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SirLes said:Compare ANC Halford's assault on the TdF in 1987 with what Sky are doing now!
samerics said:if anyone has seen Bradley up close then you'll realise the transformation. I saw him recently in a music shop in Manchester, in November when he's not at Tour weight, and he is like a stick! I was amazed to see how thin he is, ie narrow in the upper body, not just low fat content. The guys shape changed to become a Tour rider, no question. if anyone has any proof that he dopes then fine, let's see it, otherwise just accept that he made a choice to become a different kind of rider by losing upper body weight. And I'm not a fan boy, just stating the obvious![]()
samerics said:if anyone has seen Bradley up close then you'll realise the transformation. I saw him recently in a music shop in Manchester, in November when he's not at Tour weight, and he is like a stick! I was amazed to see how thin he is, ie narrow in the upper body, not just low fat content. The guys shape changed to become a Tour rider, no question. if anyone has any proof that he dopes then fine, let's see it, otherwise just accept that he made a choice to become a different kind of rider by losing upper body weight. And I'm not a fan boy, just stating the obvious![]()
B_Ugli said:Its not rocket science that if you drop a few pounds you will go up hill faster but that needs to be tempered with the fact that if you dont put enough fuel into your engine you can easily end up depleted. This is a fact that BW has alluded to in the past and to be fair to him striking that balance has paid its rewards as has the altitude training he does.
When you think of the amount of track guys that have transferred to the road - De Wilde, Mc Gee, Ekimov they do have big engines thats for sure.
Until such time as proved otherwise I think you have to give these chaps the benefit of the doubt I dont say this as I am a Brit but I think you have to draw a line in the sand (as the recent thread on Boardman illustrated).
B_Ugli said:Its not rocket science that if you drop a few pounds you will go up hill faster but that needs to be tempered with the fact that if you dont put enough fuel into your engine you can easily end up depleted. This is a fact that BW has alluded to in the past and to be fair to him striking that balance has paid its rewards as has the altitude training he does.
When you think of the amount of track guys that have transferred to the road - De Wilde, Mc Gee, Ekimov they do have big engines thats for sure.
Until such time as proved otherwise I think you have to give these chaps the benefit of the doubt I dont say this as I am a Brit but I think you have to draw a line in the sand (as the recent thread on Boardman illustrated).
pmcg76 said:Here is the catch, for anyone who followed the sport pre-Festina, the riders were always given the benefit of the doubt, a lot of guys on here would have loved the EPO 90s as there very few positive tests and very few questions asked and little in the way of suspicion regardless of the sudden transformations and huge jumps in performance which were incredibly common at the time. Average performer turned superstar, no questions asked sir.
As someone who started following cycling in 1989, I can pretty much dismiss everything I witnessed in the 90s as fantasy as none of it was real. The problem is the fantasy didnt stop with Festina, it continued well on into the 00s. Now we are back to the stage where people want fans to give riders the benefit of the doubt again like back in the 90s. Just ignore what happened in the past and take a leap of blind faith for the current generation despite the fact that there are new superdrugs like TG 5000 or whatever now in circulation.
Whilst on one hand I genuinely believe things have improved and I dont believe in tarring everyone, I dont see any reason why anyone should stop questioning sudden transformations or huge jumps in preformance just because it offends a few fanboy posters who are mostly relative newcomers to the sport. The pros can moan all they want but it is themselves, their team-mates, DSs etc who have put themselves in that situation. We are supposed to learn from history and what has the history of cycling taught us?
B_Ugli said:Its not rocket science that if you drop a few pounds you will go up hill faster but that needs to be tempered with the fact that if you dont put enough fuel into your engine you can easily end up depleted. This is a fact that BW has alluded to in the past and to be fair to him striking that balance has paid its rewards as has the altitude training he does.
When you think of the amount of track guys that have transferred to the road - De Wilde, Mc Gee, Ekimov they do have big engines thats for sure.
Until such time as proved otherwise I think you have to give these chaps the benefit of the doubt I dont say this as I am a Brit but I think you have to draw a line in the sand (as the recent thread on Boardman illustrated).
B_Ugli said:So am I a fanboy poster who is a newcomer to the sport or are you saying that my post is politically correct so as to appeal to such individuals? In any event I do agree with your post having followed cycling during the same timeframe as you but I didnt quite get that bit.
samerics said:Just in case it was referring to me, I'm 50 years old and have been watching cycling since LeMond and co, though i have vague memories of Merckx, and I was a keen cyclist through the 90's and 00's. I remember Indurain's first win, watched with genuine disbelief as Riis made every one look like amateurs, wondered why Boardman was so quick and yet he got blitzed in the big Tours. I even applauded Armstrong until Ferrari. In short, I've seen them come and go, I am under no illusion as to the depth of the problem, but I'm not so cynical as to believe that everyone is at it! What kind of life do you have if you believe everyone is bad without using balance and judgement? I've said it before, but this place resembles a Paranoia Convention.
samerics said:Just in case it was referring to me, I'm 50 years old and have been watching cycling since LeMond and co, though i have vague memories of Merckx, and I was a keen cyclist through the 90's and 00's. I remember Indurain's first win, watched with genuine disbelief as Riis made every one look like amateurs, wondered why Boardman was so quick and yet he got blitzed in the big Tours. I even applauded Armstrong until Ferrari. In short, I've seen them come and go, I am under no illusion as to the depth of the problem, but I'm not so cynical as to believe that everyone is at it! What kind of life do you have if you believe everyone is bad without using balance and judgement? I've said it before, but this place resembles a Paranoia Convention.
Biggut said:How is what you just posted relevant to this thread. It's completely and utterly off topic. If you think everybody was doping before and everbody is doping now then it does nothing to explain the emergence of UK riders.
So can you post anything relevant to the thread or do you just post everybody dopes on every single thread like some troll.
Benotti69 said:But everyone was at it, with a few exceptions! Festina 98 taught us that.
Why would it have changed. Various teams since then have performed at such high levels and consistency that it is virtually impossible to believe it has changed. Look at the Director Sportifs who run these teams. With a few exceptions all doped as riders or were DS during the infamous epo era.
This place is more grounded in reality based on the history of the sport and the unchanged attitude from within the sport to doping.