Why no low cost aero wheels?

[avanti]

The cost of carbon frames has plummeted over the last several years. So why does no one yet make a low cost set of carbon aero wheels (disc or wide rim) sellling for around $500 or less. I'm sure there would be a big market for them. Are the current suppliers protecting thier higher cost products?

 

[Oldman]

The cost of carbon frames has plummeted over the last several years. So why does no one yet make a low cost set of carbon aero wheels (disc or wide rim) sellling for around $500 or less. I'm sure there would be a big market for them. Are the current suppliers protecting thier higher cost products?

They may be subject to higher product liability insurance costs. Many medium priced versions have been big failures and cost their company alot to replace, retool.

 

[Black Dog]

They would likely be too heavy in order to keep the cost down and the durability up. With the hyper-irrational obsession with weight that the industry has created among riders it would be a no go. If you want light and durable it will not be cheap.

 

[mkubota1]

Not for casual riders on casual budgets

My guess is that if they made a carbon wheel that cheap they would be heavy (over 2000 grams/pr) and nobody would buy them for that reason alone. Product liability is another good one. People who spend $1500+ on wheels know what they're getting into- questionable braking performance, cross-wind vulnerability and generally less durable than similarly priced aluminum rims. I don't think any manufacturer would want to expose themselves to that much liability. Remember the guy who sued Porsche for making the car too fast? If you yourself are looking for a "cheap" set of carbons, check out the Neuvation C50s- $600/pr and it seems like most who own them love them.

 

[rgmerk]

Wait another couple of years, and I'm sure low-end carbon rims will be available at that kind of price.

I'd be surprised if they go much lower than that, because they're unlikely to be sold as standard equipment on low-end bikes.

 

[kiwirider]

They do make cheap, high quality carbon fibre wheels ...

Problem is that by the time they've got from the factory in China or Taiwan that makes them for a couple of hundred bucks to the marketing company (ie., the one who's logo is actually on them ... most people call these companies "the manufacturers") and then to their national agent and finally the shop that you buy them from, there's a huge mark up that's gone on.

And before I get flamed by people:
- this is based on personal knowledge of unbranded wheels being bought in China (not by me - but by a close friend who was there supporting a team at a couple of international races recently) and also from pricing of "local brand" wheels that I bought back in NZ at one stage;
- I agree - most of the mark up is at the marketing company and the national agent - not the bike shop ...

I know ... I'm cynical ... but I am yet to be convinced that we are seeing the benefits of outsourcing production to China flowing through to the consumer for most products ...

 

[Race Radio]

These guys make some good wheels. Their new model should be out soon. around $1,000, 1100 grams

http://www.bikesoul.com/s52t.html

 

[cyclestationgiuseppe]

http://www.neuvationcycling.com/wheels.html

 

[Mike Jacoubowsky]

"Carbon fiber" is not an adjective

Carbon fiber isn't an adjective. It's just a material, and you can build really great stuff out of it, and not-so-great stuff. This is what's happened with framsets; you are kidding yourself if you believe that a $4000 frame rides similarly to a $1300 frame. It's not so much the material as it is what you do with it.

The fact that we've become familiar enough with carbon fiber to expand the range of its utility in framesets represents one heck of a lot of accumulated knowledge over the past 10 years because its use has been so widespread. We've figured out how which corners can be cut to create something that's "good enough" and has the right looks.

But for wheels? We're not even close to that point, especially if you're talking clinchers, which have to support massive forces pushing aginst the sidewalls of the tires. But even for tubulars there are still a lot of variables that must be controlled to a degree that's not required for a frame. For example, on a frame it really doesn't matter if one varies from another by a couple of millimeters when it comes out of the mold. On a rim, the braking surface tolerances have to be much better than that, and they can't be machined afterward if it doesn't come out right. It's simply scrapped.

And "good enough" just doesn't cut it for a wheel, does it? Your life depends upon your wheels holding together, and the sidewalls being able to withstand the heat (which carbon won't dissipate like aluminum) as well as whatever extra pressure might accumulate from the tire heating up (in the case of a clincher).

For now, I think we're a lot better off with carbon wheels defining the very high end. Eventually that will change, but don't look for that to happen very soon. There remain quite a few lessons to be learned, lessons that are learned through producing a whole lot of high-end wheels.

