What was Floyd thinking?

[SlantParallelogram]

Full disclosure here. I have always liked Floyd Landis, and that was before he ever wore a Phonak jersey.

So what was Floyd thinking? If he knew he was guilty then why didn't he simply take his suspension, and then he could have returned to the top level of racing in Europe again. Instead he lost everything. He lost his money, his hot wife, his career, everything.

I feel so bad for him. Who in the world was giving him such bad advice? I can't believe he really thought he would win his court case. Nobody wins against the anti-doping vampires.

I think Floyd racing in a t-shirt = awesome. However, I think him in a pro tour jersey again would have been more awesome.

I suppose I don't understand why he used that testosterone patch in the middle of the race. Sure I understand that he had lost a ton of time the day before, and he never thought that even with the patch he would have been able to recover and win the next day. So he never thought he would have been tested at the end of the day.

However, shouldn't his team manager have reminded him that he shouldn't have finished too highly that day because he would have been tested at the end of the day? It doesn't make any sense to me.

The worst thing about it, is that it seems like even if Floyd had not used the patch, he probably still would have been able to recover time that day.

So he essentially lost his whole career, all his money, his wife, and everything he ever worked for because he decided to use a testosterone patch on one single day. That isn't right in my opinion.

 

[SlantParallelogram]

As far as all the haters who want their donations to Floyd returned...

Get over it already! What you all are probably out 100 bucks AT MOST, so forget about it. It isn't a lot of money.

 

[THISISIT]

So what was Floyd thinking? If he knew he was guilty then why didn't he simply take his suspension, and then he could have returned to the top level of racing in Europe again. Instead he lost everything. He lost his money, his hot wife, his career, everything.

In this world, there are people that others refer to as "f**k-ups". Floyd is one of those, despite the fact that he can ride a bike fast. Even the Amish have them, and Floyd is just a Mennonite.

That is not necessarily a bad thing, afterall he's most likely going to be the reason all of us outsiders get a more intimate look at how things were on the inside.

 

[Benotti69]

In this world, there are people that others refer to as "f**k-ups". Floyd is one of those...

i don't see Floyd a f**k-up!. Unlucky, he played the game and lost, bad luck, bad DS, whatever...lots never got caught. you only need to be unlucky once (maybe) to get caught.

How many get away with it consistently? Lots.

Valeverde got unlucky that someone in spain past on his blood sample to Coni to match it to Op Puerto.....unlucky? yep no one esle got caught like Valverde and boy is he pi$$ed that he was the only one to get caught, Basso said he was thinking of it, Schleck said he paid but never received etc...so its luck and no FL aint a F-UP!

If he blows a massive hole in pro-cycling and sinks LA/JB at the same time, well that's some shot for a so called F-UP!

He tried to 'rescue' his TdF because he knew that was his only chance to win it and he was not going to let it go without trying his 'damndest' to keep it, especially after see what LA did and got away with to win 7 TdFs, he only wanted 1 ferchrissakes

 

[Comeback 2011]

He's obviously not a stupid person so it's hard to know what goes on in his head. I think he's just someone that doesn't think deeply about decisions, and then just runs with those decisions. Sort of like George Bush.

Why in the world now would he go to the police about doping in cycling, but at the same time justify the doping and defend lance Armstrong against claims he is a fraud? It doesn't make sense to me.

It seems like on a whim he decided to get revenge over the TOC and now is stuck with a long term decision that he didn't want to make.

 

[Realist]

It seems like on a whim he decided to get revenge over the TOC and now is stuck with a long term decision that he didn't want to make.

Really? He seems to me to look more comfortable and less haunted than I've seen him look since he tested positive. We have the opposite read on this. The TOC revenge thing doesn't seem to stack up if you read the email correspondence.

 

[editedbymod]

He's obviously not a stupid person so it's hard to know what goes on in his head. I think he's just someone that doesn't think deeply about decisions, and then just runs with those decisions. Sort of like George Bush.

Why in the world now would he go to the police about doping in cycling, but at the same time justify the doping and defend lance Armstrong against claims he is a fraud? It doesn't make sense to me.

It seems like on a whim he decided to get revenge over the TOC and now is stuck with a long term decision that he didn't want to make.

4 years he's had to think about it. He's on the right path. This really has very little to do with cycling and a lot more to do with life and personal wellbeing. Floyd was close to death. Very close. Where he is now is a much better place. We'll all look back in 5 years time and thank god he stood up for himself.

After losing his wife, his house, his job and his life believe me he's had more than enough time to think about what he's doing.

