What do we have on Unzue?

[No_Balls]

Right so, there might be some thread somewhere but i couldnt find it and as the title suggest:

What does the Clinic have on the longest serving director in professional cycling, Eusebio Unzue, from team Movistar? This guy is some sort of enigma. There sure as a hell aint a lot of *** that have hit his fan and yet this is the guy who:

-Guided Miguel Indurain and Banesto through the 90-ies with both records and reputation intact while practically everyone else didnt (sure the Conconi connection is there but as far as i know no one have pressed on the matter and Indurain is still widely regarded as a creditable champion).

-Survived the Operation Puertos, Bruyneels and Manolo Saiz of this world. Hell he has survived everybody.

-Came through and out the darkest lows of this sport clean as a whistle with teams of comparable strenghts as before. Does always seem to come through with big money team as well (Banks, insurance companies, phone corporations).

-Now he have this 37-year old convicted doper going full Horner and i dont hold my breath that he wont run away with it. Eusebio seems like the guy you wanna hang with if you're old school.

Who is he? Is he a dark lord? What does he have on UCI?

So many questions.

 

[Bronstein]

Right so, there might be some thread somewhere but i couldnt find it and as the title suggest:

What does the Clinic have on the longest serving director in professional cycling, Eusebio Unzue, from team Movistar? This guy is some sort of enigma. There sure as a hell aint a lot of **** that have hit his fan and yet this is the guy who:

-Guided Miguel Indurain and Banesto through the 90-ies with both records and reputation intact while practically everyone else didnt (sure the Conconi connection is there but as far as i know no one have pressed on the matter and Indurain is still widely regarded as a creditable champion).

-Survived the Operation Puertos, Bruyneels and Manolo Saiz of this world. Hell he has survived everybody.

-Came through and out the darkest lows of this sport clean as a whistle with teams of comparable strenghts as before. Does always seem to come through with big money team as well (Banks, insurance companies, phone corporations).

-Now he have this 37-year old convicted doper going full Horner and i dont hold my breath that he wont run away with it. Eusebio seems like the guy you wanna hang with if you're old school.

Who is he? Is he a dark lord? What does he have on UCI?

So many questions.

 

[fmk_RoI]

Indurain is still widely regarded as a creditable champion

LOL!

 

[No_Balls]

With widely regarded i mean in the sense that he has kept his victories and has not that tarnished reputation among the crowd who is not too involved in cycling. Or not that tarnished in comparison to many other riders that was active in the 90'ies. Which is quite a feat given what we know of that century.

Dont take one quote out of context please. Im sure you know what i mean.

 

[hrotha]

One key element missing from the OP is Thomas Davy's testimony about teamwide doping at Banesto in 1995-1996.

 

[Fernandez]

With widely regarded i mean in the sense that he has kept his victories and has not that tarnished reputation among the crowd who is not too involved in cycling. Or not that tarnished in comparison to many other riders that was active in the 90'ies. Which is quite a feat given what we know of that century.

Dont take one quote out of context please. Im sure you know what i mean.

Who´s gonna accuse him if everybody were in the game at that time? He was also such a nice man that nobody wants to say nothing against him. And if you ask me, he was the best anyway, he had won everything if everybody had been clean; hes a freak of nature.

 

[fmk_RoI]

With widely regarded i mean in the sense that he has kept his victories and has not that tarnished reputation among the crowd who is not too involved in cycling. Or not that tarnished in comparison to many other riders that was active in the 90'ies. Which is quite a feat given what we know of that century.

Don't take one quote out of context please. Im sure you know what i mean.

No one took it out of context. But you do seem to be choosing to ignore a wealth of evidence of doping at Unzué's teams. And highlighting that one quote makes clear just how blinkered you're being.

 

[No_Balls]

With widely regarded i mean in the sense that he has kept his victories and has not that tarnished reputation among the crowd who is not too involved in cycling. Or not that tarnished in comparison to many other riders that was active in the 90'ies. Which is quite a feat given what we know of that century.

Don't take one quote out of context please. Im sure you know what i mean.

No one took it out of context. But you do seem to be choosing to ignore a wealth of evidence of doping at Unzué's teams. And highlighting that one quote makes clear just how blinkered you're being.

What the *** are you smoking? The point with the thread is not to ignore the evidence that obviously is there (that would indeed be strange) but to figure out what his connections are. Hrotha mentions Davys statement and that is good and all but it didnt lead anywhere. Davy got the silent treatment and was shut out in the cold. That is also the only real testimony against the Unzue-regime i've read about and this is over 30 years in the biz which is not a lot if you ask me.

