Which ProCycling team do you consider the dirtiest dopers?

[Tom375]

Just for fun!

There's a lot of opposing views just visit the Sky thread.
Does that mean that posters in there think they are the dirtiest dopers or simply that because they were the most successful team in 2012 the spotlight is on them??
- Therefore they have the most to defend.Surely if they hadn't won anything this thread would be a tenth of the size.. That's fair dues anyway don't think cycling is quite like football (soccer for our american cousins) in this respect but know from that you always hate the most successful team if they are not your team (there does seem to be an elemant of that here both for and against) Personally don't support any team in cycling.
Anyhows there are still a lot of teams with a shady history, shady team members DS's, doctors etc.
i.e there will always be a bit of a whiff around Saxobank, Astana, Katusha (oh forgot they're not a pro team anymore)
Who do you think the worst culprits are for 2012?
Feel free to leave comments as to why...

 

[Maxiton]

Kind of a tossup, isn't it?


PS. I meant to vote Sky.

 

[Ferminal]

What is more dirty: having 3/4 of your squad on a basic program, or top ups for your mountain train?

 

[ElChingon]

What's dirtier than having riders on your team that had to testify in front of a grand jury, including the DS. Don't get much dirtier than that, then you have all the conspiracy and what not. Everyone else is in 2nd Place.

 

[workingclasshero]

el teamo skyo you so naughty

 

[Dazed and Confused]

Sky was in a different class in 2012.
With Lampre struggling with results and having joined the MPCC they will likely be up there in 2013.

 

[maltiv]

Katusha's list of staff members involved in doping, including 3 doctors, is so large that it's almost impossible imagining them not having a team-wide doping program.

 

[taiwan]

Just looking at how many Sky riders had their best ever seasons last year. Astana and Katusha are undoubtedly "old school" as they come, but Sky appear to be in USPS territory.

 

[D-Queued]

Thought this would be a slam dunk until I reviewed the list.

Good poll, really tough choice. Is it possible that there is a dirtier team than one that is JB led? Yes.

Dave.

 

[spalco]

Saxo imo, although there are clearly other contenders as well.

 

[Tom375]

What is more dirty: having 3/4 of your squad on a basic program, or top ups for your mountain train?

Open to interpretation really, IMO the more widespread you think it is in a particular team the dirtier it is. If you think 3/4 of a squad is on a basic program that's pretty widespread!
If you think a team has a doping program a la USPS stylie that's damn dirty in my book..
Top ups for mountain train seems pretty similar as your talking about a co-ordinated doping effort to win races across multiple cyclists again USPS style.
If you think a team might have suspect characters in that are running a private doping regime thats dirty but again IMO not as dirty..
- That sort of doping indicates a corruption of given cyclist not entire team.
However teams that know they have these suspicious cyclists but turn a blind eye etc. that notches them up a ratchet in terms of dirtiness.
- This may not be an exact science , its just the way i see it i suppose. Your welcome to put your own interpretation on it! As i said in OP just a bit of fun to see what regular members of clinic really think.

BTW - i don't think that its the quantity of doping that counts as it is pretty much accepted that those that do - microdose now; the question remains though to dope or not to dope?, cheat or not to cheat?

 

[TrackCynic]

Hard to say who is the dirtiest. Just about all of them have doctors, managers or staff members who have been dopers or linked to doping. BMC's Ochowicz & Hincapie, Garmin's Vaughters, Sky's Leinders, Katusha's doctors, etc, etc, etc.

 

[ebandit]

gotta be strict

well there you go..........................the team with perhaps the strictist

anti doping stance are perceived to be the biggest dopers?

the twisted logic of 'the clinic'...............or poor sky pr?

or just that team sky are merely the least popular?

from current voting

 

[the asian]

Tough question.

Based on last year have to go with Sky.

OPQS with the good doctor Ibarguren in 2nd place with ever present Katusha rounding off the podium.
Radio shack were off the mark last year.

 

[D-Queued]

We need three other choices:

1. All the above
2. All the above except the French Teams
3. The French Teams

Dave.

 

[Tom375]

We need three other choices:

1. All the above
2. All the above except the French Teams
3. The French Teams

Dave.

I was originally going to make it so that you could vote for as many teams as you liked but thought it would be a bit messy, surely the most sensible answer might be that all teams probably dope, would like to think that that's not true but cycling history prevents this from being an assumption.

With regard to the French teams option - i wouldn't usually go for something as nationalistic it usually end up in BS but.. that one might be quite interesting as my perception is that they are generally considered the cleaner of the teams post Festina. If that is true why is that? Is it just because they haven't had the big wins? or because they've cleaned up their act more and Why isn't their method of cleaning up being looked at more closely considering that's what the sport is allegedly trying to do at the moment?

Interesting..

 

[hiero2]

Well, Ashenden has said he believes there are teams still doing it. But I find it hard to say, once you get down to it. There are the typical choices, but they somewhat reflect a certain nationalistic prejudice (typical for the US): eg Katusha and Astana. Because Levi was on OmegaPharma, I doubted them. I doubt Boonen's results this year.

Who else? Sagan - I doubt his results.

Abstain.

 

[del1962]

Perhaps the question should have been which team do you think is dirtiest or vote for the one you dislike most instead

 

[the asian]

With regard to the French teams option - i wouldn't usually go for something as nationalistic it usually end up in BS but.. that one might be quite interesting as my perception is that they are generally considered the cleaner of the teams post Festina. If that is true why is that? Is it just because they haven't had the big wins? or because they've cleaned up their act more and Why isn't their method of cleaning up being looked at more closely considering that's what the sport is allegedly trying to do at the moment?

Interesting..

Mainly because Doping is a criminal offence in France. You actually go to jail for it.
Also,
Some of the riders reputed to be clean are/were in French teams( Casar, Moncoutie, Fedrigo),

Riders who rode for French teams have indicated so ( Roche, Hushovd,)

The French riders have been good in the juniors/Espoirs but have sucked since turning pro's ( Usually a sign of not doping)

 

[Netserk]

Mainly because Doping is a criminal offence in France. You actually go to jail for it.
Also,
Some of the riders reputed to be clean are/were in French teams( Casar, Moncoutie, Fedrigo),

Riders who rode for French teams have indicated so ( Roche, Hushovd,)

The French riders have been good in the juniors/Espoirs but have sucked since turning pro's ( Usually a sign of not doping)

Or sign of doping early

 

[the asian]

Or sign of doping early

and being too lazy after success goes in to their head.

 

[ElChingon]

Well, Ashenden has said he believes there are teams still doing it.

When did you think it stopped? Its like saying insider trading has stopped after the Nth scandal on the matter, all you have to do is watch more races and know the history of rider N who wins.

Just because Team/Rider says they're are not doing it or anti-doping, it means it is not going on? Come on hiero2, I know well enough you know that is a far reaching hook.

 

[Ferminal]

well there you go..........................the team with perhaps the strictist

anti doping stance are perceived to be the biggest dopers?

the twisted logic of 'the clinic'...............or poor sky pr?

or just that team sky are merely the least popular?

from current voting

Like Katusha?

 

[sniper]

Could we have CyclingNews write a short newsitem on the outcome of this poll?

seriously.

 

[inri2000]

well there you go..........................the team with perhaps the strictist

anti doping stance are perceived to be the biggest dopers?

the twisted logic of 'the clinic'...............or poor sky pr?

or just that team sky are merely the least popular?

from current voting

doesnt matter what your public stance on doping is, if under the surface you're as dirty as the inside of a vacuum cleaner