What about Bugno?

[ultimobici]

I was leafing through some old Giro/Tour annuals recently. Bugno was 4 years younger than Fignon & Lemond so would have been at his theoretical peak at the dawn of EPO use.

Having had a steady progression from turning pro in 86 he broke through by winning the 1990 Giro where he led from start to finish. He then had a couple of good seasons but not in the same vein at all. Couple that with Fignon's comments about his stage racing, what gives? Crap programme or evidence that EPO was not always as great?

 

[hrotha]

I always assumed he was a very good one-day rider who benefitted from early EPO usage to become a GT contender and who faded once more people got on the good stuff, because assuming is fun.

Of course, I wasn't around during Bugno's early career so I don't know if he had the potential or not.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

I was leafing through some old Giro/Tour annuals recently. Bugno was 4 years younger than Fignon & Lemond so would have been at his theoretical peak at the dawn of EPO use.

Having had a steady progression from turning pro in 86 he broke through by winning the 1990 Giro where he led from start to finish. He then had a couple of good seasons but not in the same vein at all. Couple that with Fignon's comments about his stage racing, what gives? Crap programme or evidence that EPO was not always as great?

It is just my opinion - but I always believed that Bugno was one of the first to benefit from using EPO with a supervised programme under Conconi.

He had a poor 88 & 89 but he had an amazing recovery in 1990 - which he said was the result of having his ears treated for a problem with his balance, which effected him on descents!
Amazingly this procedure also made him TT better and climb like a goat....

The reason I think he only got one really good year was that other better riders copied his template and his initial advantage disappeared.

 

[ultimobici]

I always assumed he was a very good one-day rider who benefitted from early EPO usage to become a GT contender and who faded once more people got on the good stuff, because assuming is fun.

Of course, I wasn't around during Bugno's early career so I don't know if he had the potential or not.

Had to look it up

86 Giro 41st @ 1hr
87 Giro DNF
88 Giro DNF Tour 62nd @1hr19'
89 Giro 23rd @ 32'23" Tour 11th @ 24'12"
90 Giro Winner Tour 7th @9'39"
91 Giro 4th Tour 2nd
92 Giro DNS Tour 2nd
93 Giro 18th Tour 20th

It seems strange that he wasn't better able to compete, bearing in mind an interview with Gianluca Stanga the DS of Gatorade. In it he was asked about the budget he had. his answer was that it had no cap!

 

[ultimobici]

It is just my opinion - but I always believed that Bugno was one of the first to benefit from using EPO with a supervised programme under Conconi.

He had a poor 88 & 89 but he had an amazing recovery in 1990 - which he said was the result of having his ears treated for a problem with his balance, which effected him on descents!
Amazingly this procedure also made him TT better and climb like a goat....

The reason I think he only got one really good year was that other better riders copied his template and his initial advantage disappeared.

That makes sense.

 

[Leopejo]

The reason I think he only got one really good year was that other better riders copied his template and his initial advantage disappeared.

I consider his '91 or '92 better than his '90, both in stage races and one day classics.

 

[ultimobici]

I consider his '91 or '92 better than his '90, both in stage races and one day classics.

In 1990 he led the Giro from start to finish. He was also the first rider since Merckx to do it and only Binda and Giradengo had before that. It's been 20 years since his victory and the record still stands.

 

[Leopejo]

In 1990 he led the Giro from start to finish. He was also the first rider since Merckx to do it and only Binda and Giradengo had before that. It's been 20 years since his victory and the record still stands.

I remember it well, but I still consider his 1991 and 1992 Tours at a higher level, considering the opposition.

 

[rhubroma]

Bugno could train at 40 kph for 200 k all the time. I have my sources. He was a phenomenon of steadfastness. He perhaps lacked that killer instinct which guys like the Badger certainly had. EPO didn't make him a champion, even if he most certainly took it. He benefited along with all the others. If he didn't reach his "potential" it was probably because of his head. But for sure the guy was a stud.

 

[webvan]

Classy looking rider, but a weakling according to Fignon, but then he never had much good to say about anyone except his friend Pascal Jules who died when he was young and of course himself...

Hard to understand what happened to Bugno in 1993...even assuming others had caught up with "the programme" by then. Also he got popped for Caffeine didn'the, when was that? 1994...let's see, bingo, August 1994, he never recovered from that apparently, although I remember him winning a stage in the Vuelta, 1996 I think, the day, or thereabouts, the ONCE team (except for Zulle) all got a "stomach infection".