The question isnt if there is heavily doping aboard - the question is how he have ran away with it. Whats his secret.

What do have we more? Do you have something?

 

[fmk_RoI]

The question isnt if there is heavily doping aboard - the question is how he have ran away with it. Whats his secret.

What do have we more? Do you have something?

What's any DS's secret? Come on, be real here: how many team bosses - let's limit ourselves to Gen-EPO onwards - have ever been "proved" to have been involved in doping? Bruyneel, yes. Who else? Not many, is it? Most are as "clean" as Unzué.

What "evidence" do you actually want, what "evidence" are you seeking, what counts as "evidence" for you?

 

[Benotti69]

The question isnt if there is heavily doping aboard - the question is how he have ran away with it. Whats his secret.

What do have we more? Do you have something?

What's any DS's secret? Come on, be real here: how many team bosses - let's limit ourselves to Gen-EPO onwards - have ever been "proved" to have been involved in doping? Bruyneel, yes. Who else? Not many, is it? Most are as "clean" as Unzué.

What "evidence" do you actually want, what "evidence" are you seeking, what counts as "evidence" for you?

Manolo Saiz

Mauro Gianetti, while never proved, became an untouchable.

Bruno Roussel

Hendrik Redant

Hans-Michael Holczer

 

[Escarabajo]

The OP has a point. The question is how he has done it without being hurt or damaged.

 

[Benotti69]

Re:

The OP has a point. The question is how he has done it without being hurt or damaged.

Cosying up to UCI Presidents no doubt with brown envelopes containing notes saying sorry


It takes a lot to get blacklisted in cycling if you are a team owner, directeur sportif.

Heck Vino runs a team. JV runs a team. Madiot runs a team. Bernadeau runs a team. Dopers run teams.

That is cycling. Doping pays and it can pay big time. Would not surprise me if Bruyneel comes back with a team.

 

[BYOP88]

Re: Re:

The OP has a point. The question is how he has done it without being hurt or damaged.

Cosying up to UCI Presidents no doubt with brown envelopes containing notes saying sorry


It takes a lot to get blacklisted in cycling if you are a team owner, directeur sportif.

Heck Vino runs a team. JV runs a team. Madiot runs a team. Bernadeau runs a team. Dopers run teams.

That is cycling. Doping pays and it can pay big time. Would not surprise me if Bruyneel comes back with a team.

These teams have had riders busted for doping, yet "the show" still goes on.

 

[Gung Ho Gun]

I don't think staying in cycling takes that much black magic
Staying "unblemished" enough to keep attracting sponsors is the trick. I'd say Lefevre and Saronni have been similarly successful

 

[GraftPunk]

Probably a combination of the above --- he's turned Teflon due to: cozy entrenchment over the decades, an ability to bring in high profile sponsorship money, hires popular riders, and engages in probable bribery.

Oh, and he may know where a few bodies are buried. YMMV

 

[hrotha]

I don't understand the hostility towards No_Balls for putting into thread form what is a commonly held belief about the Friars: that they're better than most at avoiding scandals and moving behind the scenes. At no point did No_Balls suggest anything beyond that.

 

[Netserk]

I can't think of any other team that has had at least a decade in the very top with less dirt on them.

 

[DFA123]

I think it helps as well that he's operating a Spanish team with largely spanish riders. Doping doesn't carry the same taboo that it does in more straight laced countries like Northern Europe or the USA. So riders who get caught (usually when they venture outside Spain) tend to quietly serve their ban and then come back into the fold. It's all part of the game. Also with the state having very little interest in pursuing dopers and with Unzue's contacts; it's unlikely he;ll get publically shamed.

There are some obvious exceptions like Manzano, but these are few and far between;and I think Unzue is generally on very good terms with his riders and forms a good connection with them; so there's little motivation to tell-all. There's certainly little appetite among the general public though for a Rasmussen, Landis or Bassons tell-all type character to bring down the whole team and staff. It's difficult to see a Spanish tell-all figure getting a big book contract or becoming a prominent media figure - far better to keep their head down and join the gravy train again two years later. Also see how protracted and drawn out the cases with Fuentes and del Moral became; with even state institutions playing a keen role in playing down the whole procedure.

 

[Benotti69]

Re:

I think it helps as well that he's operating a Spanish team with largely spanish riders. Doping doesn't carry the same taboo that it does in more straight laced countries like Northern Europe or the USA. So riders who get caught (usually when they venture outside Spain) tend to quietly serve their ban and then come back into the fold. It's all part of the game. Also with the state having very little interest in pursuing dopers and with Unzue's contacts; it's unlikely he;ll get publically shamed.

