarios above the number of riders involved have to make it to and stay at the front of the race by their own power.

Secondly, as for who would have won the race without such a deal, it might be worth to remember that the two of them were at the front of the race. Had they worked together and then sprinted for it, one of them would have won.
It can of course be argued that without a deal they would not have worked together, but that enters the what-if category.
One might dislike Vinokourov for various reasons, but it cannot be denied that he was one of the two people at the front of that race.

All of the above is discussing just the aspect of agreements between riders and the direct or indirect monetary gains thereof, under the hypothetical assumption that none or all visited the clinic.

 

[Afrank]

Vino will probably pay off the jury and get off. Kolobnev might go down though, he has to have spent that money by now.

 

[Alanfresco]

Good riddance to him.

 

[Brullnux]

Re:

Vino will probably pay off the jury and get off. Kolobnev might go down though, he has to have spent that money by now.

Vino should pull a Bernie Ecclestone. Accused of bribery/fraud? Just pay the court $100m. That will fix it

 

[Irondan]

I'd be pretty irritated if I was Belgian and my country was spending a bunch of money to prosecute cyclists for doing something that has been done a lot through the years...

An absolute waste of time, energy and money. To be fair, the US spends billions of $ prosecuting people for stupid charges every year. It's shameful.

A halfway decent hack of an attorney should be able to handle this case without breaking a sweat.

 

[ray j willings]

Re:

I'd be pretty irritated if I was Belgian and my country was spending a bunch of money to prosecute cyclists for doing something that has been done a lot through the years...

An absolute waste of time, energy and money. To be fair, the US spends billions of $ prosecuting people for stupid charges every year. It's shameful.

A halfway decent hack of an attorney should be able to handle this case without breaking a sweat.

I agree. Surly people have better things to do than waste shed loads of money on the outcome of a two horse race.
There is all kinds of stuff going on and nobody cares anyway apart from Vino haters who want him hung for just doing what everyone else does in cycling , dope and deals between teams.

Its a sport nothing else. It has no effect on the outcome of real world issues and should be treated that way.
In real terms it means nothing. If you get upset so much by sport that you want to see athletes go to prison because they won a race unfairly then perhaps a quick look at what's going on in the world might put things in proportion.
I hope this gets dropped and they live happy ever after. If that statement makes some of you angry I don't care at least it does not make me a hypocrite.

 

[jens_attacks]

waste of tax money. they should learn cycling history, it's part of the game.

 

[Afrank]

Re: Re:

I'd be pretty irritated if I was Belgian and my country was spending a bunch of money to prosecute cyclists for doing something that has been done a lot through the years...

An absolute waste of time, energy and money. To be fair, the US spends billions of $ prosecuting people for stupid charges every year. It's shameful.

A halfway decent hack of an attorney should be able to handle this case without breaking a sweat.

I agree. Surly people have better things to do than waste shed loads of money on the outcome of a two horse race.
There is all kinds of stuff going on and nobody cares anyway apart from Vino haters who want him hung for just doing what everyone else does in cycling , dope and deals between teams.

Its a sport nothing else. It has no effect on the outcome of real world issues and should be treated that way.
In real terms it means nothing. If you get upset so much by sport that you want to see athletes go to prison because they won a race unfairly then perhaps a quick look at what's going on in the world might put things in proportion.
I hope this gets dropped and they live happy ever after. If that statement makes some of you angry I don't care at least it does not make me a hypocrite.

I'm in no way a vino hater, as a rider I like his style and approach to races very much. At the same time though I feel there should be reparation in some form.

Just because this may be something that is widely done in cycling does not make it acceptable. It is still against the rules, and when exposed it should be punished in accordance to the rules.

 

[joe_papp]

Re:

Vino? He will make all the jurors go to jail instead of him.

In all honesty though, they will probably end up sneaking their way out of this. Maybe not a full acquittal, but no jail time for anyone.

Jesus - why should they even be tried for this? For their stupidity in leaving a digital trail and not just making the deal verbally, and failing to be exchanging bank details by hand-written note?

What next? Allan Peiper also being made to stand trial for stealing sugar beats from Belgian fields on the way home from training rides and races, and making deals buying and selling kermesse races while actually cheating his conspirators out of the promised money/reward (which he gleefully admits to in his biography, A Peiper's Tale)?

At least Vino actually paid Kolobnev (allegedly)...

I'm in no way a vino hater, as a rider I like his style and approach to races very much. At the same time though I feel there should be reparation in some form.

Reparations? To whom? After all, Vino allegedly followed through and paid Kolobnev what they agreed on. Who's the victim here? The State? Surely not...