 

[Benotti69]

Had to look it up

86 Giro 41st @ 1hr
87 Giro DNF
88 Giro DNF Tour 62nd @1hr19'
89 Giro 23rd @ 32'23" Tour 11th @ 24'12"
90 Giro Winner Tour 7th @9'39"
91 Giro 4th Tour 2nd
92 Giro DNS Tour 2nd
93 Giro 18th Tour 20th

It seems strange that he wasn't better able to compete, bearing in mind an interview with Gianluca Stanga the DS of Gatorade. In it he was asked about the budget he had. his answer was that it had no cap!

his results suggest to me that he was one of the first to benefit and had epo before the majority, then when everyone had it he did not do so well compared to when the few were using it.

 

[Polish]

Why couldn't an EPO doped-up Bugno win the TdF?

Two Words - Big Mig.

And it was not just Bugno. Crazy Chiappucci with his incessant and suicidal attacks, EPO fueled attacks. Mr 60% Riis was defeated 5 times in a row by Big Mig. Zulle, Escartin, Rominger, Gotti. Doper, doper, doper, doper. Greg LeMond noted that "no amount of any drug" would have helped him defeat Big Mig.

So what does all this mean?

Well, if you are a Big Mig fanboy, you realize what an incredibly awesome rider he was. A patron's patron. A champion's champion.

And if you are a Big Mig hater, you will claim that Big Mig "reacted better" to EPO blah blah. That is why he beat all the dopers one two three four five times in a row.

But do you know what? There is NO EVIDENCE that Big Mig "reacted better" to the effects of EPO. For all we know, Big Mig did not benefit as much as the others did. No evidence either way.....

Kind of like Lance.

 

[dancing on pedals]

Classy looking rider, but a weakling according to Fignon, but then he never had much good to say about anyone except his friend Pascal Jules who died when he was young and of course himself...

Hard to understand what happened to Bugno in 1993...even assuming others had caught up with "the programme" by then. Also he got popped for Caffeine didn'the, when was that? 1994...let's see, bingo, August 1994, he never recovered from that apparently, although I remember him winning a stage in the Vuelta, 1996 I think, the day, or thereabouts, the ONCE team (except for Zulle) all got a "stomach infection".

his winning ride in the vuelta stage to the DYC distillery was one of the most classy pieces of riding i have ever seen and one of the most emotive.
he did not attack the peloton but simply upped the pace.
The reaction from the sparse crowd, which was transmitted on tv since the commentators were equally spell bound was amazing.
as for fignon's opinion, Indurain used to watch him closely especially when his calf veins started to twitch, then, he would up the pace.
thanks

 

[The Devil]

Operacion Puerto did not just appear out-of-the-blue. Recall, of course, the lengthy legal process in Italy from 2000 to 2004 with the trials of Professor Francesco Conconi and his former assistant Dr. Michele Ferrari. Files seized in the process revealed a list of 22 cyclists that had their blood data recorded during Conconi’s research, including many high-profile Italian riders from the 1990s such as Ivan Gotti, Claudio Chiappucci, Gianni Bugno (to name only three from the list) as well as other international riders such as Pavel Tonkov. (Bugno was caught up in another scandal in 1999 when a Mapei soigneur Tiziano Morassut, who was later charged, sent amphetamines to team member Bugno in Italy).

 

[Willy_Voet]

If you want to see what EPO can do for you, watch '94 Flanders.

edit: He also tested positive for 100 cups of coffee.

 

[ultimobici]

Why couldn't an EPO doped-up Bugno win the TdF?

Two Words - Big Mig.

And it was not just Bugno. Crazy Chiappucci with his incessant and suicidal attacks, EPO fueled attacks. Mr 60% Riis was defeated 5 times in a row by Big Mig. Zulle, Escartin, Rominger, Gotti. Doper, doper, doper, doper. Greg LeMond noted that "no amount of any drug" would have helped him defeat Big Mig.

So what does all this mean?

Well, if you are a Big Mig fanboy, you realize what an incredibly awesome rider he was. A patron's patron. A champion's champion.

And if you are a Big Mig hater, you will claim that Big Mig "reacted better" to EPO blah blah. That is why he beat all the dopers one two three four five times in a row.

But do you know what? There is NO EVIDENCE that Big Mig "reacted better" to the effects of EPO. For all we know, Big Mig did not benefit as much as the others did. No evidence either way.....

