Why are British cyclists so much better than Australian cyclists 2

[thehog]

I think most of all there is a close link between doping and Australian success in cycling. Most of all on the track. It’s well known Charlie Walsh's group and at the AIS there was organised doping. Martin Vinnecombe, Stephen Pate and Gary Neiwand spring to mind. Once the UCI began to get on top of the doping problem then the results began to drop away. We are seeing the same in Australian swimming now.

 

[auscyclefan94]

I think most of all there is a close link between doping and Australian success in cycling. Most of all on the track. It’s well known Charlie Walsh's group and at the AIS there was organised doping. Martin Vinnecombe, Stephen Pate and Gary Neiwand spring to mind. Once the UCI began to get on top of the doping problem then the results began to drop away. We are seeing the same in Australian swimming now.

Drawing a long bow there don't you think! You could make that sweeping staement for any country when they have a successful period of riders.

 

[thehog]

Drawing a long bow there don't you think! You could make that sweeping staement for any country when they have a successful period of riders.

However this thread is talking about why British cyclists are better than Australian cyclists. Your post should be deleted as it’s not in context – we are not talking about other countries.

Australian cyclists during the late 80's to mid 90's had a similar system to that of East Germany in the 80's. Period. End of story. To think the tax payer was funding organised doping. Sir Malcolm Fraser would drop his trousers (again) if he knew what went on at the AIS.

 

[auscyclefan94]

However this thread is talking about why British cyclists are better than Australian cyclists. Your post should be deleted as it’s not in context – we are not talking about other countries.

Australian cyclists during the late 80's to mid 90's had a similar system to that of East Germany in the 80's. Period. End of story. To think the tax payer was funding organised doping. Sir Malcolm Fraser would drop his trousers (again) if he knew what went on at the AIS.

Yor messages should be deleted then as you brought the topic of doping up which has nothing to do with the topic. That goes to the clinic

 

[beroepsrenner]

I think most of all there is a close link between doping and Australian success in cycling. Most of all on the track. It’s well known Charlie Walsh's group and at the AIS there was organised doping. Martin Vinnecombe, Stephen Pate and Gary Neiwand spring to mind. Once the UCI began to get on top of the doping problem then the results began to drop away. We are seeing the same in Australian swimming now.

"Well known" by who?
Mr hog, you need to be very careful making assumptions based on rumour and heresay. Although not part of the AIS system myself, I am close to many of the riders who went through the Charlie Walsh era. If you are going to make these kind of accusations you need to be quoting facts not making assumptions. Vinnecombe was always a maverick who did his own thing pretty much. Steven Pate was never a part of the Charlie Walsh track program and Niewand acted outside the system as well. If I was aware of systematic doping being part of the AIS programme I would be one of the first to verify it. In the mean time I suggest you pull your head in as most of your posts are neither intelligent or funny.

 

[auscyclefan94]

"Well known" by who?
Mr hog, you need to be very careful making assumptions based on rumour and heresay. Although not part of the AIS system myself, I am close to many of the riders who went through the Charlie Walsh era. If you are going to make these kind of accusations you need to be quoting facts not making assumptions. Vinnecombe was always a maverick who did his own thing pretty much. Steven Pate was never a part of the Charlie Walsh track program and Niewand acted outside the system as well. If I was aware of systematic doping being part of the AIS programme I would be one of the first to verify it. In the mean time I suggest you pull your head in as most of your posts are neither intelligent or funny.

+1
To make drastic calls like that you have to have concrete evidence.

 

[thehog]

Yor messages should be deleted then as you brought the topic of doping up which has nothing to do with the topic. That goes to the clinic

How would it be moved to the clinic if it should be deleted? The only thing that needs to be deleted is your stupidity along with your clearly biased views. Leave this discussion to those in he know. ie stay out of responding you're making a fool of yourself.

 

[thehog]

"Well known" by who?
Mr hog, you need to be very careful making assumptions based on rumour and heresay. Although not part of the AIS system myself, I am close to many of the riders who went through the Charlie Walsh era. (

You serious? Put up or shut up. The Charlie Walsh era was ingrained in drug abuse. Just take a look at the freak shows that came out of that programme. Gary Neiwand for one. The blokes idea of foreplay is beating up his ex-wife. Stephen Pate, drunkard and bar-room fighter and Vinniecombe who had a penchant for exposing himself. The list goes on. The drugs made all those boys go crazy. I should know - I had to get them out of it.

 

[auscyclefan94]

How would it be moved to the clinic if it should be deleted? The only thing that needs to be deleted is your stupidity along with your clearly biased views. Leave this discussion to those in he know. ie stay out of responding you're making a fool of yourself.

Mate... your making the stupid comments and making ridicoulous conspiracy theories up about situations you really have no evidence or knowledge about. Provide some concrete evidence and i might believe you. Maybe you should leave instead of making bs rumours about doping which have no solid evidence whatsoever. You are the real fool and should leave the forum and leave to the people in the know who come out with facts not rumours (like you).

 

[elapid]

The Hog is just an idiotic troll. Don't take his bait and he'll either go away or be happy listening to his own drivel.

 

[beroepsrenner]

You serious? Put up or shut up. The Charlie Walsh era was ingrained in drug abuse. Just take a look at the freak shows that came out of that programme. Gary Neiwand for one. The blokes idea of foreplay is beating up his ex-wife. Stephen Pate, drunkard and bar-room fighter and Vinniecombe who had a penchant for exposing himself. The list goes on. The drugs made all those boys go crazy. I should know - I had to get them out of it.

