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2beeDammed said:Having not raced XC mountain bikes since the 90's I am amazed by the change in the dynamics of mountain bike riding/racing. At the moment I'm thinking of getting back into it and I'm looking for an update to my 90's XC bike. Looking around at used bikes on EBay it seems the whole world has gone out and brought a Down hill style bike in the last 15 years !
This is a huge surprise to me as in the 90's XC was by far more popular on the ground. Although the DH style of bikes the kids ride today do look kinda fun, the are only really practical for what they are designed for and would be useless for my needs. So, yeah it does seem XC has lost it's appeal.
It's b/c the tech has come so far. You can have six inches of plush front and rear and weigh in at near 25 lbs, so what to you might be DH is actually just now regular duty XC now.
granted plush full suspension bikes are being used,personally I can't imagine how they climb ? But even the hard tail street/dirt jump type bikes seem to be all the rage, more so than what I would call XC style bike.
The problem with bicycle racing on the whole is that it's a lot like sexual intercourse. Most people who have any interest in it would rather be participating than simply watching.
At least in the case of roadracing, they manage to capture the drama and make pretty videos of the occasion can you can take home and ...ahem ...enjoy later. The inability of the camera crews to follow along with the MTB racers and the limits that the race course places on vantage points for the spectators severely limits the fans' exposure to the competition and curtails the charge they can get from watching. The extreme MTBing videos the kids make up in the Great Northwest are far more exciting that MTB race footage.
At least in the case of roadracing, they manage to capture the drama and make pretty videos of the occasion can you can take home and ...ahem ...enjoy later. The inability of the camera crews to follow along with the MTB racers and the limits that the race course places on vantage points for the spectators severely limits the fans' exposure to the competition and curtails the charge they can get from watching. The extreme MTBing videos the kids make up in the Great Northwest are far more exciting that MTB race footage.
2beeDammed said:
They climb great. Way better then a HT if you're not a road or road-like trail.
will XC racing be viable on TV again after this weekend?
Is it watchable?
judging by the lack of posts in this MTB section of the Forum it is DOA
Is it watchable?
judging by the lack of posts in this MTB section of the Forum it is DOA
Boeing said:
Great sport from the riders' pov, but hardly a spectator's delight. It also suffers from a demographic shift whereby, the folks who jumped aboard the XC ship in its heydey have mostly grown old, fat, and frail. And downhill killed it for good, where it has become yet another RedBull Extreme Sport for halfwits with short attention span.
Still, I love it. For me at least, MTB is quietly returning to the roots of it all---the great outdoors and getting out there.
Watching the women's Olympic MTB now. From a viewers perspective it's a good course. Clearly designed for TV and not a legacy venue which is why I moaned when they announced the venue. Come the day, it does look good though. Maybe the future but a long way from where us riders started 20-25 years ago!
My friend just won the MTB Marathon world Championships yesterday, I'll forward this to him and see what he has to say about the death of MTB racing!!
Maybe it is the economy - I find it hard to afford the high entry fees and travel these days - especially knowing its very conceivable I will never win a race.
Interested to read the opinions on this. I've got mixed feelings. I saw (on TV) the events in various cycling disciplines in the London Olympics and I thought the mtb races were the best of them all...On the other hand, in the build-up to the Olympics, I complained (to anyone who would listen) that Essex was one of the worst places over here in the UK to have a mountain bike race. (Why not hold it in Wales or Scotland where there are real mountains?) This led me to the (somewhat paradoxical) conclusion that the XC racing I enjoy watching the most is held at venues where I'd least like to ride/race. (Recalling previous televised XC on 'proper' courses, which could admittedly be rather lacklustre to watch.)
Anyway, my opinions aside, the enthusiasm I saw for mtb racing at the Olympics, and the mainstream TV coverage it received, suggests that mtb racing is far from dead
Also, the old chestnut about pro mtb racers versus pro road riders...I think it's apples and oranges. Yes, some top mtb racers have been middling at best when riding against top-flight road riders, but it goes the same the other way. Unsurprisingly, a lack of technical skills often fells (literally) the top roadies when they go off-road (Robert Millar was dreadfully inept at anything remotely technical when he tried mtb - I saw that with my own eyes). But I think there's more to it than that. Road and mtb are both (brutally) hard, just in different ways. There's no mtb equivalent to a gruelling 3-week major road tour, but riders who are capable of completing one - even winning one - can't just take a couple of weeks to recover, jump on an mtb, and wipe the floor against the best mtb racers.