Just because this may be something that is widely done in cycling does not make it acceptable. It is still against the rules, and when exposed it should be punished in accordance to the rules.

Ahhh, so you object to the fact that they "got caught" buying/selling a race by virtue of being exposed by nefarious and corrupt journalists who themselves likely committed crimes by hacking the original emails...

 

[hrotha]

Re: Re:

Jesus - why should they even be tried for this? For their stupidity in leaving a digital trail and not just making the deal verbally, and failing to be exchanging bank details by hand-written note?

What's your point? "Your honour, it's true that you did find incriminating evidence, but it shouldn't count because I could easily have been more careful and you wouldn't have found ***!"

 

[the delgados]

I think the point is perhaps another crime has been committed.
The first question that came to mind when reading the story was how the hell the emails were obtained.
Races have been bought since the sport's inception. Not saying it's right, but it doesn't surprise.

 

[Billie]

Re:

Doesn't this happen all the time? I even thought Paul Kimmage said something about trying to make a deal in his book 'Rough Ride'

Exactly. Every 2 man break ever.

 

[Stilletto]

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/vinokourov-and-kolobnev-to-face-corruption-charges/

Belgian prosecutors have decided that Astana team manager Alexandr Vinokourov and Katusha rider Alexandr Kolobnev must stand trial on corruption charges, according to a report on Sky Sports News.

Belgian courts have been investigating the pair since last year, looking into the allegations that Vinokourov bought his 2010 Liege-Bastogne-Liege victory, and have decided that there is sufficient evidence for them to stand trial. If found guilty, Vinokourov and Kolobnev could face anywhere between six months and three years in prison and a fine of €300,000-€600,000.

Vinokourov won his second Liege-Bestogne-Liege after he distanced Kolobnev in the final 600 metres. In 2011, the Swiss L'Illustre magazine accused Vinokourov of paying Kolobnev €100,000 to let him win the race and later published emails between the two that appeared to indicate an agreement between them.

Both should be banned for life and Astana's licence should be revoked if convicted. This type of behaviour taints the sport.

So both banned for life ? They don't ride anymore right ?
What's the point in that ?
Astana loose it's licence ? Why ? Please explain why that should happen ?
To me this seems like a waste of taxpayers money,

And even so the only thing that should come of it either jail time or fine payed to the organisers...

 

[Stilletto]

Wow just watched the finish video... Really who could tell ? Kolobnev looks cooked....
If they get done for it, give the man an Oscar atleast !

 

[Eyeballs Out]

Re:

Wow just watched the finish video... Really who could tell ? Kolobnev looks cooked....
If they get done for it, give the man an Oscar atleast !

It could have been a straight finish - just that the winner pays the loser an agreed sum, in other words an insurance bet. I don't know how much a monument is worth. The prize money is about 20,000E I think but I suppose much more in terms of contract/endorsements etc

 

[ray j willings]

Re: Re:

I'd be pretty irritated if I was Belgian and my country was spending a bunch of money to prosecute cyclists for doing something that has been done a lot through the years...

An absolute waste of time, energy and money. To be fair, the US spends billions of $ prosecuting people for stupid charges every year. It's shameful.

A halfway decent hack of an attorney should be able to handle this case without breaking a sweat.

I agree. Surly people have better things to do than waste shed loads of money on the outcome of a two horse race.
There is all kinds of stuff going on and nobody cares anyway apart from Vino haters who want him hung for just doing what everyone else does in cycling , dope and deals between teams.

Its a sport nothing else. It has no effect on the outcome of real world issues and should be treated that way.
In real terms it means nothing. If you get upset so much by sport that you want to see athletes go to prison because they won a race unfairly then perhaps a quick look at what's going on in the world might put things in proportion.
I hope this gets dropped and they live happy ever after. If that statement makes some of you angry I don't care at least it does not make me a hypocrite.

I'm in no way a vino hater, as a rider I like his style and approach to races very much. At the same time though I feel there should be reparation in some form.

Just because this may be something that is widely done in cycling does not make it acceptable. It is still against the rules, and when exposed it should be punished in accordance to the rules.

The way I see it. is like this. They made a deal and they are both happy. One of them would have won anyway.
Its not the crime of the century under the circumstances. They have not cheated anyone else out of a win. If that's a crime, what about all the times in F1 When a driver is told to let a team mate win because it's beneficial to the team financially to have a world champion. Millions involved in that sport. That is a equal fraudulent act.
Talk of jail and the cost of prosecution costs etc the whole thing is just stupid. As usual the lawyers will be happy.