Which of Merckx' wins were in classics?

[TMP402]

Sorry for the possibly misleading title. I read that Merckx won 28 classics. Obviously the 19 Monuments he won make up the bulk of that, leaving us with 9 non-Monument classic wins. Looking through his palmares, I find the following contenders:

Gent-Wevelgem 1967
Flèche Wallonne 1967

Tre Valli Varesine 1968

Gent-Wevelgem 1970
Flèche Wallonne 1970

Omloop Het Volk 1971

Flèche Wallonne 1972
Giro dell'Emilia 1972
Giro del Piemonte 1972
Scheldeprijs 1972

Amstel Gold Race 1973
Gent-Wevelgem 1973
Omloop Het Volk 1973
Grand Prix de Fourmies 1973
Paris-Brussels 1973

Amstel Gold Race 1975

So which of these classics, now-classics and semi-classics would be the 9? I'm guessing it's FW x 3 + GW x 3 + Paris-Brussels, but after that I don't know.

 

[Blanco]

Sorry for the possibly misleading title. I read that Merckx won 28 classics. Obviously the 19 Monuments he won make up the bulk of that, leaving us with 9 non-Monument classic wins. Looking through his palmares, I find the following contenders:

Gent-Wevelgem 1967
Flèche Wallonne 1967

Tre Valli Varesine 1968

Gent-Wevelgem 1970
Flèche Wallonne 1970

Omloop Het Volk 1971

Flèche Wallonne 1972
Giro dell'Emilia 1972
Giro del Piemonte 1972
Scheldeprijs 1972

Amstel Gold Race 1973
Gent-Wevelgem 1973
Omloop Het Volk 1973
Grand Prix de Fourmies 1973
Paris-Brussels 1973

Amstel Gold Race 1975

So which of these classics, now-classics and semi-classics would be the 9? I'm guessing it's FW x 3 + GW x 3 + Paris-Brussels, but after that I don't know.

+ 2x Amstel, that's 9. Classics at that time were MSR, Ronde, Roubaix, Liege, Lombardia, Paris-Tours, Fleche, Paris-Brussels, Amstel, Zurich and GW. Bordeaux-Paris was also a significant race, but I wouldn't call it a classic cause it was 500km long and motor-paced! Het Volk was also a major race at that time, maybe not equal with those above, but just slightly below that level. Frankfurt also...

 

[GuyIncognito]

I'm guessing it's a lot like his claim of 54 wins in a season that includes a ton of pre-arranged criteriums....not accurate, just a boast.

 

[TMP402]

+ 2x Amstel, that's 9. Classics at that time were MSR, Ronde, Roubaix, Liege, Lombardia, Paris-Tours, Fleche, Paris-Brussels, Amstel, Zurich and GW. Bordeaux-Paris was also a significant race, but I wouldn't call it a classic cause it was 500km long and motor-paced! Het Volk was also a major race at that time, maybe not equal with those above, but just slightly below that level. Frankfurt also...

So AGR was the Strade Bianche of its day? As in Merckx won it in only its eighth edition, and it was already considered a classic?

 

[Durden93]

I'm guessing it's a lot like his claim of 54 wins in a season that includes a ton of pre-arranged criteriums....not accurate, just a boast.

You can't really compare Merckx to contemporary cyclists. He started 1800 races in 14 years as a pro. That's at least 50 more per year than modern cyclists.

 

[Tonton]

That's a lot of wins...Blanco is right, it's GW, FW, AGR, PB that make the 9.

 

[Echoes]

Amstel Gold was fairly recent back then and hardly considered classic. It's up for debate. However in his "carnets de route" 1973 he already pointed out that the climbs of Dutch Limburg had nothing to "envy" those in the Flemish Ardennes. And back then, if I'm not mistaken, there were no Keutenberg (verification needed). The comparison with the Strade Bianche seems rather good to me. My father said there only were talks about Amstel Gold when Raas won it repetitively. But when Hinault won it he didn't seem quite enthusiastic. Amstel Gold got a real boost with the World Cup in 1989.

The Arrow was roughly equal to Liège-Bastogne-Liège. I've said it quite often but back then the label "Monument" did not exist. It came in the late eighties when the UCI World Cup was already a project. When Rolf Gölz won the Arrow in 1988, "Vélo Magazine" said he would be a great champion when he wins a "monument". That was about the first time it came out.

Paris-Brussels was definitely a classic even though it was the resumption year. The first time it was held in autumn. Up until 1966 it was probably equal to Liège-Bastogne-Liège too and held in spring. The calendar was a bit clogged. Too many classics in spring.