Hopefully the strength he's showing now will give courage to those who've not spoken. Floyd is showing the way. Tough guy.

 

[mastersracer]

I don't think Landis has ever admitted to that specific testosterone charge; it's conceivable to me, having been at much of the Pepperdine hearings, that it was a false positive...even if he was doing lots of other stuff.

 

[Comeback 2011]

Really? He seems to me to look more comfortable and less haunted than I've seen him look since he tested positive. We have the opposite read on this. The TOC revenge thing doesn't seem to stack up if you read the email correspondence.

No the email correspondence added to this. It's also what the WSJ reported. They said not being allowed into the ToC was "the final straw".

I think he looked much more comfortable and at ease when doing the 'never doped' interviews. Now he's in the tricky business of trying to justify doping whilst at the same time condemning it, and limit the damage of what his bombshells will do for many people's reputations, when he knows that is unwarranted. He said in the previous interview that more people would admit to doping if they weren't labelled doper forever - like that is not going to happen to all those guys, huh?

It's all a muddle.

 

[scribe]

To the original poster: I am gonna need to see these pictures of his hot wife to decide for myself.

 

[tockit]

To the original poster: I am gonna need to see these pictures of his hot wife to decide for myself.

 

[scribe]

*** edtied by mod ***

 

[the vagabond]

I don't think Landis has ever admitted to that specific testosterone charge; it's conceivable to me, having been at much of the Pepperdine hearings, that it was a false positive...even if he was doing lots of other stuff.

It most definitely was not a false positive. I knew that the next day when he did an interview with Larry King. He gave the telltale signs of lying - swallowing, nervous ticks, etc.

And I seriously doubt it was just a "patch." More than likely, it was "How bad do you want to win the Tour, Floyd?" "Really, bad." "Bend over and drop your trousers, and don't ask questions. This is going to hurt a little. Now go drink some whiskey and get some sleep."

 

[Squares]

I suppose I don't understand why he used that testosterone patch in the middle of the race.

He says he didn't use Testosterone on that day or any day close. He swears that is the truth even in his recent confessions.

 

[Colm.Murphy]

He says he didn't use Testosterone on that day or any day close. He swears that is the truth even in his recent confessions.

Well, perhaps it is a fact, eh?

You can dangle your red herrings here and there to redirect issues back on Landis. No matter, it does not alter the situation that Lance and his crew will be facing here in the near future.

Given all that has transpired, from 2006 till now, does it even really matter that Landis adheres to the position that he did not knowingly use Test at the 2006 Tour? Seems to me like a minor footnote against the larger picture of the problem.

 

[SlantParallelogram]

He says he didn't use Testosterone on that day or any day close. He swears that is the truth even in his recent confessions.

That confuses me even more. Well I suppose I understand why he might continue to be dishonest about that. He seems to be saying that yes he used performance enhancing drugs, but so did everybody else. The only difference was he got caught. Except if he maintains the story that it was a false positive, then he can say the race and the lab cheated him out of the victory.

Who knows, he might be telling the truth. Then again, he might not. I have no idea. I still feel bad for him either way.

 

[sars1981]

I wondered this for a long time and even made a thread on it before he confessed.
http://forum.cyclingnews.com/showthread.php?t=5442

What seemed to emerge is the reason Floyd might have been so indignant is that he legitimately did, in some weird sense, think he was innocent.

I think cyclists have a distorted view of what "cheating" is; They view the controls as the authority, not the truth. So when Floyd got caught for testosterone even though he probably hadnt used it for weeks he instinctively thought he'd been wronged.

My own wild speculation is that testosterone was in his banked blood that he used during the tour.

 

[SlantParallelogram]

What seemed to emerge is the reason Floyd might have been so indignant is that he legitimately did, in some weird sense, think he was innocent.

I think cyclists have a distorted view of what "cheating" is; They view the controls as the authority, not the truth. So when Floyd got caught for testosterone even though he probably hadnt used it for weeks he instinctively thought he'd been wronged.

My own wild speculation is that testosterone was in his banked blood that he used during the tour.

Now that is an interesting idea! The thing about the testosterone in his banked blood that he used.

I basically agree with Floyd about the cheating thing. If everybody else is doing the same thing, then how can it be called cheating? They would have to disqualify everybody in the race.

 

[SpartacusRox]

i don't see Floyd a f**k-up!. Unlucky, he played the game and lost, bad luck, bad DS, whatever...lots never got caught. you only need to be unlucky once (maybe) to get caught.

How many get away with it consistently? Lots.

