Wiggins Climbing for Team Sky at The Tour?

[Carl-Singleton]

The recent rise in the climbing abilities of Bradley Wiggins has surely not gone un-noticed. With the formation of Team Sky, do you think this would be his major motivation (i.e securing a place on their roster), or was he really here at the Giro with realistic aims of helping van de Velde in the mountains?


Britain needs a climbing sensation... especially if Team Sky is to win the Tour with a British rider. Anyone think Wiggins could change his style enough? or is there someone else out there now in the pro ranks who could fill this niche?

Chris Froome?

With the British track setup undoubtedly translating into Team Sky/GB, would it not be a failure/disappointment to just get results in time-trialing and fat races?

Any thoughts? Will Team Sky succeed without a host of foreign guidership and domestiques?

 

[ingsve]

I don't remember what their timeframe was but I feel that Wiggins might be a little too late to reach all the way to a Tour victory.

Losing weaight was certainly one necessary step but it will take more adapting and experience to become a real GC threat in the Tour.

What I think he certainly could be is a strong asset in the mountains in a Team Sky rooster.

He would stand a better chance than David Millar though.

 

[Big_Blue_Dave]

Its just that Brad is focusing on the road for a season or two has has lost a lot of bulk that he carried with his track work, hence he is able to climb better. He seems to have maintained his power too with his prologue in Paris-Nice.

I would also suggest that Brad has always had the legs to climb better than in the past as in the Tour either last year or the year before he paced Sylvain Chavanel back up to the peloton when he had a bike problem before just sitting up again and going back to his nearest gruppo.

To answer your question though, I see Chris Froome and Dan Lloyd as being the two Brit riders that may go for overall victory at a Grand Tour if they end up on the Sky team, it would not surprise me to see Dan Fleeman involved in the squad too.

My main question though is which bike manufacturer will they go with as they use Trek on the road, and my local manufacturer Dolan for the track. That will certainly be the biggest question for me over the next few months.

 

[ukpaul]

Fingers crossed it's the Dolan

 

[LugHugger]

given dave brailsford's track record (pardon the pun) and the new boardman frames in production and development, i don't see it being trek or dolan.

no doubt there are several frames under development.

as to brad, there's zero chance of him being a serious gc contender.

 

[Anonymous]

Britain needs a climbing sensation... especially if Team Sky is to win the Tour with a British rider. Anyone think Wiggins could change his style enough? or is there someone else out there now in the pro ranks who could fill this niche?

Dont mistake someone who can sing a couple of tunes, for a potenial pop star....

 

[lookkg386]

Dont mistake someone who can sing a couple of tunes, for a potenial pop star....

Lol, must admit he's climbing suprised me too, his improvements remind me of Brad McGee after losing some weight too, from memory he may have finished top 10 or 15 in the Giro 5 or so years ago.

 

[Delicato]

Lol, must admit he's climbing suprised me too, his improvements remind me of Brad McGee after losing some weight too, from memory he may have finished top 10 or 15 in the Giro 5 or so years ago.

That was in 2004 Giro (a joke of the race,honestly, no significant mountains, and two Saeco boys battling for the win), McGee was 8th or something. There also was a long time trial which helped Brad.

 

[lucybears]

Will Team Sky succeed without a host of foreign guidership and domestiques?

Scott Sunderland, mánager deportivo del Team Sky en 2010, se ha desplazado a Italia para negociar con algunos de los ciclistas más importantes de Italia, Alesandro Ballan, Franco Pellizotti, Eros Capecchi, Danilo Di Luca o Alessandro Petacchi, según revela Tuttosport.

 

[Leopejo]

Scott Sunderland, mánager deportivo del Team Sky en 2010, se ha desplazado a Italia para negociar con algunos de los ciclistas más importantes de Italia, Alesandro Ballan, Franco Pellizotti, Eros Capecchi, Danilo Di Luca o Alessandro Petacchi, según revela Tuttosport.

