Who is the better Classics cyclist Tadej Pogačar or Mathieu van der Poel?

[Axel Hangleck]

As any bike race in the world, monuments are won mainly on watts/kg and there my friend, no one beats Pogacar. So he is the most talented rider, because he is "freaker" than MVP.

Having a better physiology isn't a talent.......Pogacar is probably the best athlete in pro cycling - but he's not the best cyclist......Pidcock & MvdP are well ahead of him technically - and therefore, better cyclists. Freeriders, Downhillers are probably the best pure cyclists.......just not the best athletically.

 

[Axel Hangleck]

I don't honestly see the debate. Pog can more than compete with Mathieu in MVDP's specialty, MVDP can't begin to touch Pog in Pog's specialty. Tadej is a favorite at any and every classic he lines up to race, no one else can say that.

MvdP's speciality is actually CX - and would likely lap Pog..............

 

[red_flanders]

Having a better physiology isn't a talent.......Pogacar is probably the best athlete in pro cycling - but he's not the best cyclist......Pidcock & MvdP are well ahead of him technically - and therefore, better cyclists. Freeriders, Downhillers are probably the best pure cyclists.......just not the best athletically.

Not to take away from your very good point about bike handling, which of course is a skill and could also be called a talent, but in road racing, having great physiology is literally the main definition of cycling talent.

 

[MariaB]

Pogacar, of course. MVDP hides from LBL and GdL, so how can this be a real comparison?

 

[Hugh Januss]

MvdP's speciality is actually CX - and would likely lap Pog..............

I don't remember where I saw it but it stuck in my mind: Behind the podium one time Wout asked Tadej why he didn't come out and race cross and Tadej laughed and said "why so you guys can lap me?"

 

[Hugh Januss]

Not to take away from your very good point about bike handling, which of course is a skill and could also be called a talent, but in road racing, having great physiology is literally the main definition of cycling talent.

Also as evidenced on Saturday Pogi has really improved his descending in the past couple years.

 

[Oldman]

Also as evidenced on Saturday Pogi has really improved his descending in the past couple years.

He was pushing some large gears doing it, too. Watching the sprint run in he seemed to maintain a much bigger power output than Pidcock who was spinning to set up his sprint. Honestly thought Pidcock was going to accelerate past him but was not up to it even with the perfect lead out.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

Also as evidenced on Saturday Pogi has really improved his descending in the past couple years.

I think Pogacar simply learnt Cipressa and Poggio descents by heart. Doable if one has 1-2 reckons per week.

 

[Barkintheeye]

I truly prefer specialists and that different types of races produce different types of winners. Should Pogacar go on to win all of the Monuments plus WC plus TdF this season it’s firstly a degrading of all of the other riders physical abilities as it’s a pure power play. Not that he’s an unskilled rider or so just that technical skill is not a deciding factor. Secondly should he also mop up some sprint victories then the whole excitement is gone. Final blow would be him winning the WC ITT but fortunately he probably doesn’t care about that.

For decades since the Merckx era we have been blessed with skilled and powerful enough specialists that have made cycling interesting. This… not so much anymore. It’s fascinating but not overly interesting.

 

[AmRacer]

I truly prefer specialists and that different types of races produce different types of winners. Should Pogacar go on to win all of the Monuments plus WC plus TdF this season it’s firstly a degrading of all of the other riders physical abilities as it’s a pure power play. Not that he’s an unskilled rider or so just that technical skill is not a deciding factor. Secondly should he also mop up some sprint victories then the whole excitement is gone. Final blow would be him winning the WC ITT but fortunately he probably doesn’t care about that.

For decades since the Merckx era we have been blessed with skilled and powerful enough specialists that have made cycling interesting. This… not so much anymore. It’s fascinating but not overly interesting.

There's no chance Pogi will win WC ITT when Remco is there.

 

[canina82]

I think Pogacar simply learnt Cipressa and Poggio descents by heart. Doable if one has 1-2 reckons per week.

He learned the recipe to win MSR last year (attack in Cipressa, avoid resting periods after Cipressa which lead to fast descents, sustained pace)
The same happened in 2022 RVV.
Very hard to see MVP now with a chance of beating Pogacar there.
I think Pogacar will also bring a new strategy for PR.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

I think Pogacar will also bring a new strategy for PR.

Avoiding falls (somewhat better skills) and packing up even more power (and mass, maybe he's done it already) is the way. Van der Poel is still #1 favourite for now (because of his cobbles speed and sprint speed) but a lot of things can happen in PR. I think there's a good chance Pogacar wins it at some point (if not this year then within 3 years).

 

[vappa]

There's no chance Pogi will win WC ITT when Remco is there.

I don't see it as impossible, if we get a very hilly route, even more than last year, and he obsessively prepared for it I think there's a chance

 

[Barkintheeye]

There's no chance Pogi will win WC ITT when Remco is there.

I don’t believe that but the ITT WC doesn’t seem to be a priority so hence not very likely that Pog will challenge Remco. But can he do it? Most likely.

 

[canina82]

MvdP's speciality is actually CX - and would likely lap Pog..............

I hear this a lot. No one can convince me Nys is better than Pogacar in cyclocross (a shame Pogacar doesn't race cyclocross right now). Nys is terrible on sand for example and he is still a top3 rider right now.
In RVV, MVP also was "undroppable" until he wasn't...

 

[jono]

He learned the recipe to win MSR last year (attack in Cipressa, avoid resting periods after Cipressa which lead to fast descents, sustained pace)
The same happened in 2022 RVV.
Very hard to see MVP now with a chance of beating Pogacar there.
I think Pogacar will also bring a new strategy for PR.

Van der Poel can win RVV if Pogacar has a bad day. Problem is Pogacar hasn't had a bad day since 2023.

 

[Peter von]

I am going to go Pogi here. He can potentially win all the big classics and only in PR and maybe MSR does MVP have the edge on him, if you are looking over longer period of time.
Of course there is a team discussion here as well. One can argue the MVP is better suited to win MSR because Pogi needs some insanely high quality helpers to put the pressure on to make the race hard enough for him to be able to drop or tire MVP.
But that is also a very good argument for Pogi being the better classics rider: If the race gets hard enough Pogi will win.


Meanwhile races like Fleche, Lombardia and LBL are out of reach for MVP, probably Amstel and San Sebastian too these days.

It is clear to me if MVP finishes his career with a better Classics win list, it's because Pogi also moonlights as a very good stage racer.

But they are both absolute beasts in the classics.