When will JV step up?

[Damiano Machiavelli]

I am tired of this guy giving sanctimonious lectures about the good of the sport while his supporters assure us that he is working behind the scenes to make a better world. When will he get the stones to come forward and make a difference? It seems that he would rather lay low and keep quiet while watching Armstrong's goons smear his old teammates.

 

[thehog]

Soon I'm told. A statement of sorts. Maybe a way of jabbing the UCI to death ready for Breakaway 1.0.

 

[sniper]

Soon I'm told. A statement of sorts. Maybe a way of jabbing the UCI to death ready for Breakaway 1.0.

If he has only a minimum of principles left, he should break ties with both Bruyneel and the UCI.

 

[ElChingon]

He'll have to breakaway from his own past as well.

The new league so far seems a lot like the old league to me, just different names on the name plates.

 

[TERMINATOR]

I am tired of this guy giving sanctimonious lectures about the good of the sport while his supporters assure us that he is working behind the scenes to make a better world. When will he get the stones to come forward and make a difference? It seems that he would rather lay low and keep quiet while watching Armstrong's goons smear his old teammates.

What the heck are you talking about? He already is "making a difference." JV is doing everything he can to make the sport better. His team is about as non-doping as you're going to find, especially at the Pro Tour level.

He's running the AIGCP and locking horns with the UCI over the race radio ban and the power structure of the sport to make it better for teams.

He's encouraged his riders to cooperate with the feds.

What else do you want him to do? Not sure what "come forward" means either. Maybe JV doesn't have any direct personal knowledge of LA doping - maybe that's why he's not "coming forward." As for allowing "Armstrong's goons to smear his former teammates" - again, not sure what you want JV to do about that since it involves specific incidents he wasn't privy to. Why would JV get involved in any of that?

How do you know JV hasn't already testified before the grand jury? Answer: you don't.

My guess is he's preparing his team for the Tour de France and not taking your advice.

 

[Ingenerius]

Well, when asked something like "What are you gonna do now?" by @nyvelocity after leaks of TH and GH JV answered:

"@nyvelocity ... Be honest to authorities, if asked, and run a team the best I can. Pretty simple. Same as last year, same as always."

So seems like his intentions are to only be honest with authorities, if asked mind you, and as always not be honest with the public even when asked.

So I guess he will not step up.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

What the heck are you talking about? He already is "making a difference." JV is doing everything he can to make the sport better. His team is about as non-doping as you're going to find, especially at the Pro Tour level.

He's running the AIGCP and locking horns with the UCI over the race radio ban and the power structure of the sport to make it better for teams.

He's encouraged his riders to cooperate with the feds.

What else do you want him to do? Not sure what "come forward" means either. Maybe JV doesn't have any direct personal knowledge of LA doping - maybe that's why he's not "coming forward." As for allowing "Armstrong's goons to smear his former teammates" - again, not sure what you want JV to do about that since it involves specific incidents he wasn't privy to. Why would JV get involved in any of that?

How do you know JV hasn't already testified before the grand jury? Answer: you don't.

My guess is he's preparing his team for the Tour de France and not taking your advice.

Its quite amusing that you answered 'Damianos' post with such outrage and missed the highlighted point...

I am tired of this guy giving sanctimonious lectures about the good of the sport while his supporters assure us that he is working behind the scenes to make a better world. When will he get the stones to come forward and make a difference? It seems that he would rather lay low and keep quiet while watching Armstrong's goons smear his old teammates.

To the OP - JV is in a bind and to me there are two different things going on here.
1 - Is to with LA and USPS. As long as he is completely honest in front of a GJ or when questioned then thats good enough for me.
2 - His own personal doping - this I don't understand. He has all but admitted it and yet has not made the final leap. I think this harms his 'image' of setting up and running a clean team and not being honest on his own past.
Most people accept he doped - if he gives his reasons why he doped and articulates why it bothered him he could show why he does not want the same environment for his own team and I think that candor would be accepted by most cycling fans.

 

[Chuffy]

Well, when asked something like "What are you gonna do now?" by @nyvelocity after leaks of TH and GH JV answered:

"@nyvelocity ... Be honest to authorities, if asked, and run a team the best I can. Pretty simple. Same as last year, same as always."

So seems like his intentions are to only be honest with authorities, if asked mind you, and as always not be honest with the public even when asked.

So I guess he will not step up.

If he's stepped up privately, to the authorities (presumably WADA, USADA and the Feds) and encouraged others to do likewise (iirc he advised Landis to do this) surely that is more important and constructive than putting on a show for you? As for honesty - so far as I know he's never lied or bullsh*tted in his public statements. They tend to be on the cryptic side, but he's (deliberately, in my view) given enough away to anyone who knows the background and cares to read between the lines.