Ok I think I know who you are now and if i am right you also know me. That puts this whole discussion in a different light and it does not belong on this thread. I am an aquaintance of one of the guys listed and have gone through a similar hell in my own life for the same reasons. If you want to start a new thread in the clinic I would be happy to share my reasoning.

 

[53 x 11]

Ok I think I know who you are now and if i am right you also know me. That puts this whole discussion in a different light and it does not belong on this thread. I am an aquaintance of one of the guys listed and have gone through a similar hell in my own life for the same reasons. If you want to start a new thread in the clinic I would be happy to share my reasoning.

Sorry if I havn't been taking this thread very seriously (well, not really). However if this is something that you and Hog can actually discus I am sure that there would be may people who are interested, myself included.
I have had some small experience (not my own) with what you have been talking about.

Or Hog could just be the Troll that I hought he was.

 

[auscyclefan94]

Sorry if I havn't been taking this thread very seriously (well, not really). However if this is something that you and Hog can actually discus I am sure that there would be may people who are interested, myself included.
I have had some small experience (not my own) with what you have been talking about.

Or Hog could just be the Troll that I hought he was.

You thought right... he's a troll or one of them.

 

[Krebs cycle]

Why are British cyclists so much better than Australian cyclists

.....because all of the high performance coaches, managers and sport scientists are Australian?

 

[180mmCrank]

.....because all of the high performance coaches, managers and sport scientists are Australian?

Touche'

Although many of them are going home now

 

[Ozzie2]

You thought right... he's a troll or one of them.

Being from Adelaide myself I too have been fortunate enough to spend time with some of the people in the system also.

Heck, Live near Norton Summit and they ride past you every day and have coffee at the same cafe. Its still a small town.

I even went to Uni with a few, and made some friends/ acquaintances along the way

From what I learned, and I was fortunate enough to have some very frank conversations under the influence of the long lunch residue, we were no more or less, better or worse, cleaner or dirtier, than anyone else- and so no, we weren’t squeaky clean.

To come in and name people and use their personal issues – which are very real and in some cases sad (can I add there are 3 sides to every story too) does not help or relate to the thread

Having suffered through a miserable ashes series I am lamenting the increase in performance of british sport vs Aussies.

What is clear is that they did throw massive resources to the sports system years back and are seeing the fruits

Better technology makes a difference too, and yes, Charlie walsh was a great talent for them.

To suggest Charlie or Flynnie came in with a suitcase of designer chemicals is not reflective of their overall successes and underscores the work and resources put in by many. It is borderline libel, and also ignores the reality of the level playing field out there.

I look forward to the AIS academy getting some resources- when I knew them (10-

15yrs ago) these kids earned squat and did it on a smelly oil rag on old bikes (although personally I favour training on older heavier bikes for road racing long story)

I look forward to an aussie doing what Mark Cavendish is doing, or an Aussie being a real GC contender. Sadly, I will know what that also means, but I am under no illusion what cyclists choose to do and have to do, and vaguely how they do it.

As the song goes, “if we don’t win, I don’t care- as long as we beat New Zealand”

 

[beroepsrenner]

While this thread was on the pro racing forum it began as a light hearted stoush between aussies and brits but then someone decided to drag in doping.
Comments that person made hit a raw nerve with me. Although its public knowledge that the guys he named all failed dope tests, It dont think its right to discuss their private issues on a public forum especially when some of them are still battling their problems. While PEDs were available to AIS scholarship holders just as readily as to any other cyclist, to insinuate that it was systematic within the institute and to announce it under annonimity on this forum is inapropriate and libalous. If someone has solid evidence of it occuring then it should be directed through more appropriate channels.

 

[blackcat]

While this thread was on the pro racing forum it began as a light hearted stoush between aussies and brits but then someone decided to drag in doping.
Comments that person made hit a raw nerve with me. Although its public knowledge that the guys he named all failed dope tests, It dont think its right to discuss their private issues on a public forum especially when some of them are still battling their problems. While PEDs were available to AIS scholarship holders just as readily as to any other cyclist, to insinuate that it was systematic within the institute and to announce it under annonimity on this forum is inapropriate and libalous. If someone has solid evidence of it occuring then it should be directed through more appropriate channels.

agree with most, 'cept your spelling

but there gets to a point, where the culture in PED use is so prevalent, and the coaches see it, and all the athletes share sources, networks and doctors, well... then it is de facto systematic. Not saying it was or was not this way at AIS, dont know it.

The Saunier Duval doc talked about a new doping product coming out of the UK earlier this season. This accords with some noise I am hearing through some independent contacts.

 

[beroepsrenner]

agree with most, 'cept your spelling

but their gets to a point, where the culture in PED use is so prevalent, and the coaches see it, and all the athletes share sources, networks and doctors, well... then it is de facto systematic. Not saying it was or was not this way at AIS, dont know it.

The Saunier Duval doc talked about a new doping product coming out of the UK earlier this season. This accords with some noise I am hearing through some independent contacts.

Not here to win prizes for spelling! Besides, I was out training when I should have been in school.

I have no problem with the points you make. I objected to peoples private lives being discussed on this forum.

 

[Ferminal]

I think most of all there is a close link between doping and Australian success in cycling. Most of all on the track. It’s well known Charlie Walsh's group and at the AIS there was organised doping. Martin Vinnecombe, Stephen Pate and Gary Neiwand spring to mind. Once the UCI began to get on top of the doping problem then the results began to drop away. We are seeing the same in Australian swimming now.

Then what must UK cyclists be on to dominate the last few years on the track?

Let's not confuse donkeys with horses...