Who would you most like to see go down?

[sheenyp]

So if all these enquiries were to end up with a prison sentence for you just one person who would you most like it to be.

After much deliberation I think McQuaid, I think the UCI really needs sorting out the most in the hope that cycling will be helped by these investigations and a future where drug use and performance enhancement becomes less and less.

 

[ak-zaaf]

Hein Verbruggen

 

[shouldawouldacoulda]

Hein Verbruggen

Nicely stated.

 

[Vonn Brinkman]

So if all these enquiries were to end up with a prison sentence for you just one person who would you most like it to be.

After much deliberation I think McQuaid, I think the UCI really needs sorting out the most in the hope that cycling will be helped by these investigations and a future where drug use and performance enhancement becomes less and less.

Hm. Don't really think I am into these types of questions. A bit strange, don't you agree yourself?

 

[hektoren]

So if all these enquiries were to end up with a prison sentence for you just one person who would you most like it to be.

After much deliberation I think McQuaid, I think the UCI really needs sorting out the most in the hope that cycling will be helped by these investigations and a future where drug use and performance enhancement becomes less and less.

Bruyneel IMHO.

 

[Anonymous]

I'll second that!

Hein Verbruggen

Heinie and Paddy, not down, but up in flames.

 

[L'arriviste]

Um...Verbruggen...Fat Pat...

then Gesink...Hitler...the Nazis...that Godwin guy...

Oops, sorry...

 

[Anonymous]

Maybe just stated in an inflamatory way.

Hm. Don't really think I am into these types of questions. A bit strange, don't you agree yourself?

How about, "Of all the suspected cheats, liars and self serving hypocrits, which one would you most like to see punished?"

 

[Anonymous]

Impossible to answer, personally lance but then mcquad could blame it all on lance, but then mcquad would be great but then lance could blame it all on mcquad, verbruggen, but then lance would blame it on him, bruyneel, but then everyone would blame johann "he made me do it" "we didnt know"

I would lock them all up, in one cell together with 4 carrots and a tube of lubricant

 

[hektoren]

Impossible to answer, personally lance but then mcquad could blame it all on lance, but then mcquad would be great but then lance could blame it all on mcquad, verbruggen, but then lance would blame it on him, bruyneel, but then everyone would blame johann "he made me do it" "we didnt know"

I would lock them all up, in one cell together with 4 carrots and a tube of lubricant

Oh, my! I sense a vicious mind at work! The 4 carrots is a nice touch, Dim, but howz 3 carrots for that bunch??? Perpetual insatisfaction is more along the lines of my imagination.

BTW. do you know what they used the green grass on carrots for, during WWII?

 

[Chuffy]

Impossible to answer, personally lance but then mcquad could blame it all on lance, but then mcquad would be great but then lance could blame it all on mcquad, verbruggen, but then lance would blame it on him, bruyneel, but then everyone would blame johann "he made me do it" "we didnt know"

I would lock them all up, in one cell together with 4 carrots and a tube of lubricant spiked with wasabi

Nasty mind? Me? Heavens no...}

 

[bianchigirl]

I say McQuaid/verbruggen - the buck has to stop with their corruption & mishandling of the sport over the last 20 years.

Time for a vote of no confidence in the UCI leader at the very least

 

[Anonymous]

Bruyneel IMHO.

+1................

 

[9000ft]

No one. I don't need to see anyone "go down. To me what the OP suggests is akin to vengeance and personal vendetta. I have no use for either. Athletes use PEDs because the stakes and rewards are so high for being at the top of their fields. Why are the rewards so high? Because the fans by in large demand super human performance and only winning counts.

IMO athletes who use PEDs are not evil. They are people who most likely love their sport who are under a lot of pressure, both internally and externally to show results. (by externally, I don't just mean coaches, managers or doctors, I also mean press, sponsors and fans). PEDs are widely available and have been common for generations. It's easy for "fans" to be highly judgemental when they're not the ones who's livelihood and life long passion/ambition hangs in the balance

Athletes who dope are only responding to the marketplace. Follow the money. What do you get paid for being a winner vs being anonymous Where does the money come from? Ultimately the fans. Don't believe me? Read though the CN and other cycling forums. Racers who don't win are consistently referred to with disdain, called "wheel suckers" , slow, fat, etc by many if not most posters. Look at Tommy D - the guy is a great racer, undoubtedly deserving to be among the elite, but mention his name here and most (not all) posters will heap scorn and ridicule upon him because he hasn't won big time races or "lived up to his potential." I've said this before and I still believe it, if you go by the internet communities, you'd have to assume that the only thing worse than a doper is someone who rides like they're clean.