 

[JeffreyPerry]

The cost of carbon frames has plummeted over the last several years. So why does no one yet make a low cost set of carbon aero wheels (disc or wide rim) sellling for around $500 or less. I'm sure there would be a big market for them. Are the current suppliers protecting thier higher cost products?

GO HERE: http://www.williamscycling.com/58ct/58ct.html

Go Here for review of above wheels in clincher: http://www.testrider.com/fly.aspx?layout=player&video=74

SWEET!!!

 

[Bustedknuckle]

Carbon fiber isn't an adjective. It's just a material, and you can build really great stuff out of it, and not-so-great stuff. This is what's happened with framsets; you are kidding yourself if you believe that a $4000 frame rides similarly to a $1300 frame. It's not so much the material as it is what you do with it.

The fact that we've become familiar enough with carbon fiber to expand the range of its utility in framesets represents one heck of a lot of accumulated knowledge over the past 10 years because its use has been so widespread. We've figured out how which corners can be cut to create something that's "good enough" and has the right looks.

But for wheels? We're not even close to that point, especially if you're talking clinchers, which have to support massive forces pushing aginst the sidewalls of the tires. But even for tubulars there are still a lot of variables that must be controlled to a degree that's not required for a frame. For example, on a frame it really doesn't matter if one varies from another by a couple of millimeters when it comes out of the mold. On a rim, the braking surface tolerances have to be much better than that, and they can't be machined afterward if it doesn't come out right. It's simply scrapped.

And "good enough" just doesn't cut it for a wheel, does it? Your life depends upon your wheels holding together, and the sidewalls being able to withstand the heat (which carbon won't dissipate like aluminum) as well as whatever extra pressure might accumulate from the tire heating up (in the case of a clincher).

For now, I think we're a lot better off with carbon wheels defining the very high end. Eventually that will change, but don't look for that to happen very soon. There remain quite a few lessons to be learned, lessons that are learned through producing a whole lot of high-end wheels.

Mike! Welcome!

 

[nightfend]

Come on people, $1000 is not cheap. Only in our inflation bloated industry would we consider wheels that expensive "cheap".

 

[kiwirider]

For now, I think we're a lot better off with carbon wheels defining the very high end. Eventually that will change, but don't look for that to happen very soon. There remain quite a few lessons to be learned, lessons that are learned through producing a whole lot of high-end wheels.

Hmmm .... maybe I was wrong on the level of mark up that bike shops make on high end carbon wheels ... Otherwise I'm at a loss to understand why a shop would advocate keeping them as a high end product only ...

Your argument holds no water at all - especially given how many of the carbon products are already coming out of mass production out source manufacturers. Mass production enables economies of scale - which translates into reduced per unit manufacturing costs. Whether that translates in turn into reduced per unit retail costs is another issue. Find the earlier thread entitled "Have bike manufacturers gone mad" for the general consensus of forum members on how much of a flow through of those savings is (not) happening ...

Applying that to the current example - it is very easy to still build a high quality - and safe - wheel at a low price by making use of the Chinese and Taiwanese outsource manufacturers who dominate the industry. These manufacturers have all of the CAD/CAM equipment needed to even carry out the design and fine tuning for the branded manufacturer. In fact, I understand that some of them actually work as a research partner with the brand manufacturers of frames and some components. Given their dominance of the bike industry, I'd also suggest that the Asian mass producers probably account for the biggest proportion of the high end materials of all descriptions consumed by the bike industry globally. So, arguments of the "need" to keep wheels at a high end price just don't wash with me ...

And to elaborate on one of my personal experience examples ... I bought a set of deep dish carbon wheels that to most people's eyes looked to be a duplicate of an FSA wheelset. Only differences were the use of DT Revolution spokes and the name. They came with an individual serial number on each wheel and a five year guarantee. All this for half the cost of the FSA wheelset ... So, again, I can't accept the argument that wheels must remain a high priced commodity ...

 

[Bustedknuckle]

These guys make some good wheels. Their new model should be out soon. around $1,000, 1100 grams

http://www.bikesoul.com/s52t.html

1400 grams for $1100...add 200 grams, subtract 1/2 the price.

 

[Race Radio]

1400 grams for $1100...add 200 grams, subtract 1/2 the price.

There new $1,000/1000 gram model is not on the site yet. As I wrote, it will be out soon.

 

[nightfend]

There new $1,000/1000 gram model is not on the site yet. As I wrote, it will be out soon.

The dudes in Tawain. Not really an option for most of us on this forum who are from the US or Europe.