 

[thehog]

2 - His own personal doping - this I don't understand. He has all but admitted it and yet has not made the final leap. I think this harms his 'image' of setting up and running a clean team and not being honest on his own past.
Most people accept he doped - if he gives his reasons why he doped and articulates why it bothered him he could show why he does not want the same environment for his own team and I think that candor would be accepted by most cycling fans.

In JV's mind he did dope but he also didn't dope. i.e. he moved teams and got off the sauce. In a world of dope he did something positive to get away from it.

Secondly there is an issue with JV and Lance. People want JV to say he doped because it implicates the Hog and Lance. JV is anti-doping not anti-Lance and there is a big difference. To me this is fair.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

In JV's mind he did dope but he also didn't dope. i.e. he moved teams and got off the sauce. In a world of dope he did something positive to get away from it.

The IM between himself & Frankie would suggest that - and if so that is a compelling story that most fans would not only understand but appreciate.

Secondly there is an issue with JV and Lance. People want JV to say he doped because it implicates the Hog and Lance. JV is anti-doping not anti-Lance and there is a big difference. To me this is fair.

I do see this - but to me its a separate issue, as you say there is a distinction of anti-Lance and anti-doping.
I think he can easily avoid bringing in LA in a public confession by saying 'I cannot talk about that because of the ongoing investigation".

 

[tubularglue]

why would he acknowledge his meeting with the FDA ?

 

[pmcg76]

I would like to know what happened to that letter allegedly from Landis that was posted on here at the weekend but got pulled down right quick. There were a few responses as I went to bed but next day it had disappeared.
Since then the 60minutes discussion has taken over.

In that letter, it seemed according to Landis that JV had admitted his doping to officials way back but was also aware of riders doping on Garmin, hence the US Postal 2 comment. Wiggins seems to have been of particular suspicion.

I hadnt realsied a previous letter concerning Steffen Prentice had been posted here and JV came on to defend their position, this time the letter got pulled almost immediately. Why? Because there was more serious accusations in the latest letter.

I have never been anti Garmin or anti JV but found these latest happening's strange to say the least.

 

[thirteen]

Soon I'm told. A statement of sorts. Maybe a way of jabbing the UCI to death ready for Breakaway 1.0.

ah... a hint of what you said was coming?

 

[Mambo95]

I would like to know what happened to that letter allegedly from Landis that was posted on here at the weekend but got pulled down right quick. There were a few responses as I went to bed but next day it had disappeared.
Since then the 60minutes discussion has taken over.

In that letter, it seemed according to Landis that JV had admitted his doping to officials way back but was also aware of riders doping on Garmin, hence the US Postal 2 comment. Wiggins seems to have been of particular suspicion.

I hadnt realsied a previous letter concerning Steffen Prentice had been posted here and JV came on to defend their position, this time the letter got pulled almost immediately. Why? Because there was more serious accusations in the latest letter.

I have never been anti Garmin or anti JV but found these latest happening's strange to say the least.

It probably got pulled because there had to be major questions as to its authenticity. It was posted by an anonymous poster, with only a handful of posts. The letter hasn't surfaced anywhere else. The style of writing and content was more similar to some Clinic posters than it was to Landis. My guess is that it was written by a poster on here and wasn't genuine. You can only really publish something like that if you're fairly certain that it's genuine.

 

[skippythepinhead]

In JV's mind he did dope but he also didn't dope. i.e. he moved teams and got off the sauce. In a world of dope he did something positive to get away from it.

Secondly there is an issue with JV and Lance. People want JV to say he doped because it implicates the Hog and Lance. JV is anti-doping not anti-Lance and there is a big difference. To me this is fair.

I'm sorry, but I simply don't see it. Maybe there's a notion that it would be too "messy" to have to own up to the past, but it's really (really) hard for me to take anything JV says (or--more importantly--does) seriously enough. I don't care whether JV discussing his own past and the sport's past implicates anyone. NOT discussing it, or leaving it open to interpretation through cryptic nonsense is still continuing the machinations of omertà, and detracts from the credibility of his efforts.

 

[thehog]

I'm sorry, but I simply don't see it. Maybe there's a notion that it would be too "messy" to have to own up to the past, but it's really (really) hard for me to take anything JV says (or--more importantly--does) seriously enough. I don't care whether JV discussing his own past and the sport's past implicates anyone. NOT discussing it, or leaving it open to interpretation through cryptic nonsense is still continuing the machinations of omertà, and detracts from the credibility of his efforts.