Anyway, my opinions aside, the enthusiasm I saw for mtb racing at the Olympics, and the mainstream TV coverage it received, suggests that mtb racing is far from dead
Also, the old chestnut about pro mtb racers versus pro road riders...I think it's apples and oranges. Yes, some top mtb racers have been middling at best when riding against top-flight road riders, but it goes the same the other way. Unsurprisingly, a lack of technical skills often fells (literally) the top roadies when they go off-road (Robert Millar was dreadfully inept at anything remotely technical when he tried mtb - I saw that with my own eyes). But I think there's more to it than that. Road and mtb are both (brutally) hard, just in different ways. There's no mtb equivalent to a gruelling 3-week major road tour, but riders who are capable of completing one - even winning one - can't just take a couple of weeks to recover, jump on an mtb, and wipe the floor against the best mtb racers.
Money may be the answer
I think that in the past 10 years (since the decline of mountain biking) the majority of marketing, and money went into road cycling. With Lance winning all the Tours, big corporations jumping on-board, and obscene salaries to some, big money just influenced the public to ride road bikes.
If a major marketing campaign showed the world what Aaron Gwin has accomplished with skills and historical World Cup podiums, you'd see a surge in mountain biking again. Imagine if an equal funding from manufacturers, sponsors and governing bodies switched from road to mtb! Whoa! We'd be in our Hey Day again + some!
Look what the Olympics, major sponsor money and television coverage did for snowboarding.
I think that in the past 10 years (since the decline of mountain biking) the majority of marketing, and money went into road cycling. With Lance winning all the Tours, big corporations jumping on-board, and obscene salaries to some, big money just influenced the public to ride road bikes.
If a major marketing campaign showed the world what Aaron Gwin has accomplished with skills and historical World Cup podiums, you'd see a surge in mountain biking again. Imagine if an equal funding from manufacturers, sponsors and governing bodies switched from road to mtb! Whoa! We'd be in our Hey Day again + some!
Look what the Olympics, major sponsor money and television coverage did for snowboarding.
MTB is absolutely not dead, now days you can see all world cup races live from start to end by streaming from redbull.tv and its mens xco, ladies xco, mens and ladies eliminator and last downhill mens and ladies.
Routes are great (not like that crappy route from the olympics) there are views from almost all route and stream quality are close to full hd.
The only minus if you are from US is that you can look long after bikers who actually can ride high level, only once this year there where one man in top 15 in xco and downhill there they do a little better still only two or tree riders in top twenty and one rider in the absolutely front
Why waste time looking at it on tv and se 20min race and 40min advertising.
The reason this forum are dead are cycling news fault when focusing way to much on slim wheels, the mtb fans just use way better forums/homepages so pretty simple.
Routes are great (not like that crappy route from the olympics) there are views from almost all route and stream quality are close to full hd.
The only minus if you are from US is that you can look long after bikers who actually can ride high level, only once this year there where one man in top 15 in xco and downhill there they do a little better still only two or tree riders in top twenty and one rider in the absolutely front
Why waste time looking at it on tv and se 20min race and 40min advertising.
The reason this forum are dead are cycling news fault when focusing way to much on slim wheels, the mtb fans just use way better forums/homepages so pretty simple.
"And downhill killed it for good, where it has become yet another RedBull Extreme Sport for halfwits with short attention span."
Downhill is for half wits and those with short attention spans? Not so!
Try more like for those with focus and goals!
Downhill is for half wits and those with short attention spans? Not so!
Try more like for those with focus and goals!
I took this from Velocipede Salon:
Actually,
There are more than a few people here who have been directly affected by all this stuff, especially the bike racers and people who sponsor bike racers, especially those of us who are in our early 30's and who raced our entire senior careers in such a hostile, inhuman, rigged environment, especially if we were(or wanted to be) MTB racers, and especially, if like many of my friends, you were on MTB teams supported by Trek(Trek slashed mtb budgets in 2000). The bike industry didn't owe any of us a living, mind you, but Weisel's boys made sure that there were as few pathways to the top as possible for the U23's of my generation. I have TOO MANY friends(lots of them) that lost things like collegiate national MTB championships or $600 checks at local races to dopes like Danielson. Bike racing is a very small world and anyone who was even slightly good at it was deeply impacted by the system Weisel's crew put in place.