There are some obvious exceptions like Manzano, but these are few and far between;and I think Unzue is generally on very good terms with his riders and forms a good connection with them; so there's little motivation to tell-all. There's certainly little appetite among the general public though for a Rasmussen, Landis or Bassons tell-all type character to bring down the whole team and staff. It's difficult to see a Spanish tell-all figure getting a big book contract or becoming a prominent media figure - far better to keep their head down and join the gravy train again two years later. Also see how protracted and drawn out the cases with Fuentes and del Moral became; with even state institutions playing a keen role in playing down the whole procedure.

Whistleblowers dont do 'tell alls' for money. Show me a rich whistleblower!!!

 

[DFA123]

Re: Re:

I think it helps as well that he's operating a Spanish team with largely spanish riders. Doping doesn't carry the same taboo that it does in more straight laced countries like Northern Europe or the USA. So riders who get caught (usually when they venture outside Spain) tend to quietly serve their ban and then come back into the fold. It's all part of the game. Also with the state having very little interest in pursuing dopers and with Unzue's contacts; it's unlikely he;ll get publically shamed.

There are some obvious exceptions like Manzano, but these are few and far between;and I think Unzue is generally on very good terms with his riders and forms a good connection with them; so there's little motivation to tell-all. There's certainly little appetite among the general public though for a Rasmussen, Landis or Bassons tell-all type character to bring down the whole team and staff. It's difficult to see a Spanish tell-all figure getting a big book contract or becoming a prominent media figure - far better to keep their head down and join the gravy train again two years later. Also see how protracted and drawn out the cases with Fuentes and del Moral became; with even state institutions playing a keen role in playing down the whole procedure.

Whistleblowers dont do 'tell alls' for money. Show me a rich whistleblower!!!

It's not just about making money, it's as much about having nothing to lose. I think a rider like Landis has probably made more from whistleblowing than if he'd have kept quiet and just accepted that he was finished in cycling. Spanish dopers tend to get welcomed back into the sport more easily post-ban than in Anglo countries - where the media and sport likes to keep up the charade that only a handful of bad guys are doping. So the Spanish dopers are rarely in a position where they have nothing to lose by telling-all. And, even if they did tell-all, the publicity and income from doing so would be almost non-existant in their home country.

 

[hrotha]

Regardless of the whistleblower's motivation, the lack of big book contracts suggests there's not much of a market for them, which is significant in its own way.

 

[yaco]

Re: Re:

I think it helps as well that he's operating a Spanish team with largely spanish riders. Doping doesn't carry the same taboo that it does in more straight laced countries like Northern Europe or the USA. So riders who get caught (usually when they venture outside Spain) tend to quietly serve their ban and then come back into the fold. It's all part of the game. Also with the state having very little interest in pursuing dopers and with Unzue's contacts; it's unlikely he;ll get publically shamed.

There are some obvious exceptions like Manzano, but these are few and far between;and I think Unzue is generally on very good terms with his riders and forms a good connection with them; so there's little motivation to tell-all. There's certainly little appetite among the general public though for a Rasmussen, Landis or Bassons tell-all type character to bring down the whole team and staff. It's difficult to see a Spanish tell-all figure getting a big book contract or becoming a prominent media figure - far better to keep their head down and join the gravy train again two years later. Also see how protracted and drawn out the cases with Fuentes and del Moral became; with even state institutions playing a keen role in playing down the whole procedure.

Whistleblowers dont do 'tell alls' for money. Show me a rich whistleblower!!!

Landis has done OK - DFA is correct when you look at culture - Countries like Spain are far less uptight about doping than other countries.

 

[Benotti69]

Re: Re:

I think it helps as well that he's operating a Spanish team with largely spanish riders. Doping doesn't carry the same taboo that it does in more straight laced countries like Northern Europe or the USA. So riders who get caught (usually when they venture outside Spain) tend to quietly serve their ban and then come back into the fold. It's all part of the game. Also with the state having very little interest in pursuing dopers and with Unzue's contacts; it's unlikely he;ll get publically shamed.

There are some obvious exceptions like Manzano, but these are few and far between;and I think Unzue is generally on very good terms with his riders and forms a good connection with them; so there's little motivation to tell-all. There's certainly little appetite among the general public though for a Rasmussen, Landis or Bassons tell-all type character to bring down the whole team and staff. It's difficult to see a Spanish tell-all figure getting a big book contract or becoming a prominent media figure - far better to keep their head down and join the gravy train again two years later. Also see how protracted and drawn out the cases with Fuentes and del Moral became; with even state institutions playing a keen role in playing down the whole procedure.

Whistleblowers dont do 'tell alls' for money. Show me a rich whistleblower!!!