Liège-Bastogne-Liège really started being the great classic that we know today in the Merckx era. First because of the new added climbs (Stockeu and later the Redoute) and second because it benefitted from the temporary disappearance of Paris-Brussels and its eventual move to autumn.

 

[TMP402]

Amstel Gold was fairly recent back then and hardly considered classic. It's up for debate. However in his "carnets de route" 1973 he already pointed out that the climbs of Dutch Limburg had nothing to "envy" those in the Flemish Ardennes. And back then, if I'm not mistaken, there were no Keutenberg (verification needed). The comparison with the Strade Bianche seems rather good to me. My father said there only were talks about Amstel Gold when Raas won it repetitively. But when Hinault won it he didn't seem quite enthusiastic. Amstel Gold got a real boost with the World Cup in 1989.

The Arrow was roughly equal to Liège-Bastogne-Liège. I've said it quite often but back then the label "Monument" did not exist. It came in the late eighties when the UCI World Cup was already a project. When Rolf Gölz won the Arrow in 1988, "Vélo Magazine" said he would be a great champion when he wins a "monument". That was about the first time it came out.

Paris-Brussels was definitely a classic even though it was the resumption year. The first time it was held in autumn. Up until 1966 it was probably equal to Liège-Bastogne-Liège too and held in spring. The calendar was a bit clogged. Too many classics in spring.

Liège-Bastogne-Liège really started being the great classic that we know today in the Merckx era. First because of the new added climbs (Stockeu and later the Redoute) and second because it benefitted from the temporary disappearance of Paris-Brussels and its eventual move to autumn.

Thank you, this is exactly the sort of answer I was hoping for - but as you say it's still open to debate as to whether the final two classics were AGR. Do you dismiss the possibility it was Het Volk? Or any combination of the others listed?

 

[Blanco]

Amstel Gold took Paris-Brussels place in the calendar already in his 2nd year, 1967, and although it was certainly not a classic right from the beginning already in 1969 Merckx rode it and finished 3rd. In next couple of years some significant classic riders won it, like Verbeeck, Pintens and Walter Planckaert, with Merckx, Gimondi, Van Springel, Zoetemelk, Godefroot taking part in it. By the time Merckx won it for the first time, in 1973, the race was established as a classic imo. The field and the list of winners in the coming years shows that. Creme de la creme of the one-day racing attended that race: Merckx, De Vlaeminck, Maertens, Moser, Raas, Kuiper, Poulidor, Zoetemelk, Verbeeck, Godefroot, Kelly, Hinault, and many more. So I would say that Amstel Gold was already a classic in the early 1970's, in the late 70's certainly. And I believe it was slightly more significant race than Het Volk in that time, unless you're not a die-hard Flandrien.

 

[TMP402]

Re:

The field and the list of winners in the coming years shows that. Creme de la creme of the one-day racing attended that race: Merckx, De Vlaeminck, Maertens, Moser, Raas, Kuiper, Poulidor, Zoetemelk, Verbeeck, Godefroot, Kelly, Hinault, and Gasparotto. So I would say that Amstel Gold was already a classic in the early 1970's, in the late 70's certainly. And I believe it was slightly more significant race than Het Volk in that time, unless you're not a die-hard Flandrien.

Fixed that for you. But in all seriousness, thanks for your perspective.

 

[Tonton]

[quote="TMP402[/urlThank you, this is exactly the sort of answer I was hoping for - but as you say it's still open to debate as to whether the final two classics were AGR. Do you dismiss the possibility it was Het Volk? Or any combination of the others listed?[/quote]
It's not open to debate, really. The Amstel was a classic back in the '70s. I remember Raas winning it a bunch of times, then Hinault...it was a classic then. So was Paris-Tours, the only classique never won by Merckx (became Tours-Versailles, Blois-Chaville, then back to Paris-Tours). Het Volk never was a classique: it was referred to as a "semi-classique".

 

[Echoes]

Sorry TMP I posted a bit in a hurry before work and I missed you referred to Merckx winning 28 classics. I didn't know about that figure. Do you have the source for it?

Anyway everything I say is critizeable. After all that was way before my time but I read quite a few books from that era. Probably Amstel Gold was more classic-like than Omloop (then Het Volk) but Marc Jeuniau from the RTBF considered both races as races that were growing in importance but he had a hard time considering them classics (at that time) [I think it was in one of the Merckx' "Carnets de route"]. The other possibility that I had in mind was the Worlds being considered a classic, but that would've made it 29 classics and not 28.

