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BikeCentric said:First off a Classics rider usually has a bigger or at least more muscular frame than your average Pro which facilitates a greater sustained power output on flat and rolling terrain. Second I'm going to guess: a very good 5 minute power output i.e. VO2 max power and the ability to repeat said 5 minute power many times. This would be for huge efforts across cobbled sections in Paris Roubaix and up the short steep hills of Flanders.
Next we are seeing an emerging subspecies of the Ardennes Classics specialist. This is simply a rider whose speciality is short hills, i.e. very high anaerobic capacity / 1 minute power output. Examples Cunego, Valverde, F Schleck.
Long story short: power/weight ratio is always important in all types of bike racing but the Classics rider is skewed far more toward the numerator in the equation of high power output because there are no mountains to climb over in the Classics.
Breschel is doing really well at the moment and he's not very big. Wikipedia says 68 kg, but I don't know the source for that. Used to say 61, so I'm not sure how accurate it is. I think that he is relatively small though.Ibanez said:For me the common attribute amongst the best northern classics riders is having gigantic balls.
Seriously, Canc is a Time Triallist, yet Boonen is a sprinter. Flecha can't do either. Pozzato has a decent sprint but not world beating. Yet they all love and do well in March.
To be a top classics rider, you need to REALLY love the classics, be over 70kg or there abouts to absorb the punishment and put out the power on the flat, and just be hard as nails.
Ibanez said:For me the common attribute amongst the best northern classics riders is having gigantic balls.
Seriously, Canc is a Time Triallist, yet Boonen is a sprinter. Flecha can't do either. Pozzato has a decent sprint but not world beating. Yet they all love and do well in March.
To be a top classics rider, you need to REALLY love the classics, be over 70kg or there abouts to absorb the punishment and put out the power on the flat, and just be hard as nails.
I wonder if guys like Hoste and Flecha have exceptional power numbers compared to the rest of the peloton...I would think not. Just experience in those kind of races. Cancellara was a bad example, that guy is obviously as good as it gets.
rghysens said:In my opinion you have to do only two things to be a real great classics rider:
1) win at least 3 different classics
2) win at least 2 of them several times
So Boonen, Cancellara and Freire aren't real grat classic riders (yet)
(classics are: San remo, Flanders, Roubaix, Zurich, Tours and Lombardy, still in doubt about Gold Race)
rghysens said:(classics are: San remo, Flanders, Roubaix, Zurich, Tours and Lombardy, still in doubt about Gold Race)
rghysens said:In my opinion you have to do only two things to be a real great classics rider:
1) win at least 3 different classics
2) win at least 2 of them several times
So Boonen, Cancellara and Freire aren't real grat classic riders (yet)
(classics are: San remo, Flanders, Roubaix, Zurich, Tours and Lombardy, still in doubt about Gold Race)
TRDean said:I may disagree a little on Boonen...
rghysens said:In my opinion you have to do only two things to be a real great classics rider:
1) win at least 3 different classics
2) win at least 2 of them several times
So Boonen, Cancellara and Freire aren't real grat classic riders (yet)
(classics are: San remo, Flanders, Roubaix, Zurich, Tours and Lombardy, still in doubt about Gold Race)
flicker said:Cunego and F. Schleck ain't jack without the dope and they have been warned. Valverde may have the pure talent without the dope. We will have to see.
I must disagree on your definition of "Classics."rghysens said:In my opinion you have to do only two things to be a real great classics rider:
1) win at least 3 different classics
2) win at least 2 of them several times
So Boonen, Cancellara and Freire aren't real grat classic riders (yet)
(classics are: San remo, Flanders, Roubaix, Zurich, Tours and Lombardy, still in doubt about Gold Race)
JAB1973 said:Boonen will be considered one of the great cobbled classics riders. 3 P-R and 2 Tours of Flanders must put him up there with the best. Even Roger DeVlamink (sp?) only won Flanders one time (and it was a bit of a hollow win at that). I doubt anyone would say old Roger was not a great.
JAB1973 said:Even Roger DeVlamink (sp?) only won Flanders one time (and it was a bit of a hollow win at that). I doubt anyone would say old Roger was not a great.
JAB1973 said:Another thing to be said for Boonen in the cobbled classics...he has the same number of wins in P-R and TOF as Eddy Merckx.
rghysens said:In my opinion you have to do only two things to be a real great classics rider:
1) win at least 3 different classics
2) win at least 2 of them several times
So Boonen, Cancellara and Freire aren't real grat classic riders (yet)
(classics are: San remo, Flanders, Roubaix, Zurich, Tours and Lombardy, still in doubt about Gold Race)
Ibanez said:Couldn't disagree more.
1. Cycling is about far more then wins, otherwise nobody would remember Poulidor. Pozzato hasn't won an awful lot since MSR, but nobody can deny he is a great classics rider. Same argument with Hincapie. E3 was Cancellara's first win in Belgium, but he had the reputation as a top class rider long before. Winning is important, but there are superb riders around who haven't managed to pull off that many wins.
By your logic, Zabel counts as a great, but somehow Boonen does not. Who is more revered amongst fans as a classics rider? Easy question, it ain't Zabel. Super as he is.
2. Your list is a bit odd, Zurich but no Fleche? Only one of those races still existsAnd Amstel is at least as prestigious as Zurich. Plus Paris Tours is cool and all, but if that makes your list Gent Wevelgem has to as well.
ak-zaaf said:But he also won LBL, FW, Metzgete, Lombardy twice and Sanremo 3 times.
De Vlaeminck was one of the greatest classic riders of all time. Plus his career saw him battling with both Merckx and Hinault, arguably the greatest riders ever.
Boonen is awesome but not diverse enough. Winning Flanders and LBL in one career doesnt happen anymore anyway.
Boonen will certainly be remembered as a great specialist.