Landis has done OK - DFA is correct when you look at culture - Countries like Spain are far less uptight about doping than other countries.

How has Landis done ok?

He is a small businessman at present with probably a lot of debt. I dont see him overflowing with riches. With Trump running the show who knows how the QuiTam case will end.

Most countries turn a blind eye to their own athletes doping. Show me a country that abhors their athletes winning illegally?

 

[DFA123]

Re: Re:

I think it helps as well that he's operating a Spanish team with largely spanish riders. Doping doesn't carry the same taboo that it does in more straight laced countries like Northern Europe or the USA. So riders who get caught (usually when they venture outside Spain) tend to quietly serve their ban and then come back into the fold. It's all part of the game. Also with the state having very little interest in pursuing dopers and with Unzue's contacts; it's unlikely he;ll get publically shamed.

There are some obvious exceptions like Manzano, but these are few and far between;and I think Unzue is generally on very good terms with his riders and forms a good connection with them; so there's little motivation to tell-all. There's certainly little appetite among the general public though for a Rasmussen, Landis or Bassons tell-all type character to bring down the whole team and staff. It's difficult to see a Spanish tell-all figure getting a big book contract or becoming a prominent media figure - far better to keep their head down and join the gravy train again two years later. Also see how protracted and drawn out the cases with Fuentes and del Moral became; with even state institutions playing a keen role in playing down the whole procedure.

Whistleblowers dont do 'tell alls' for money. Show me a rich whistleblower!!!

Landis has done OK - DFA is correct when you look at culture - Countries like Spain are far less uptight about doping than other countries.

How has Landis done ok?

He is a small businessman at present with probably a lot debt. I dont see him overflowing with riches. With Trump running the show who knows how the QuiTam case will end.

Most countries turn a blind eye to their own athletes doping. Show me a country that abhors their athletes winning illegally?

Sure, we know from the past that a lot of countries are luke warm at best about catching dopers. But I think its far less likely to happen to Unzue, what is happening to Brailsford now for example. Where large elements of the media, parliamentary committees and some fans have spun 180 degrees from complete support and almost worship to some serious questioning. I don't think that would happen to anywhere near the same extent in Spain; because there isn't the public appetite for a juicy doping scandal. Which also means Spanish riders are less likely to speak out.

 

[Benotti69]

Re: Re:

I think it helps as well that he's operating a Spanish team with largely spanish riders. Doping doesn't carry the same taboo that it does in more straight laced countries like Northern Europe or the USA. So riders who get caught (usually when they venture outside Spain) tend to quietly serve their ban and then come back into the fold. It's all part of the game. Also with the state having very little interest in pursuing dopers and with Unzue's contacts; it's unlikely he;ll get publically shamed.

There are some obvious exceptions like Manzano, but these are few and far between;and I think Unzue is generally on very good terms with his riders and forms a good connection with them; so there's little motivation to tell-all. There's certainly little appetite among the general public though for a Rasmussen, Landis or Bassons tell-all type character to bring down the whole team and staff. It's difficult to see a Spanish tell-all figure getting a big book contract or becoming a prominent media figure - far better to keep their head down and join the gravy train again two years later. Also see how protracted and drawn out the cases with Fuentes and del Moral became; with even state institutions playing a keen role in playing down the whole procedure.

Whistleblowers dont do 'tell alls' for money. Show me a rich whistleblower!!!

Landis has done OK - DFA is correct when you look at culture - Countries like Spain are far less uptight about doping than other countries.

How has Landis done ok?

He is a small businessman at present with probably a lot debt. I dont see him overflowing with riches. With Trump running the show who knows how the QuiTam case will end.

Most countries turn a blind eye to their own athletes doping. Show me a country that abhors their athletes winning illegally?

Sure, we know from the past that a lot of countries are luke warm at best about catching dopers. But I think its far less likely to happen to Unzue, what is happening to Brailsford now for example. Where large elements of the media, parliamentary committees and some fans have spun 180 degrees from complete support and almost worship to some serious questioning. I don't think that would happen to anywhere near the same extent in Spain; because there isn't the public appetite for a juicy doping scandal. Which also means Spanish riders are less likely to speak out.

I think Brailsford's pending comeuppance is due to his sponsors being a major competitor in the media. Namely DailyMail. Walsh is butthurt about being lied too. His love of Froome is off the charts.

Even then not many journalists dug too deep. Where is the digging on the Linda McCartney team doping.

UKAD are as bad as any anti-doping agency.

Unzue is not going to get in trouble with Spanish media. Maybe he gives better goodie bags than Brailsford, i.e. a bike rather than some rapha caps and bidons........