If someone is caught either red handed or through testing or through hard provable evidence (not hearsay, not innuendo, not circumstantial evidence) then they should pay whatever the consequences that due process prescribes. (BTW, if found guilty they are found guilty, it should make no difference if they confess or deny, are jerks or saints, are stars or off the back). I'm 100% for the best possible anti doping procedures administered in a fair and professional manner with tough penalties. I'm 100% against witch hunts, poor science, and trials conducted by press leaks and tell all books.

I'd love to see pro sports including cycling be clean, but as long as the rewards for success are so great I doubt we'll see that any time soon.

 

[Anonymous]

IMO athletes who use PEDs are not evil. They are people who most likely love their sport who are under a lot of pressure, both internally and externally to show results.

You really think lance doped because of pressure, you really think he was forced into winning seven tours and repeatedly denying doping, you really think he was forced into hiding the fact that he got cancer through doping.

Lance loves on thing, and its not the sport, its Lance. His selfishness both in the sport and his personal life proves that.

 

[dbrower]

Hein Verbruggen

Which reminds me, I wonder when anyone is going to dig around real estate purchased near the sites of future olympics by people in the "movement" before selection announcements are made.

-dB

 

[Kennf1]

No one. I don't need to see anyone "go down. To me what the OP suggests is akin to vengeance and personal vendetta. I have no use for either. Athletes use PEDs because the stakes and rewards are so high for being at the top of their fields. Why are the rewards so high? Because the fans by in large demand super human performance and only winning counts.

* * *
.

I understand your point about not villifying the athletes. However, most of the posts in this thread are directed at the managers or administrators(Verbruggen, Bruyneel, etc.) These are guys who are either actively promoting fraud or covering it up, all the while lining their pockets. Armstrong is in a different category from the rank and file athletes because of the enormous amount of money made off the sport.

To add to "the list," I would suggest that any team or outside "doctor" aiding in doping should be forced to work in a free public clinic for the rest of his professional career.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

No one. I don't need to see anyone "go down. To me what the OP suggests is akin to vengeance and personal vendetta. I have no use for either. Athletes use PEDs because the stakes and rewards are so high for being at the top of their fields. Why are the rewards so high? Because the fans by in large demand super human performance and only winning counts.

IMO athletes who use PEDs are not evil. They are people who most likely love their sport who are under a lot of pressure, both internally and externally to show results. (by externally, I don't just mean coaches, managers or doctors, I also mean press, sponsors and fans). PEDs are widely available and have been common for generations. It's easy for "fans" to be highly judgemental when they're not the ones who's livelihood and life long passion/ambition hangs in the balance

Athletes who dope are only responding to the marketplace. Follow the money. What do you get paid for being a winner vs being anonymous Where does the money come from? Ultimately the fans. Don't believe me? Read though the CN and other cycling forums. Racers who don't win are consistently referred to with disdain, called "wheel suckers" , slow, fat, etc by many if not most posters. Look at Tommy D - the guy is a great racer, undoubtedly deserving to be among the elite, but mention his name here and most (not all) posters will heap scorn and ridicule upon him because he hasn't won big time races or "lived up to his potential." I've said this before and I still believe it, if you go by the internet communities, you'd have to assume that the only thing worse than a doper is someone who rides like they're clean.

If someone is caught either red handed or through testing or through hard provable evidence (not hearsay, not innuendo, not circumstantial evidence) then they should pay whatever the consequences that due process prescribes. (BTW, if found guilty they are found guilty, it should make no difference if they confess or deny, are jerks or saints, are stars or off the back). I'm 100% for the best possible anti doping procedures administered in a fair and professional manner with tough penalties. I'm 100% against witch hunts, poor science, and trials conducted by press leaks and tell all books.

I'd love to see pro sports including cycling be clean, but as long as the rewards for success are so great I doubt we'll see that any time soon.

You have straight away missed the point of why most people enjoy sports - they expect the performance to be real and within human capabilities - not a chemistry experiment.