Kind of like Lance.

Just keep repeating it to yourself.

No one else actually listens to you. We hear you but nothing makes sense, mate!

 

[AngusW]

Had to look it up

86 Giro 41st @ 1hr
87 Giro DNF
88 Giro DNF Tour 62nd @1hr19'
89 Giro 23rd @ 32'23" Tour 11th @ 24'12"
90 Giro Winner Tour 7th @9'39"
91 Giro 4th Tour 2nd
92 Giro DNS Tour 3rd
93 Giro 18th Tour 20th

It seems strange that he wasn't better able to compete, bearing in mind an interview with Gianluca Stanga the DS of Gatorade. In it he was asked about the budget he had. his answer was that it had no cap!

Fixed it for you (Chiappucci was 2nd in 1992).

 

[ergmonkey]

This thread actually makes me sad.

First of all, don't we remember Bugno's back-to-back World Championships? I'd say those were pretty good years.

Second, and more importantly, there are a lot of dark rumors floating around that Bugno's current state of health is very poor and he attributes it to doping. As others have already noted, Bugno has been cited as bringing EPO to the peloton. If Jose Canseco had any real class, in other words, he could aspire to be the Gianni Bugno of baseball.

I hope the rumors are not true and that he's still healthy. Even then, I'd have a hard time thinking that he "struggled" in the '90's because others were more willing to dope.

 

[The Devil]

If you want to see what EPO can do for you, watch '94 Flanders.

edit: He also tested positive for 100 cups of coffee.

a coffee 'bitter for Bugno: doping
"Makes no sense, I already had 'the blue shirt. I can only think of a sabotage." "Makes no sense, I already had 'the blue shirt. I can only think of a sabotage." "Pedalai that day in the middle of the group." ds Stanga: "I think a stunt." an examination required by the extra Federciclismo. a career full of victories and existential crises. the weight to be champion one year between losses and leaks 'love: "I will not be' never a character." the illustrious precedents: Carnival, and other national Vaccaroni" Quote from Gianni Bugno

 

[hrotha]

This thread actually makes me sad.

First of all, don't we remember Bugno's back-to-back World Championships? I'd say those were pretty good years.

Second, and more importantly, there are a lot of dark rumors floating around that Bugno's current state of health is very poor and he attributes it to doping. As others have already noted, Bugno has been cited as bringing EPO to the peloton. If Jose Canseco had any real class, in other words, he could aspire to be the Gianni Bugno of baseball.

I hope the rumors are not true and that he's still healthy. Even then, I'd have a hard time thinking that he "struggled" in the '90's because others were more willing to dope.

I don't think that's what we're saying, at least it's not what I was implying. I didn't mean others doped more than him, I meant he gained an early advantage because he did EPO before most other guys, and when EPO became more widespread he lost that advantage. The implication of this would be that Bugno was not a legitimate GT contender.

Even Chiappucci, often touted as a nobody who became a star thanks to early use of EPO, remained competitive in GTs longer than Bugno.

 

[red_flanders]

I always assumed he was a very good one-day rider who benefitted from early EPO usage to become a GT contender and who faded once more people got on the good stuff, because assuming is fun.

Of course, I wasn't around during Bugno's early career so I don't know if he had the potential or not.

I was around. That pretty much covers it. I personally think he was one of the earliest significant riders on the hot sauce.

 

[ericfalcon]

1990 Milan-San Remo

Bugno won the fastest edition of this race solo. Nuff said.

 

[Oldman]

I was around. That pretty much covers it. I personally think he was one of the earliest significant riders on the hot sauce.

Legend has it that he raced his last season clean. When he won (once, I think that year) some close members of the peloton gave him applause because they knew he had the class but was part of the EPO generation, and that he had made the commitment to go out naturally.
I have no evidence this actually was the route he took but would like to believe he tried.

 

[frenchfry]

I always assumed he was a very good one-day rider who benefitted from early EPO usage to become a GT contender and who faded once more people got on the good stuff, because assuming is fun.

Of course, I wasn't around during Bugno's early career so I don't know if he had the potential or not.

Much like Jalabert.

 

[issoisso]

Of course, I wasn't around during Bugno's early career so I don't know if he had the potential or not.

Baby Giro, GP Liberazionae and a truckload of national championships on the road and track. He basically had great youth results in any race under the sun. He was pretty much the hottest commodity around when he turned pro.