Why are Belgians so bad at GTs lately?

[CasperVg]

Since 1991, only 1 Belgian has been in the Top 10 at the Tour
2010: JvdB (4th)

Since 1991, only 2 Belgians have been in the Top 10 in the Giro
2002: Rik Verbrugge (9th)
2008: JvdB (7th)

Since 1991, only 2 Belgians have been in the Top 10 in the Vuelta
2011: Monfort (6th) and JvdB (8th)

Why are Belgians so bad at GT's? For a cycling country with quite a bit of history, one would expect more at least a few more top 10 places. You could say it's because of the flat lands around here, but then again the Netherlands are even flatter, yet have much more GT riders and talents.

So, why are Belgians so bad at GTs lately?

 

[42x16ss]

Because they have been focusing on the classics? Have a look at how they have been doing there, especially the monuments.

 

[rghysens]

Since 1991, only 3 Belgian has been in the Top 10 at the Tour
1993: Bruyneel (7th)
1998: A.Merckx (10th)
2010: JvdB (4th)


Since 1991, only 2 Belgians have been in the Top 10 in the Giro
2002: Rik Verbrugge (9th)
2008: JvdB (7th)

Since 1991, only 3 Belgians have been in the Top 10 in the Vuelta
1995: Bruyneel (3rd)
2011: Monfort (6th) and JvdB (8th)

Why are Belgians so bad at GT's? For a cycling country with quite a bit of history, one would expect more at least a few more top 10 places. You could say it's because of the flat lands around here, but then again the Netherlands are even flatter, yet have much more GT riders and talents.

So, why are Belgians so bad at GTs lately?

Mainly because of a focus on the flemish classics (starting from an early age, there should be much more "climbing" races in te Ardennes ), and also clinic related matters.

 

[18-Valve. (pithy)]

and also clinic related matters.

Ah, the old "we're clean and they're not!" Yes, I'm sure that must be it.

Take your BS to the Clinic.

 

[Kazistuta]

Belgians love their classics, that's why.

At least you have young guys like Sean De Bie and Tim Wellens coming up - they both seem like GC guys.

Also J. Vanendert & De Gendt should be able to top10 in a GC in two years.

 

[Andre.J]

I agree, they train mostly for one day races. I was hoping that Seeldrayers would become a good hope for the GT's but Im still waiting. Im also hoping for riders like Venendert and Bakelants to come through. But who knows?

 

[Der Effe]

and also clinic related matters.

What a pathetic insinuation.

 

[rghysens]

Ah, the old "we're clean and they're not!" Yes, I'm sure that must be it.

Take your BS to the Clinic.

I didn't mean that Belgians were clean. Not at all...
But untill a few years ago many Belgian cyclist rather went to a shady soigneur or veterinarian than to a hematologist when they want to dope.
But this can't be discussed at this subforum.

In addition to the focus on classics, I might add the "focus on winning". In Belgium a stage victory and 57th place on GC is revered higher than a 7th palce on GC and no stage victory.

 

[18-Valve. (pithy)]

I didn't mean that Belgians were clean. Not at all...
But untill a few years ago many Belgian cyclist rather went to a shady soigneur or veterinarian than to a hematologist when they want to dope.
But this can't be discussed at this subforum.

In addition to the focus on classics, I might add the "focus on winning". In Belgium a stage victory and 57th place on GC is revered higher than a 7th palce on GC and no stage victory.

That's mostly in cyclo-cross. "Many" Belgian road cyclists, sure, but not the top guys. It's irrelevant to the question at hand.

It's refreshing to see Van Den Broeck and De Gendt go against the grain and go for GC results in GTs, though. The latter is a huge talent, IMO. He just has to believe in himself, which was an issue before. He's going well at the moment, though.

 

[CasperVg]

Because they have been focusing on the classics? Have a look at how they have been doing there, especially the monuments.