The sheer amount of money that flowed out of MTB marketing toward road marketing destroyed plenty of lives and careers. It killed the careers of mechanics, team staff, PR guys, it forced "journalists" into even more sycophantic PR roles inside the industry. It put me and Stevil Kinevil behind keyboards instead of behind steering wheels driving big trucks full of tires around the country from one luxury ski resort to another for Japanese tire companies. It decimated the economies of small mountain towns. It drove thousands of passionate bike racers away from the sport.
Those of us here that are coaches, especially those of us who were full-time coaches in the thick of it(say 2004) also felt the heat hard. Tons of experience and race wins, prestigious degrees, certifications, licenses and all of that stuff were nothing against the Lance-Fueled CTS juggernaut that quickly engulfed a huge part of the coaching profession and effectively fixed prices and became the gorilla in the room. THOSE GUYZZZ COACH LANCE ZOMNGG@!!!
The amount if Freds and Newbs and clueless rich people and milquetoast Cancer Haters the "Lance Effect" brought into road bikes helped to put the nail in the coffin of American bicycle manufacturing too. Once the dollar signs were illuminated in the heavens it was real hard for profit-driven corporations not to crack the top of Pandora's 10% lighter, 20% stiffer box and fluff the hype on road bikes to a place that makes a rational persons skin crawl. Woohooo, sell road bikes! Woooo! Pro-Tour tested technology! Lance rides it! Who cares who made it, where it's made and that it costs $10k etc...
The Lance-Effect dittoheads and middle-american toe dippers "helped" the bike industry I suppose.
As a mountain bike racer and mountain bike builder and mountainbike fan I didn't/don't care much about that stuff though, especially since it brought in so many consumers that someone who has an opinion is allowed to perceive as ****ing worthless sheep that eat up marketing claims and believe in magic.
I'd be totally OK with the bike industry being smaller and poorer right now. Especially if it meant more income parity between road and mtb racers.
Actually,
There are more than a few people here who have been directly affected by all this stuff, especially the bike racers and people who sponsor bike racers, especially those of us who are in our early 30's and who raced our entire senior careers in such a hostile, inhuman, rigged environment, especially if we were(or wanted to be) MTB racers, and especially, if like many of my friends, you were on MTB teams supported by Trek(Trek slashed mtb budgets in 2000). The bike industry didn't owe any of us a living, mind you, but Weisel's boys made sure that there were as few pathways to the top as possible for the U23's of my generation. I have TOO MANY friends(lots of them) that lost things like collegiate national MTB championships or $600 checks at local races to dopes like Danielson. Bike racing is a very small world and anyone who was even slightly good at it was deeply impacted by the system Weisel's crew put in place.
The sheer amount of money that flowed out of MTB marketing toward road marketing destroyed plenty of lives and careers. It killed the careers of mechanics, team staff, PR guys, it forced "journalists" into even more sycophantic PR roles inside the industry. It put me and Stevil Kinevil behind keyboards instead of behind steering wheels driving big trucks full of tires around the country from one luxury ski resort to another for Japanese tire companies. It decimated the economies of small mountain towns. It drove thousands of passionate bike racers away from the sport.
Those of us here that are coaches, especially those of us who were full-time coaches in the thick of it(say 2004) also felt the heat hard. Tons of experience and race wins, prestigious degrees, certifications, licenses and all of that stuff were nothing against the Lance-Fueled CTS juggernaut that quickly engulfed a huge part of the coaching profession and effectively fixed prices and became the gorilla in the room. THOSE GUYZZZ COACH LANCE ZOMNGG@!!!
The amount if Freds and Newbs and clueless rich people and milquetoast Cancer Haters the "Lance Effect" brought into road bikes helped to put the nail in the coffin of American bicycle manufacturing too. Once the dollar signs were illuminated in the heavens it was real hard for profit-driven corporations not to crack the top of Pandora's 10% lighter, 20% stiffer box and fluff the hype on road bikes to a place that makes a rational persons skin crawl. Woohooo, sell road bikes! Woooo! Pro-Tour tested technology! Lance rides it! Who cares who made it, where it's made and that it costs $10k etc...
The Lance-Effect dittoheads and middle-american toe dippers "helped" the bike industry I suppose.
As a mountain bike racer and mountain bike builder and mountainbike fan I didn't/don't care much about that stuff though, especially since it brought in so many consumers that someone who has an opinion is allowed to perceive as ****ing worthless sheep that eat up marketing claims and believe in magic.
I'd be totally OK with the bike industry being smaller and poorer right now. Especially if it meant more income parity between road and mtb racers.
BroDeal said:
this is good. but I feel we are missing a bit of context. can you link or add more detail like post replied to?