I would suggest going to an underage race - there are still winners and losers, great and tragic stories.
The only difference between that and those who use PEDs is that they exclude most of the athletes that don't wish to dope.

Which is why I would hope that at the end of all these investigations that there is a change in how sports are administered, in particular to having testing completely independent of the sporting authorities.

(As for Tommy D. - I like him, but his problems are in his head, not his legs)

 

[Anonymous]

I'd like to see the Omerta go down. Dead and burried.

 

[jbenedict]

You really think lance doped because of pressure, you really think he was forced into winning seven tours and repeatedly denying doping, you really think he was forced into hiding the fact that he got cancer through doping.

Lance loves on thing, and its not the sport, its Lance. His selfishness both in the sport and his personal life proves that.

Winners are selfish. That's how they win. Cavendish isn't giving stages to to the other sprinters, is he????? Selfish ******* keeps taking all them for himself.

 

[jbenedict]

You have straight away missed the point of why most people enjoy sports - they expect the performance to be real and within human capabilities - not a chemistry experiment.

I would suggest going to an underage race - there are still winners and losers, great and tragic stories.
The only difference between that and those who use PEDs is that they exclude most of the athletes that don't wish to dope.

Which is why I would hope that at the end of all these investigations that there is a change in how sports are administered, in particular to having testing completely independent of the sporting authorities.

(As for Tommy D. - I like him, but his problems are in his head, not his legs)

When I was racing Cat 5, kids cheated to WIN a bike race. It wasn't a gentleman's game.

 

[jbenedict]

Floyd Landis. He's looking squeeky clean all of a sudden. Almost hero like He's quite the snake. By the way, when is he going to pay back all that money he cheated people out of with his Fairness Fund? If Floyd can hide behind any whistleblower law for immunity, then anyone can walk on the charges. Fair is fair.

 

[Lajeretta4Ever]

George Hincapie. Got to send messages to loyal lieutenants that the omerta is not an option.

 

[Mambo95]

It won't happen, but Dr Ferrari for me.

Drug users I can forgive and understand, but drug dealers, like Ferrari, are much worse to me. They're the guys who should be doing jail time.

 

[theswordsman]

No one. I don't need to see anyone "go down. To me what the OP suggests is akin to vengeance and personal vendetta.

Crikey. "Go down" is vernacular and could apply to things from a game of Connect Four "you're going down!" to prison time or being exposed for who you really are.

I'm pretty sure neither Merriam or Webster would approve of your use of the word "vendetta".

Definition of VENDETTA
1
: blood feud
2
: an often prolonged series of retaliatory, vengeful, or hostile acts or exchange of such acts

or vengeance:

ven·geance
noun \ˈven-jən(t)s\
Definition of VENGEANCE
: punishment inflicted in retaliation for an injury or offense : retribution

Unlike you, most of the people who post to The Clinic are actually against doping in cycling, no matter who is guilty. I spent a lot of time excited the past day and a half because of Pierre Bordry, a brave stand by Deakin University, and a Betsy Andreu interview.

I'm not involved in a blood feud with anyone. I'm not looking for retribution. I used to be an Armstrong fan, once got twitter replies from Bruyneel, Chef Duffy and Taylor Phinney, Levi's brother, etc.

A lot of the guys on my most wanted list are guys I rooted for in the past. I don't want them to "go down" for any harm they've done me, I want them to go down because I'm convinced they cheated. There's a big problem in the sport. This year we learned from Frei and Landis that the Biological Passport system doesn't work. The UCI wants the sport to have the illusion of being clean. The CEO of US Cycling is in the news as saying that testing works and that the headlines about doping are bad for the sport.

There are people who want that to change. I used to avoid the Clinic. The night that the Wall Street Journal article about Landis came out, I came here and stayed up all night. It was like a New Year's Eve celebration (with some gate crashers). I don't care who the next doper is to get busted. But I'll be glad when it happens.

On topic, I want HV, Pat, and anyone else involved from the UCI or labs to get out so things can start turning around. If there's someone in the USADA or US Cycling involved in some way, out they go.

LA and JB are obvious choices - guys who gained their fame and millions because of careers full of lies, and hurt a lot of innocent people in the process.

Also on my hot list are the doctors or whoever is doing the science discovering new substances, coming up with plans for usage and hiding usage.