I know that, I just find it a shame that I can't cheer for fellow Belgians during the GC fights in GTs these days. Sure JvdB is decent, but he's not a winner and only really goes for it in the Tour. Take this year's Giro for example, pretty much all the Belgians riding there are just for stagewins/helpers. The only one that has some possibility on a Top 10/20 is De Gendt maybe.

Strange, for some reason cqranking doesn't list Johan Bruyneels results, that's why I missed him in.

 

[theyoungest]

Belgians just have a real culture around the classics, nobody else has that. If you take a Dutchie like me, for example, I don't remember ever watching the Tour of Flanders as a young kid. Whereas I did watch entire stages of the Tour de France.

It's probably also a result of how cycling is approached in the youth categories... we seem to produce only stage racers, you seem to produce only classics riders. It can't be just the physical difference between Dutch and Belgians (if there is any).

 

[El Pistolero]

Belgians just have a real culture around the classics, nobody else has that. If you take a Dutchie like me, for example, I don't remember ever watching the Tour of Flanders as a young kid. Whereas I did watch entire stages of the Tour de France.

It's probably also a result of how cycling is approached in the youth categories... we seem to produce only stage racers, you seem to produce only classics riders. It can't be just the physical difference between Dutch and Belgians (if there is any).

Around 1 million Dutch people watched Paris-Roubaix actually versus 1.3 million Belgians(on Sporza, RTBF not counted). And there are quite a few Dutchies who watch Sporza over NOS. Obviously it's more popular in Belgium, but Paris-Roubaix is also pretty popular in the Netherlands.

Actually I don't agree with the topic starter as well. We have been bad few years ago, but now it's definitely improving with guys like Van den Broeck, Jelle Vanendert and I'm looking forward to see Thomas De Gendt giving the GC of the Vuelta a serious try(like he said he would).

 

[theyoungest]

I think if you put on a snooker match on the channel and the time slot Roubaix is on, people will still watch, but anyway: you missed my point, as usual. It's not ingrained in our culture. The Tour de France is, somewhat.

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

Around 1 million Dutch people watched Paris-Roubaix actually versus 1.3 million Belgians(on Sporza, RTBF not counted). And there are quite a few Dutchies who watch Sporza over NOS. Obviously it's more popular in Belgium, but Paris-Roubaix is also pretty popular in the Netherlands.

Actually I don't agree with the topic starter as well. We have been bad few years ago, but now it's definitely improving with guys like Van den Broeck, Jelle Vanendert and I'm looking forward to see Thomas De Gendt giving the GC of the Vuelta a serious try(like he said he would).

Hmm. Do you really think a guy like Vanendert is consistent enough to be a GC contender? Same goes for the De Gendt. They strike me as very irregular...
As for Bakelants, I don't see a GT prospect in him, more ardennais classics and small tours.

Atm I can only see Van den Broeck and then ofcourse Monfort for Vuelta. Seeldraeyers has the potential to do well, we saw at young age, but so far he is 'hanging'.

I do see a lot of ardennais talent in Belgium (much more than the 90-ties anyway).. Vanendert, Hermans, Bakelants, Serry, and many many more I forget now (there are at least 10 of them i swear)

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

vanendert is ridiuclous. his itt sucks harder then gadrets. de gendt will also never be a stable gt contender

 

[El Pistolero]

Hmm. Do you really think a guy like Vanendert is consistent enough to be a GC contender? Same goes for the De Gendt. They strike me as very irregular...
As for Bakelants, I don't see a GT prospect in him, more ardennais classics and small tours.

Atm I can only see Van den Broeck and then ofcourse Monfort for Vuelta. Seeldraeyers has the potential to do well, we saw at young age, but so far he is 'hanging'.

I do see a lot of ardennais talent in Belgium (much more than the 90-ties anyway).. Vanendert, Hermans, Bakelants, Serry, and many many more I forget now (there are at least 10 of them i swear)

Sean de Bie looks like a talent for the ardennais.

I think Vanendert can be consistent enough, the problem is he'll always be crappy in time trials, so he'll be nowhere in the GC this year. Don't forget Vanendert had to work a lot for Gilbert in the first 2 weeks of the Tour. The only stage he really bonked hard was the Alpe Dhuez stage.

