Who have been the clean winners over the years?

Apr 6, 2009
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Not many. Maybe some of the young sprinters?

The top guys still ride significantly faster than their equals from the pre epo times, and back then they also used enhancers. Not as potent, but still. And it's not like there have been a revolution in material or training methods.

Even if we imagined all riders would stop instantly, it would still be almost impossible for new genrations to beat the old dogs, since if a rider once have obtained a certain degree of fitness, with the help of enhancers, that rider would have an advantage, due to the body remembering that degree of fitness, and thus would be able to ride faster than their original genetic potential.

A fast sprint however, is very much dependant on genetics, and hard to enhance directly via enhancers. Still of course, you need awesome fitness to reach the last 1 km, where you can make use of that genetic ability.
 
What do you mean by "winners...over the years"? All of history? And I assume you mean completely clean their entire career. Not like David Millar who obviously doped, and I believe is clean today. I also presume you also aren't looking for some of the younger riders on a team like Team Type 1, who I believe are completely whistle clean.

If you only mean "Tour" winners, I'll say Lemond is a very good place to start. I'm convinced Greg was completely clean, and rode in an era of minimal doping, and most doping done at the time was much less effective than blood boosters since about 1991 actually - the year he was as fit as ever, and could barely keep up in the Tour, and in 1992 couldn't even finish.

Staying back during that era, and looking beyond Tour winners, I'm going to guess Andy Hampsten never doped, probably true with all the 7-11 riders.

Christophe Bassons was on Festina and refused to dope. He even refused to play ignorant, look the other way, and allow them to dope him without informing him what it was.

Giles Delion was very health conscious and refused to dope in the 1990s as well. Willy Voet apologized to him and said if everyone were clean, Delion would have won the Tour. He won the Maillot Blanc in 1991. His career ended about three years later when he couldn't keep up with the peloton anymore and he was forced to retire, at the age of 27.

I'm going to guess that after Tom Simpson's awful death there were a lot of clean riders in the late 1960's. Not all, but small dabbling in uppers until cortisone shots got popular. In the 80's we probably saw some of that, and some off-season light steroid use.

Before that, riders in the 40's and 50's, who knows?

The olden riders were all half drunk, and on God knows what, but still tough as nails.
 
Mar 18, 2009
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Cadel and Cunego are two current riders that spring to mind. Both look human and seem to suffer like mere mortals in the mountains.

I'm going to stick my neck out here, but I would be surprised if many of the sprinters doped. So I would have to include Cavendish, Robbie, Stegmans, etc. on the list of current clean riders/winners. In the past, Cipo may have doped (legal and illegal, social and performance enhancing) and obviously Zabel famously confessed to limited use of EPO (but stopped because it did little for him). But I cannot see the benefit of blood enhancers or even testostrone for sprinters when their aims are so different to the climbers, time trialists, and even other power-based sports (ie, 100m sprinters don't need to run a marathon before their sprint, but sprinters in the pro peloton have to cycle 160+ km before they get to show their stuff).
 
Apr 6, 2009
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Zabels EPO confession screams to the sky. EPO doesn't work over night. It takes several month and have to be combined with other substances (not necessarily illegal substances). It's hard to believe Zabel didn't know this. Especially concidering what we know about Telekom today.

Whenever an athlete claims "only" to have used for a very limited time, and only one substance, it's hard not to laugh.
 
Mar 19, 2009
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I'm not getting at aussies. Just professional cyclists in general. Most of them at "at it".
 
Mar 16, 2009
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Greg LeMond? A time trail record that stands for 25 years against advances in equipment, areodynamics and training. not to mention all the dopers. it does not add up.
 
elapid said:
Cadel and Cunego are two current riders that spring to mind. Both look human and seem to suffer like mere mortals in the mountains.
Not that I specifically suspect either of those two, but frankly, I don't think I'd feel very comfortable saying any current rider who's been around for more than 6-7 years has never taken any PED in their entire amateur/pro career.

I guess that's why I think it's rather silly when people start intimating that rider "Z"(usually someone of whom they're not a fan) probably doped back when he/she did whatever race.
 
