Who has Not Doped?

[42x16ss]

Re:

chris boardman? quit cycling because of low T, supposedly.

In the year 2000, at the young age of 32, after winning the TdF prologue 3 times, Dauphine prologue several times, ITT world's + several other medals, Romandie prologue, GP des Nations, 2 x Duo Normand, 2 x Pursuit WC's and 2 x hour records - almost all during the unrestricted EPO years....

Uh huh

 

[Archibald]

Re: Re:

chris boardman? quit cycling because of low T, supposedly.

In the year 2000, at the young age of 32, after winning the TdF prologue 3 times, Dauphine prologue several times, ITT world's + several other medals, Romandie prologue, GP des Nations, 2 x Duo Normand, 2 x Pursuit WC's and 2 x hour records - almost all during the unrestricted EPO years....

Uh huh

wonder what folks thoughts are as to O'Bree then...

 

[markene2]

Kashechkin after his suspension. And Mads Kaggestad

 

[42x16ss]

Re: Re:

chris boardman? quit cycling because of low T, supposedly.

In the year 2000, at the young age of 32, after winning the TdF prologue 3 times, Dauphine prologue several times, ITT world's + several other medals, Romandie prologue, GP des Nations, 2 x Duo Normand, 2 x Pursuit WC's and 2 x hour records - almost all during the unrestricted EPO years....

Uh huh

wonder what folks thoughts are as to O'Bree then...

O'Bree set Hour records using innovative positions, training and engineering, he didn't beat the likes of Indurain, Riis, Ullrich, Olano and Jalabert in TdF prologues....

 

[ppanther92]

Georg Preidler

 

[Nellyspania]

Re: Re:

chris boardman? quit cycling because of low T, supposedly.

In the year 2000, at the young age of 32, after winning the TdF prologue 3 times, Dauphine prologue several times, ITT world's + several other medals, Romandie prologue, GP des Nations, 2 x Duo Normand, 2 x Pursuit WC's and 2 x hour records - almost all during the unrestricted EPO years....

Uh huh

I see where you're coming from as regards the exceptional results but the 50% rule was in force from 1997; in my mind if Boardman was EPO'd or BB'd to the limit by a doctor surely he would also would be looking to increase his low testosterone to a more 'normal' level thus improving his poor form in GT's etc.
Of course I do accept the possibility that the 'Massive engine/Low T' story may have been a fabrication.

 

[The Carrot]

Re: Re:

chris boardman? quit cycling because of low T, supposedly.

In the year 2000, at the young age of 32, after winning the TdF prologue 3 times, Dauphine prologue several times, ITT world's + several other medals, Romandie prologue, GP des Nations, 2 x Duo Normand, 2 x Pursuit WC's and 2 x hour records - almost all during the unrestricted EPO years....

Uh huh

I see where you're coming from as regards the exceptional results but the 50% rule was in force from 1997; in my mind if Boardman was EPO'd or BB'd to the limit by a doctor surely he would also would be looking to increase his low testosterone to a more 'normal' level thus improving his poor form in GT's etc.
Of course I do accept the possibility that the 'Massive engine/Low T' story may have been a fabrication.

I remember him saying, it wasn't the low T that caused him quit so much as the UCI not approving the treatment to correct it.

 

[beowulf]

Re: Re:

Yuki Kawauchi: http://www.slate.com/articles/sports/sports_nut/2013/06/yuki_kawauchi_meet_the_marathon_running_government_clerk_who_s_a_national.html

Basically he just runs until he drops. The marathon is about mental toughness and this guy is as tough as they come.

I would like to think that most of the Japanese distance runners are not doping. I believe this for a number of reasons, but the main one is that they would be a doing a lot better if they doped. They have tremendous depth in the marathon and most distance events, but very seldom do they ever run ridiculous times; Takaoka holds their marathon record at 2 hrs 6 mins, which is three minutes slower than the WR. That time came at the end of the EPO era, but still is only two minutes faster than what Seko was running in the 80's.

Like I say if they are doping they must not be doing it very well. The women are perhaps a little more suspicious than the men, but they have not done anything out of the ordinary. The great ones like Noguchi and Takahashi pretty much regressed once they hit their early 30's, which for me is natural for a clean athlete.

The Japanese have a real interesting system. Few, if any, doping violations, news or revelations. Their corporate system is like the NCAA for adults: structured, financed, and competitive for an age where the athletes aren't also learning how to live by themselves and not get drunk 5 times a week.

Huge marathon depth, at a believable level. No stand-out performers, especially not on the track. I've gleened a little bit here and there, but I'm always trying to wrap my head around the characteristics that make the Japanese athletic culture seemingly clean, and relatively (not at a world level, but quality of depth) high performing.

I think it comes down to a lack of a drug culture in Japan. Obviously there are people who take recreational drugs in Japan, but they are in the minority and they would very seldom admit to it, because it really is seen as something you should not do. They do not really differentiate between hard and soft illegal drugs, they are all bad in the eyes of the law and for most people in Japan.