Boeing said:
It is from a thread that was not about MTB. It was about haters and Armstrong. One of the guys from Spooky weighed in on how it affected him. I thought the stuff about CTS and how road cycling sucked the money out of MTB was interesting.
I am not so sure I buy all of it. MTB was in decline and road cycling was on the up before Armstrong won the Tour. I see the X-gameification of mountain biking as a big factor in its decline with recreational, fitness oriented riders. The growth segment in road cycling is middle aged yuppies. Those guys (and gals) can't risk injury by doing stupid things on a mountain bike. It cannot be a long term activity.
Meanwhile, cyclocross has exploded in popularity...
BroDeal said:
I can't emphasize the accuracy of this observation enough. 2012 is almost over and nothing has changed at USAC/UCI. Their goal is not to develop a diverse cycling economy. It's to tithe the money that is in it. Right now, we're down to a tiny group of manufacturers and just a couple of brands fueling the UCI's elite racing. The money is still coming in, so nothing changes.
I was around perhipheral to everything during NORBA's heyday. UCI's race format is not designed for participation. Small, boring loops attract a few high-strung golf-loving riders. It's designed to develop actors for a media property.
The more popular events are still out there though attracting huge crowds but none are UCI sanctioned. The market for non-UCI races is fertile and prospering.
I would argue cross racing is only gaining popularity because of summer racers having money to burn seeking weekend warrior glory, not necessarily new consumers. Cross bike sales are increasing because they are legitimate multi-use bikes. As for road cycling sales increasing, I would argue it was because of increased bicycle transportation access and in the U.S. an aging population seeking low-injury, moderate exertion fitness. Look at how popular ski-lift mountain biking is.. But for the climbing part, moutain biking would be crazy popular.
Finally, I am one of those old dudes and we are neither fat nor slow. I'm not going to finish on the same lap in an Elite category race because there's no genetic gift.
Bike Odyssey XC Race!
Check this out!
http://bikeodyssey.gr/
"
An epic race this May 2013 in the mountains of Greece
26th May - 2nd June 2013
Bike Odyssey is an eight - days mountain bike race across Pindus Mountains in Greece.
Eight days - eight stages, in a harsh mtb adventure. From the village of Laista in Zagorohoria up to the historical city of Delphi, this race will be a cycling odyssey for the riders!
The exact route is still to be decided but one thing is certain... Bike Odyssey will be the most demanding mtb race in Greece ever!
The route will include both paths and gravel roads in forested landscapes as well as small asphalt sections. The race will be a real mountain adventure for those who love mtb!
The total distance is approximately 515.7 km and spread over seven stages and a prologue with stopovers at the historic villages of Pindos and locations of natural beauty. Each participant will be a modern Odysseus that has to fight to get to our "Ithaca" by overcoming physical barriers, using all their ingenuity, skills and abilities and transcending oneself to finally reach its destination and be crowned winner! The difficulties will be many across the mountain trails in the Pindos. Eight days full of adventure and challenges for t riders.
More details will be announced soon. Information on the following links:
"http://www.facebook.com/pages/Bike-Odyssey/164291513617269 "
Sounds quite interesting...
Boeing said:
Check this out!
http://bikeodyssey.gr/
"
An epic race this May 2013 in the mountains of Greece
26th May - 2nd June 2013
Bike Odyssey is an eight - days mountain bike race across Pindus Mountains in Greece.
Eight days - eight stages, in a harsh mtb adventure. From the village of Laista in Zagorohoria up to the historical city of Delphi, this race will be a cycling odyssey for the riders!
The exact route is still to be decided but one thing is certain... Bike Odyssey will be the most demanding mtb race in Greece ever!
The route will include both paths and gravel roads in forested landscapes as well as small asphalt sections. The race will be a real mountain adventure for those who love mtb!
The total distance is approximately 515.7 km and spread over seven stages and a prologue with stopovers at the historic villages of Pindos and locations of natural beauty. Each participant will be a modern Odysseus that has to fight to get to our "Ithaca" by overcoming physical barriers, using all their ingenuity, skills and abilities and transcending oneself to finally reach its destination and be crowned winner! The difficulties will be many across the mountain trails in the Pindos. Eight days full of adventure and challenges for t riders.
More details will be announced soon. Information on the following links:
"http://www.facebook.com/pages/Bike-Odyssey/164291513617269 "
Sounds quite interesting...
MTB ADDICT said:
it does sound interesting. I like the enduro racing approach as well.
good links
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