As for Thomas De Gendt, we'll discover soon enough.

 

[Frosty]

That's mostly in cyclo-cross. "Many" Belgian road cyclists, sure, but not the top guys. It's irrelevant to the question at hand.

It's refreshing to see Van Den Broeck and De Gendt go against the grain and go for GC results in GTs, though. The latter is a huge talent, IMO. He just has to believe in himself, which was an issue before. He's going well at the moment, though.

Had wondered about the possibilities of him finishing quite high in the Giro. He performed well at the end of the Tour last year and is 9-1 to finish in the top 10. Agree with him being a bit unstable though. Could imagine him generally doing well but having a shocker on one day.

 

[Panda Claws]

Cycling has gotten more international.

I am just saying random numbers to show my point

In 1970 40% of cyclists were Belgian

In 2000 15% of cyclists were Belgian


So there is a lot more concurrence and since Belgium doesn't have mountains it is only normal we suck at it. It is the same with Spainards and cobbles.

 

[Spine Concept]

Cycling has gotten more international.

I am just saying random numbers to show my point

In 1970 40% of cyclists were Belgian

In 2000 15% of cyclists were Belgian


So there is a lot more concurrence and since Belgium doesn't have mountains it is only normal we suck at it. It is the same with Spainards and cobbles.

Flecha says hello.

 

[Panda Claws]

Flecha says hello.

So does Van Den Broeck. There are always expections.

 

[maxmartin]

And they (just like dutch riders) are obsessed with tour, if Jvdb try to focus on giro or vuelta, the result might be different.

Since 1991, only 1 Belgian has been in the Top 10 at the Tour
2010: JvdB (4th)

Since 1991, only 2 Belgians have been in the Top 10 in the Giro
2002: Rik Verbrugge (9th)
2008: JvdB (7th)

Since 1991, only 2 Belgians have been in the Top 10 in the Vuelta
2011: Monfort (6th) and JvdB (8th)

Why are Belgians so bad at GT's? For a cycling country with quite a bit of history, one would expect more at least a few more top 10 places. You could say it's because of the flat lands around here, but then again the Netherlands are even flatter, yet have much more GT riders and talents.

So, why are Belgians so bad at GTs lately?

 

[gustienordic]

And they (just like dutch riders) are obsessed with tour, if Jvdb try to focus on giro or vuelta, the result might be different.

I think this is a problem across the whole sport... too much emphasis on the Tour. The Giro is usually way more fun to watch.

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

I think this is a problem across the whole sport... too much emphasis on the Tour. The Giro is usually way more fun to watch.

the thing is, if you say you focus on the giro or vuelta than they might find that ok as young rider in the netherlands. But if he's established/had a GT result, and says he focus on the Giro or Vuelta again, you're considered to have no ambition or do that because you're too weak for the Tour. That's how people think

 

[Spine Concept]

So does Van Den Broeck. There are always expections.

No kidding. I thought the emoticon sticking it's tongue out might have tipped you off that I was joking.

 

[Caruut]

the thing is, if you say you focus on the giro or vuelta than they might find that ok as young rider in the netherlands. But if he's established/had a GT result, and says he focus on the Giro or Vuelta again, you're considered to have no ambition or do that because you're too weak for the Tour. That's how people think

That's because it's partially true; the strongest (apart from the Italians, on occasion) gravitate towards the Tour. The mistake is in thinking that there is some kind of shame about being too weak to win the Tour. Each year, only 3 or 4 men have any real chance of winning it. It isn't always clear who these three are at the start, but looking back, there are only 1 or two riders than you can look at and say "if only he'd done that differently, he might have won".

In my opinion, there's no shame in looking at yourself and saying "I'm not quite good enough for that, what can I be the best in?". To me, it shows more ambition to say "I'm going to go to the Vuelta and give it a proper shot at winning it" than to say "I'm going to go to the Tour, hide in the bunch for 2 weeks then get dragged up the mountains by the proper contender who is furthest back each day".