What might support Blanco's claim is that Amstel Gold was a part of the Superprestige-Pernod and not the Omloop. Let me share an article I found on the net which I've already shared on another thread but it's quite a "document". So the point system for Superprestige in 1976:

I think the problem for the contemporary observers is that Amstel Gold was fairly recent and so journalists are accustomed to their old classics that a man Marc Jeuniau would probably have been hesitant to consider Amstel Gold as a classic back then, a bit like it's been quite puzzling to consider Hamburg as a classic even in the World Cup period. Nowadays of course none of us would even question that Amstel Gold is a classic.

Sure its belonging to the Superprestige guaranteed Amstel a high-level field but how motivated were all these stars. Back then Amstel Gold was held between Milan-Sanremo and the Tour of Flanders. So it was a bit of a season opener and many riders needed it as a build-up but they were not necessarily in top form.

Also I cannot resist sharing a passage from Hinault's autobiography: "Le peloton des souvenirs" (personal translation). I found it quite funny. Vintage Hinault, of course.

I wanted to race the Tour of the Tarn but the UCI compelled me to race Amstel Gold Race. We were a small 6-man team. Half of us were sick or in recovery. [...] We had no staff members, hardly a couple of reserve bikes. The Dutchmen gave us a mechanic and a soigneur, they lent us a car: we were there as tourist, so to speak. We did not really race. We let the breakaways go, it did not interest us a bit! [...] With one kilometer to go, I overtook the whole peloton [...]. I had nothing to lose because I felt like a tourist soul! I just wanted to have a little bit of fun. [...] I really thought in hindsight that I had no chance in the sprint but that in so doing I could be in the first ten. Starting the sprint so early I exhausted the other ones who could not reach by pedals again. It was very windy. Head wind. Jan Raas struggled, elbow to elbow, for 200m and then he dropped everything, all of a sudden. It really was the first time I saw him made such a discouraged move, he who is usually so fierce [...]. We did not even have any bidons, nor any pump, just a couple of reserve wheels, period. I left the Netherlands with a few pewter pots. The most unexpected trophy of my whole career. Winning full of innocent enthusiasm ["la fleur au fusil"] is magical. Almost a joke!

 

[TMP402]

That's excellent, thank you Echoes. The 28 figure seems to be common on the internet. For example:

Records tumbled in his wake and have never been bettered: most career victories (525), most wins in a season (54), most Classics victories (28), the greatest number of Grand Tour wins (11) and so on and so on.

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/100-tours-100-tales/2014/apr/04/cycling-eddy-merckx-1969-tour-flanders

And that list reminds me: BRING BACK BORDEAUX-PARIS.

 

[Tonton]

Re:

That's excellent, thank you Echoes. The 28 figure seems to be common on the internet. For example:

Records tumbled in his wake and have never been bettered: most career victories (525), most wins in a season (54), most Classics victories (28), the greatest number of Grand Tour wins (11) and so on and so on.

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/100-tours-100-tales/2014/apr/04/cycling-eddy-merckx-1969-tour-flanders

And that list reminds me: BRING BACK BORDEAUX-PARIS.

The 28 figure has existed ever since I can remember, probably including the Guinness Book in the '80s. like 525, 96, this is all documented. What murks the water is the monument thing, and some wannabees like San Sebastian, La Classique des Alpes, Frankfurt, other races trying to make it up there.

Het Volk never was a classic...too bad for Fons DW, one of my favorite riders of the '80's. Sagan before Sagan, he just got overwhelmed by the "next-Eddy" syndrome. Still, what a record. A big champion.

But when it's all said and done, classiques as they were recorded in the late '70s and '80s were MSR, GDL, PR, RVV, GW, FW, AGR, PB, PT...

Note: in France, we always considered the Amstel as a lesser classic, like the Aussie Open in Tennis the PGA in Golf.

 

[Echoes]

OK points are taken.

Could we however agree on the fact that Amstel Gold got a boost with the creation of the World Cup (1989) and its belonging to it at the expense of the Arrow and then perhaps in 2003 when it came the week before Liège-Bastogne-Liège instead of the week afterwards. It certainly enjoys higher prestige nowadays than back then, doesn't it?

 

[Blanco]

OK points are taken.

Could we however agree on the fact that Amstel Gold got a boost with the creation of the World Cup (1989) and its belonging to it at the expense of the Arrow and then perhaps in 2003 when it came the week before Liège-Bastogne-Liège instead of the week afterwards. It certainly enjoys higher prestige nowadays than back then, doesn't it?

Of course, it's much bigger race now.

 

[Tonton]

OK points are taken.

Could we however agree on the fact that Amstel Gold got a boost with the creation of the World Cup (1989) and its belonging to it at the expense of the Arrow and then perhaps in 2003 when it came the week before Liège-Bastogne-Liège instead of the week afterwards. It certainly enjoys higher prestige nowadays than back then, doesn't it?

Absolutely...no doubt.