I don't know about Tuttosport's cycling coverage - apart from it being a fraction of Gazzetta's cycling coverage - but for football Tuttosport is known to be the most unreliable sports paper in Italy. Every day a new superstar is signing for Juventus, according to them.

 

[Bala Verde]

I still find it interesting to see how well he has developed and I am curious to find out how he will perform in the next (consecutive) mountain stages.

One thing that does surprise me a little is this, a rather comparable case.

Theo Bos is also adapting to road racing, and although he has only recently made the switch, he has decided to fully focus on a road career. As a former track racer, he obviously needed to lose some weight, which he has done. He states that he still needs to lose 1-2kg to reach his ideal raceing weight. Unfortunately for him, he has found out that weight loss in and by itself, has not helped him a lot in becoming a better 'climber', as he gets dropped on almost anything closely resembling a bump in the road.

Does anyone know what other training techniques Wiggins has been using, and since when, to become a better climber, because weight loss in and by itself, does not automatically seem to warrant improved climbing capacities?

 

[ingsve]

Does anyone know what other training techniques Wiggins has been using, and since when, to become a better climber, because weight loss in and by itself, does not automatically seem to warrant improved climbing capacities?

Well, I think comparing Theo Bos and Wiggins is slightly off the mark. I don't follow track cycling much so don't really know how they train but it seems to me that Bos is more of a sprinter type and would train more focused on explosivity and speed while Wiggins being better at pursuit and madison probably has more endurance training.

This would also suggest that they wouldn't find the same exact benefits from losing weight. While Bos probably does manage climbs better with less weight his previous training is probably not optimal for climbs while Wiggins endurance training would be more suited for climbing so losing a few kilos would translate better into climbing since he already had training that helped his climbing.

 

[Bala Verde]

Well, I think comparing Theo Bos and Wiggins is slightly off the mark. I don't follow track cycling much so don't really know how they train but it seems to me that Bos is more of a sprinter type and would train more focused on explosivity and speed while Wiggins being better at pursuit and madison probably has more endurance training.

This would also suggest that they wouldn't find the same exact benefits from losing weight. While Bos probably does manage climbs better with less weight his previous training is probably not optimal for climbs while Wiggins endurance training would be more suited for climbing so losing a few kilos would translate better into climbing since he already had training that helped his climbing.

In a way you are absolutely right, but Wiggins 'only' excelled at the 4k individual/team pursuit, which can hardly be called a long distance, or a pure endurance distance...

 

[ingsve]

In a way you are absolutely right, but Wiggins 'only' excelled at the 4k individual/team pursuit, which can hardly be called a long distance, or a pure endurance distance...

Well, what matters isn't what distance he was riding but rather what type of training he was doing. Considering his prowess in time trials even while still being a track cyclist suggests that his training has in large parts endurance training rather than strength, speed or explosivity at least.

 

[Leopejo]

In a way you are absolutely right, but Wiggins 'only' excelled at the 4k individual/team pursuit, which can hardly be called a long distance, or a pure endurance distance...

Not a pure endurance event, but very near, in both required talent and training methods, and historically there has been plenty of overlap between 4 km specialists and time trialers. And we know there also is plenty of overlap between time trialers and GT winners who know how to climb.

Road sprinters without prior track experience sometimes try to contest the kilometer (Cipollini). With track experience they are well suited for the points race and madison (Martinello, Lombardi, to continue with former Italian sprinters).

I don't know of road sprinters who excel in the sprint or keirin, but the opposite has been tried sometimes, including Bos or Nothstein.

But I know near to nothing of track cycling, so I better shut up before I embarass myself too much

 

[Big_Blue_Dave]

Not a pure endurance event, but very near, in both required talent and training methods, and historically there has been plenty of overlap between 4 km specialists and time trialers. And we know there also is plenty of overlap between time trialers and GT winners who know how to climb.