Apr 9, 2009
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krebs303 said:
Greg LeMond? A time trail record that stands for 25 years against advances in equipment, areodynamics and training. not to mention all the dopers. it does not add up.
VO2 max of 92; aero bars/disc wheel; downhill grade; tailwind. What doesn't add up? When was the last time that exact time trial course was raced?
 
geeker said:
:) I used to like Mancebo precisely because of the way he appeared to suffer in the mountains...
Yeah. And add to this list of great sufferers that therefore couldn't possibly be doping: Bernard Kohl.

Remember at last year's Tour? dude was pulling himself inside out on the climbs, and he practically fell off his bike after Alpe d'Huez.

And he was dirty.
 
Apr 9, 2009
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mr. tibbs said:
Yeah. And add to this list of great sufferers that therefore couldn't possibly be doping: Bernard Kohl.

Remember at last year's Tour? dude was pulling himself inside out on the climbs, and he practically fell off his bike after Alpe d'Huez.

And he was dirty.
Absolutely correct, let us remember what LeMond said: "it never gets any easier, you just get faster." Dope will make you ride faster and if you want to win you still need to push yourself just as hard. All good riders can make themselves suffer; suffering should never be interpreted as a sign of clean riding.
 
Mar 11, 2009
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yea. cadel and chris boardman......when he finished a race he looked like the rest of us.fecked. I be amazed at the men on the podium, 2 mins after 6 hours on the slopes and fresh as a bowl of ricco excuses

i have faith in the youth. keep them away from the dopers turned managers and our sport has a chance. dan martin, nico roche cameron meyer...all just talent and champions of the future.

support the clean riders
http://www.bikepure.org
 
Apr 9, 2009
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Have Sandy Casar been dopingtested this week like Lance Armstrong?

Any infos about Casars test results?
 
Apr 9, 2009
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Also I think there is a very good chance Christian Vande Velde is and has been clean although he's been a domestique almost his entire career. Maybe he'll have a shot at Le Tour this year after a great job last year.
 
Mar 10, 2009
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krebs303 said:
Greg LeMond? A time trail record that stands for 25 years against advances in equipment, areodynamics and training. not to mention all the dopers. it does not add up.
Well he did have lead in his system which could of (did) messed with his "organism" as they say, so some further studies must be done if that was the reason for the extra speed.

Yea, I'm sure you're saying the extra weight should of slowed him down but the super hero ... I mean cycling power could of come from that.

What? Its possible! Just look what cryptonyte can do, if you are raised on a planet with it.
 
Apr 1, 2009
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I ride on EPNO, so I am clean. Ohh wait you said winners, I am a loser, so forget me.
Sastre is a clean rider.
Here is a topic for you "best performance while on drugs" ahh now that is a topic. Sella at the Giro, 3 killer mountain stages and he dominated like a real man (on drugs of course)
 
Mar 19, 2009
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bikepure said:
i have faith in the youth. keep them away from the dopers turned managers and our sport has a chance. dan martin, nico roche cameron meyer...all just talent and champions of the future.

support the clean riders
http://www.bikepure.org
Bikepure is there a place where I can get and independent souce to track the SRM/ or Powertap/ power files of Meyer, Roche,etc. I would also like them to find an independent hospital to run total body hemoglobin tests on them eventually as they get older and more wealthy.

If they are racing clean I do not see why the power files monitoring could be a cost issue. I want to see their power files from week to week. Training to racing. Is there any way they could post them?
 
Greg LeMond? A time trail record that stands for 25 years against advances in equipment, areodynamics and training. not to mention all the dopers. it does not add up.
How about Eddy Merckx hour record holding up for nearly double that long? At most Eddy was on uppers, or perhaps a cortisone shot - micro-beneficial compared to blood boosters (like EPO) of the last 15 years. But even with Merckx, it was on an objective course (track). Greg had all the advantages previously noted: downhill, tailwind, short course, tangible goal within reach (winning the Tour), etc. Greg may put his foot in his mouth and behave like an *** every so often, but I'm convinced he was a clean rider.

It's pretty likely Sastre is clean. He's never been connected to anything I know of. He rides on a team with an anti-doping system. He's about the same rider he's always been, he just got slightly better, while others retired, or got kicked out of the sport for doping, elevating him to the top.

I'd also state flatly that Greame Orbee was clean, as he's quite outspoken against doping and said his refusal to dope is what killed his career.

Agree with Bikepure in that we need to flush out all those from the past who were involved in the "doping years" and keep them from managing and training, and away from younger riders.
 

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