So most drugs for doping fall into the illegal category therefore they do not use them. Of course this is just a theory of mine and there have been a few MMA fighters who have been caught doping over the years.

As for Suguru Osako who runs with Salazar I will give him the benefit of the doubt, because he was tipped for a huge future long before he started training with Salazar. But being associated with Salazar is not a good look.

 

["Jeff"]

Re: Re:

But here you say every rider has a link with doping:

Not doping abuse necessarily. Looked obvious to me. I was talking about a doping link.

Somebody called him out because he rode for Banesto, well so did Andy Hampsten. Andy Hampsten hit top 10 in the Giro between all kinds of EPO wonders. I think its ridiculous to accuse somebody because another rider of the team was doped.

 

[robin440]

illnur

 

[JetSet]

Re:

chris boardman? quit cycling because of low T, supposedly.

No, He was diagnosed with osteoporosis when he was 30.

Pete

 

[The Hitch]

Re: Re:

chris boardman? quit cycling because of low T, supposedly.

In the year 2000, at the young age of 32, after winning the TdF prologue 3 times, Dauphine prologue several times, ITT world's + several other medals, Romandie prologue, GP des Nations, 2 x Duo Normand, 2 x Pursuit WC's and 2 x hour records - almost all during the unrestricted EPO years....

Uh huh

I see where you're coming from as regards the exceptional results but the 50% rule was in force from 1997; in my mind if Boardman was EPO'd or BB'd to the limit by a doctor surely he would also would be looking to increase his low testosterone to a more 'normal' level thus improving his poor form in GT's etc.
Of course I do accept the possibility that the 'Massive engine/Low T' story may have been a fabrication.

I think the "Boardman - clean" argument was a lot more potent a few years ago when we knew less about doping and people were less cynical. In 2009, a lot of players we now all agree doped were still regarded as possibly clean.
Even only 1 year ago Paula Radcliffe was being defended quite a lot on here and many of us were hesitant to accuse her too much.

Now we know Paula doped. That ridiculous record, we should have known all along, could not have been acheived without EPO and some BS pr stunts with a no EPO sign don't change that.

To me Boardman is the same. Deep down we all know its extremely unlikely that he was beating all his EPO pals clean in the era of mass doping. Plausible explanations have been put forward to try and hold the line against this.

At the end of the day he was ready to get on the gravy train for every doper. Indurain who everyone knew was a doper, Boardman had nothing but praise for. Lance - "he's one of the most tested athletes in the world - what more can he do than pass test after test?"

Froome now, he's asked on ITV what he thinks of the scepticism and he won't even aknowledge the possibility. Froome is clean. Boardman knows this. Sky have the most money so buy the best riders.

Anyone who defended Lance and has not learnt their lesson, continues to deny cycling has a doping problem and claims to know guys like Froome are clean. You know full well where they stand.

 

[The Hitch]

No mention of Darryl Webster?

 

[Gaul 58]

Didn't Graeme Obree walk away from Le Groupement just a couple of months after joining, saying he wouldn't be pushed into drug taking?

 

[mrhender]

Didn't Graeme Obree walk away from Le Groupement just a couple of months after joining, saying he wouldn't be pushed into drug taking?

Just a little side note on Obree..

"The Flying Scotsman" (movie about Obree) is currently available on youtube:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1kp2triSBmE

 

[roundabout]

Re: Re:

chris boardman? quit cycling because of low T, supposedly.

In the year 2000, at the young age of 32, after winning the TdF prologue 3 times, Dauphine prologue several times, ITT world's + several other medals, Romandie prologue, GP des Nations, 2 x Duo Normand, 2 x Pursuit WC's and 2 x hour records - almost all during the unrestricted EPO years....

Uh huh

I see where you're coming from as regards the exceptional results but the 50% rule was in force from 1997; in my mind if Boardman was EPO'd or BB'd to the limit by a doctor surely he would also would be looking to increase his low testosterone to a more 'normal' level thus improving his poor form in GT's etc.
Of course I do accept the possibility that the 'Massive engine/Low T' story may have been a fabrication.

I seem to recall that 1997 was the last year when he had excellent GC results in major 1 week races. He could still do excellent prologues and TTs post 1997, but his 1 week GC form was suddenly gone.

 

[42x16ss]

Didn't Graeme Obree walk away from Le Groupement just a couple of months after joining, saying he wouldn't be pushed into drug taking?

Wasn't it a day or two into his first camp?

 

[movingtarget]

I think Matt Goss has stopped doping ! The mystery of Matt Goss.........I just don't know what to think. Who can categorically say that someone has never doped especially these days when there are no positive test results from the biggest races and the UCI says that this shows that the sport has been cleaned up. Some performances and results say otherwise. Then you have some riders that can stay active most of the season and win throughout. How does one stay in form for a whole season ?

 

[GuyIncognito]

Re:

I think Matt Goss has stopped doping ! The mystery of Matt Goss........

It's no mystery. Zabel has been in the news saying alcohol ruined Goss, just as he was in the news years ago saying alcohol would ruin Goss