Road sprinters without prior track experience sometimes try to contest the kilometer (Cipollini). With track experience they are well suited for the points race and madison (Martinello, Lombardi, to continue with former Italian sprinters).

I don't know of road sprinters who excel in the sprint or keirin, but the opposite has been tried sometimes, including Bos or Nothstein.

But I know near to nothing of track cycling, so I better shut up before I embarass myself too much

I'll save you from embarassment here, Greame Brown one of the well known sprinters in road racing is a team pursuiter on the track, Olaf Pollack who was a second string, but not second rate, sprinter at Telekom has been a very good racer on the track in 6 day events and team endurance events on the track, also here read Robert Bartko.

Further cases in point would be Stuart O'Grady, not an all out sprinter on the road but he was a team pursuit and madison rider on the track.

This is just in the past decade or so. Their training is all about distance and intervals which is well suited to middle distance and endurance events on the track. Track sprinters train to be able to have that ultimate explosion to get as high a speed as quick as possible and to hold it for a short period of time. Yes, they do some endurance training but this is simply to ensure that they keep their muscles from tiring almost immediately at anaerobic levels.

The only track sprinter that I can currently see as being a future road racer at the moment is Mickael d'Almeida of France who seems to have that build which can translate from track to road.

By the way, I have not yet mentioned Mark Cavendish who is also an endurance rider on the track and can just about show a turn of speed on the road.

 

[Bala Verde]

So to me it seems there is more overlap between road sprinters, or explosive men still after a long and hard stage, and track (indv) pursuit cyclists then between TT specialists or GC contenders who climb and TT well and track pursuit cyclists (or did I read the previous post wrong).

To be a 4k pursuit specialist, I'd reckon you need explosiveness, to get to a high speed as quickly as possible, and then maintain it, for a relatively short period of time (4k). Compared to longer TTs (7k and up), the explosiveness at the start is less important.

Let's also not forget about Boonen and Hushovd, who are rather well known prologue specialists.

All of the aforementioned riders hardly seem to be able to turn into 'mountain goats'. Would Boonen, Cavendish, Hushovd, really become that much better at climbing when they'd shed some weight? Perhaps however my question is (mis)guided by popular perception that they are spinters and hence no climber, and/or unwillingless/showing no desire to become a better climber because they are already succesful at what they do. Why change a winning formula...

I have always wondered, and by what I have read, he himself as well, how well he would perform as a GC contender in smaller one week rounds, if he's lose some pounds. I am talking about Fab Cancelara now.

 

[Big_Blue_Dave]

One racer I would point out as someone who did try to cross from track to become a GC contender was Chris Boardman, only problem with him of course was that he struggled with the endurance element over the three week period and was suited to the shorter stage races such as the Dauphine.

 

[pmcg76]

I think everyone is getting a little overexcited about Brad Wiggins turning into a climber, last time I checked he had lost over 5 minutes in just one week. From what I have seen, they havent even started throwing out the big stuff yet, there have been groups of about 40 guys or so together close to the finishes, hardly what you expect in the mountians.

I think this is the first time Wiggins has focused on trying to compete in the mountains, having watched many GTs and been to a few, its pretty obvious that a lot of guys who know they arent going to be up there in GC dont bother in the mountians and just ride up in the gruppetto, saving their strength for other stages.

For many guys 30th or 130th on GC is all the same. Wiggins most definitely fell into this category in the past. This time I think he is actually seeing how far he can go in the mountians and GC. Dont think he is gonna turn into a GT contender, he is only in Top 30 and lets wait to see if he is still there after 3 weeks.

Already people are coming with the D angle but Wiggins has always had a firm stance on doping in the past so hard to believe things have changed now, perhaps we should be looking at Garmin teamate Tom Danielson and asking why aint he riding now like he did at Discovery Channel.