Valeverde got unlucky that someone in spain past on his blood sample to Coni to match it to Op Puerto.....unlucky? yep no one esle got caught like Valverde and boy is he pi$$ed that he was the only one to get caught, Basso said he was thinking of it, Schleck said he paid but never received etc...so its luck and no FL aint a F-UP!

If he blows a massive hole in pro-cycling and sinks LA/JB at the same time, well that's some shot for a so called F-UP!

He tried to 'rescue' his TdF because he knew that was his only chance to win it and he was not going to let it go without trying his 'damndest' to keep it, especially after see what LA did and got away with to win 7 TdFs, he only wanted 1 ferchrissakes

I am assuming you are writing this tongue in cheek, right?? If not then I am seriously concerned.

 

[SpartacusRox]

Well, perhaps it is a fact, eh?

You can dangle your red herrings here and there to redirect issues back on Landis. No matter, it does not alter the situation that Lance and his crew will be facing here in the near future.

Given all that has transpired, from 2006 till now, does it even really matter that Landis adheres to the position that he did not knowingly use Test at the 2006 Tour? Seems to me like a minor footnote against the larger picture of the problem.

Yeah it would to you. so he lies about everything else but on this 'little' point..."hey I'm innocent". And you are like, 'ah well who cares about that'. Selective morality maybe Colm??

 

[Realist]

Yeah it would to you. so he lies about everything else but on this 'little' point..."hey I'm innocent". And you are like, 'ah well who cares about that'. Selective morality maybe Colm??

To those of us who want to see our sport cleaned up it isn't of primary importance what the precise motivations, foibles and failings of the individual players are. The evidence that the system is broken is overwhelming and we want to see change. The players are morally complex, and it is possible to feel sympathy for them without wholeheartedly endorsing their actions. The people involved are just people... each one flawed and each one complicated. Has Landis lied? Might he be lying about using test? Yes to both. Does this mean LA and JB and HV and the rest of them shouldn't be held to account? Oh hell no.

I don't want to speak for anybody, but Colm didn't suggest that it was moral if Landis lied. He said focusing on that is a red herring, a minor footnote in a larger problem. Well put Colm.

Once again Spartacus confabulates.

 

[hrotha]

Yeah it would to you. so he lies about everything else but on this 'little' point..."hey I'm innocent". And you are like, 'ah well who cares about that'. Selective morality maybe Colm??

Landis didn't say "hey I'm innocent", he said "I used all kinds of stuff during that Tour, just not testosterone, but I don't want to bother arguing that because it'd be silly. Also I did use testosterone during my career". Big difference if you ask me.

And it's irrelevant because this isn't about Landis anymore. At any rate, he already paid for his offense as far as the sport is concerned.

 

[SpartacusRox]

To those of us who want to see our sport cleaned up it isn't of primary importance what the precise motivations, foibles and failings of the individual players are. The evidence that the system is broken is overwhelming and we want to see change. The players are morally complex, and it is possible to feel sympathy for them without wholeheartedly endorsing their actions. The people involved are just people... each one flawed and each one complicated. Has Landis lied? Might he be lying about using test? Yes to both. Does this mean LA and JB and HV and the rest of them shouldn't be held to account? Oh hell no.

I don't want to speak for anybody, but Colm didn't suggest that it was moral if Landis lied. He said focusing on that is a red herring, a minor footnote in a larger problem. Well put Colm.

Once again Spartacus confabulates.

What can I say...I'm a realist, Realist

 

[M Sport]

As far as all the haters who want their donations to Floyd returned...

Get over it already! What you all are probably out 100 bucks AT MOST, so forget about it. It isn't a lot of money.

And I shall add. Consider it a small financial penalty for your stupidity in actually believing he was innocent.

For the record I have no objection to Floyd fighting the testers, the system makes riders do that. But shame on anyone thinking he was clean.

 

[shawnrohrbach]

Really? He seems to me to look more comfortable and less haunted than I've seen him look since he tested positive. We have the opposite read on this. The TOC revenge thing doesn't seem to stack up if you read the email correspondence.

I agree. Moving into the truth, despite the number of lies he may have told in the past, may not endear him to many, but it will heal him and in the end that is all that matters. I liked his comment on the ABC Nightline segment where he asked the reporter if he should just maintain the lie instead of finally telling the truth. I am still waiting to see if Landis has recently told the truth and if he has, then I will enjoy watching the healing process he has begun for himself. Anyone who wallows as deeply in deception and lies as he did has a long healing process, but heal he will as long as he lives by the truth.