Tyler explained exactly this. You can't tell a little bit of the truth. As soon as you do it opens the door. Riis was lucky. Said he did it alone and that was that. But as soon as you said you did the next question is: "Did you see Lance do it?" What then? Lie and say "No"?

JV does his bit in the team and pushing for better and cleaner cycling. You don't need full on media confessions to make it legitimate.

 

[skippythepinhead]

Tyler explained exactly this. You can't tell a little bit of the truth. As soon as you do it opens the door. Riis was lucky. Said he did it alone and that was that. But as soon as you said you did the next question is: "Did you see Lance do it?" What then? Lie and say "No"?

JV does his bit in the team and pushing for better and cleaner cycling. You don't need full on media confessions to make it legitimate.

"Did you see Lance do it?"

"I'm not here to discuss that."

Currently both LA and JV are equally clean and committed to clean cycling. Maybe you and he don't see it that way, but if we're expected to leave JV alone, why the dogged pursuit of Lance?

 

[thehog]

Currently both LA and JV are equally clean and committed to clean cycling.

 

[skippythepinhead]

Neither of them have come clean and both have public anti-doping stances.

I'm not attacking JV, just saying I don't feel he occupies his space fully. As long as you and he like his credibility that's what matters.

Obviously, it's a long game, and he may like his current position. As to his possible role as the lord savior of cycling, I'm just not that into him.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Tyler explained exactly this. You can't tell a little bit of the truth. As soon as you do it opens the door. Riis was lucky. Said he did it alone and that was that. But as soon as you said you did the next question is: "Did you see Lance do it?" What then? Lie and say "No"?

JV does his bit in the team and pushing for better and cleaner cycling. You don't need full on media confessions to make it legitimate.

Tyler chose to talk to '60 minutes'.

JV could do a one on one interview (like he did with Anthony Tan) the follow up question could be answered with the "ongoing investigation" line - worked for Hincapie.

 

[Chuffy]

Neither of them have come clean and both have public anti-doping stances.

Seriously? Has JV lied and lied and lied and put the boot into anyone who *does* take an anti-doping stance? That's about as false a comparison as I can think of.

I'm not attacking JV, just saying I don't feel he occupies his space fully. As long as you and he like his credibility that's what matters.

Obviously, it's a long game, and he may like his current position. As to his possible role as the lord savior of cycling, I'm just not that into him.

The only way in which JV doesn't 'occupy his space' is by not pandering to (some) posters on here by doing a very public kiss and tell. The rest of what he does more than makes up for that. If that isn't enough for you that's tough.

 

[skippythepinhead]

Seriously? Has JV lied and lied and lied and put the boot into anyone who *does* take an anti-doping stance? That's about as false a comparison as I can think of.


The only way in which JV doesn't 'occupy his space' is by not pandering to (some) posters on here by doing a very public kiss and tell. The rest of what he does more than makes up for that. If that isn't enough for you that's tough.

There's no point in arguing with you; this will wait for history.

 

[blackcat]

Seriously? Has JV lied and lied and lied and put the boot into anyone who *does* take an anti-doping stance? That's about as false a comparison as I can think of.


The only way in which JV doesn't 'occupy his space' is by not pandering to (some) posters on here by doing a very public kiss and tell. The rest of what he does more than makes up for that. If that isn't enough for you that's tough.

I dont want nor need a mea culpa for his own doping. He aleady said so much, in as many words.

I am more concerned at his disingenuous rhetoric on SS Sports. They are not as clean as he contends publicly, and the pursuit of Contador makes the whole premise of the team absolutely risible.

 

[Chuffy]

There's no point in arguing with you; this will wait for history.

If you can come up with a more robust equivalence between JV and Tex than 'Neither of them have come clean and both have public anti-doping stances.' then I'm willing to listen. However, the first part of your argument is arguable (LA has lied repeatedly, JV has been cryptic, but he's not denied anything and hasn't made it hard for anyone to read between the lines) and the last part is laughable. LA has a public anti-doping stance? I think not.

We can agree to differ if you like.

 

[skippythepinhead]

I'm saying let's leave our feelings out of it--has Lance said anything to indicate that he is anything other than opposed to doping? Then that's his public posture. Whether we believe it is another story.

I'm just a little uncomfortable grandfathering Vaughters into the putative new era of cycling based on his cryptic statements while expecting a full expose, and subsequent banishment/ostracization of Lance Armstrong--even granting the different magnitude.

But you are right in that JV doesn't owe me a thing. I don't take any of it personally. I respect your defense of him, and am perfectly happy to agree to disagree.