 

[mr. tibbs]

My main question though is which bike manufacturer will they go with as they use Trek on the road, and my local manufacturer Dolan for the track. That will certainly be the biggest question for me over the next few months.

Why not Giant? They're a UK company, aren't they?

 

[Bala Verde]

Why not Giant? They're a UK company, aren't they?

I thought they were Taiwanese...

and my assumption was correct (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giant_Manufacturing)

 

[Anonymous]

Well, I think comparing Theo Bos and Wiggins is slightly off the mark. I don't follow track cycling much so don't really know how they train but it seems to me that Bos is more of a sprinter type and would train more focused on explosivity and speed while Wiggins being better at pursuit and madison probably has more endurance training.

and theo boss is a mindless thug who shouldnt even be riding.. (in my opinion) anyway..

 

[Anonymous]

Already people are coming with the D angle but Wiggins has always had a firm stance on doping in the past so hard to believe things have changed now, perhaps we should be looking at Garmin teamate Tom Danielson and asking why aint he riding now like he did at Discovery Channel.

wiggins has already put forward his points of view on this, more training as he has been doing less track riding, working on diet etc, and also the fact that he feels in a cleaner pelaton he is more able to compete on an equal level..

looking at the relevant skills int he two disciplines, it makes you wonder what EbH would be like as a track rider over some of the mid distance events..

 

[ingsve]

So to me it seems there is more overlap between road sprinters, or explosive men still after a long and hard stage, and track (indv) pursuit cyclists then between TT specialists or GC contenders who climb and TT well and track pursuit cyclists (or did I read the previous post wrong).

The sample size is hardly big enough to draw any such conclusions. I would for example venture that track sprinters would probably outsprint pursuit riders in a road bunch sprint but would drop earlier in a climb. And just because you can sprint fairly well from a pursuit background doesn't mean you necessarily need to be super explosive.

To be a 4k pursuit specialist, I'd reckon you need explosiveness, to get to a high speed as quickly as possible, and then maintain it, for a relatively short period of time (4k). Compared to longer TTs (7k and up), the explosiveness at the start is less important.

Let's also not forget about Boonen and Hushovd, who are rather well known prologue specialists.

I'm sure there are diffrent types of pursuit riders just like there are diffrent types of sprinters etc. Hushovd is rather diffrent type of sprinter for example. He isn't your typical explosive sprinter but more of a power sprinter who can maintain a high top speed for a long time and doesn't have the same burst speed of McEwen or Cavendish. I'm sure Hushovd would make an excellent track pursuit rider.

All of the aforementioned riders hardly seem to be able to turn into 'mountain goats'. Would Boonen, Cavendish, Hushovd, really become that much better at climbing when they'd shed some weight? Perhaps however my question is (mis)guided by popular perception that they are spinters and hence no climber, and/or unwillingless/showing no desire to become a better climber because they are already succesful at what they do. Why change a winning formula...

Hushovd could certainly have become a decent climber if he had made other choices earlier in his career. If you remember he started out being alot better at longer time trials than he is now (U-23 World TT champion, 7th at Sydney Olympic TT etc). He's always been a very heavy rider though (over 82-85 kilos usually) so the step to becoming a climber was always a big step. He would have had to lose 10-15 kilos to become a good climber. What he did though was focus on becoming a sprinter so in his career he has trained to become more and more explosive which has made him less likely to climb and TT well.

I have always wondered, and by what I have read, he himself as well, how well he would perform as a GC contender in smaller one week rounds, if he's lose some pounds. I am talking about Fab Cancelara now.

I'm sure he would be an excellent GC contender but as Hushovd he has alot of extra kilos to get rid of before that could happen. We need to realize though that neither of these could become a mountain goat like Simoni, Heras, Pantani etc. They would be climbers of the same type as Indurain, Ullrich or Gontchar.

 

[BigBoat]

Wiggins is super super jacked right now. Garmin has a very good medical program. If I was Wiggins, I would stay with Garmin and not go anywhere.