Wiggins real reason for leaving Garmin

[Oldnell]

Strange how he welcomed a doper back into the sport in Lance.
"I just think it’s fantastic, you know, a champion like that before retirement, he obviously feels he can still win at the top level."

Then again, the anti-doping crusader that is Vaughters, had this to say: "He’s opened himself up to a transparent anti-doping policy. So it can only be good for he the sport. If he’s opening all the results of his drug testing and he does get the same results as he did a few years ago that’s perfect, isn’t it?"

I want to puke.....

That would be a very good idea. It might get some of the venom out of your system.

 

[Digger]

That would be a very good idea. It might get some of the venom out of your system.

Says the one who posts with such anger and vitriol himself.

Ah the hypocrisy.

Posts in bold from yourself. And you talk about me spewing venom. Different posts are numbered.

(1) Because the only people who give any credence to L2L and the rest of the libellous venom spewed out by Walsh, Ballester, Kimmage and the like are the sordid conspiracy theorists and LA haters who make up this forum. Get a life!!

(2) This is forum mostly made up of sad people who hate excellence, probably because they are not willing or able to work hard enough to achieve it themselves
(3)You, as well as most of your libellous conspiracy theorists who dominate this forum, do not know what you are talking about, as usual
(4) I feel sorry for sordid haters like you who do all of their thinking from a much lower part of their anatomy.
(5) Although it is dominated by libellous conspiracy theorists who hate excellence.
(6) It may surprise you and the rest of the Armstrong haters on this forum.
(7) People who use a combination of half truths, innuendo, and absolute falsehoods to trash anyone who achieves excellence deserve nothing better. I calls them the way I sees them!!!
(8) In order to do that I would have to reprint nearly everything you and the rest of the LA haters have been printing since I had the misfortune to come upon this forum.
(9) but most of them are like me who have better things to do with their time than waste it arguing with people like you who hate excellence and believe everyone who has achieved it is a cheat. I happened on to this forum and was so disgusted that I felt considerably better having told you what I thought of you.


By the way, you talk about your misfortune at finding this forum, and how your first post would be your last, why are you still here then?

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Says the one who posts with such anger and vitriol himself.

Ah the hypocrisy.

Yes indeed - very strange behaviour. Almost all his posts have been ad hominem in nature and he has yet to articulate an opposing view.

I find this rather strange and unsettling. I also have asked him - as he is a senior poster based in France what CRM is, yet he has gone silent even though his light is on.

 

[lanternrouge]

By now most will have seen either of the following articles after Wiggins either joked or lost his cool after the ITT at the World Championships:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/wiggins-comments-fuel-sky-speculation

http://www.velonews.com/article/98562/wiggins-looking-skyward

In the Professional road racing forum there is a thread or two about him. My thoughts belong here in the Clinic.

My first thought was that maybe the sucker has wised up. He really does want to win the TdF and after a fleeting glance in the clinic for threads, the jury is still out about the degree of help Garmin are willing to provide in terms of recovery. Gluten free diets, Lim's positive thinking and drastic weight loss only make one ride soo much faster. Also the massive anti doping monicker Vaughters has attached to the team doesn't really help if Wiggins seriously and realistically expects to win the Tour de France.

After reading this article: http://www.sbs.com.au/cyclingcentral/news/5557/Wiggins-says-he-needs-a-move-to-improve

My only conclusion is that Wiggins knows the only way to improve is to get a serious doping program and that it is never going to happen at Garmin, at least to the degree he'll need to be competitive in the hills. So make a suggestion of a move in line with the rumours and hey presto, when it happens the lame excuses aren't necessary. Any thoughts people?

My thoughts? You are an idiot. Completer and utter tosh!

So the rider who is one of the most outspoken about doping and who is willing to provide blood profiles from last 10 years is wanting to start doping?

Since when does a rider have to change teams to take drugs? Is this the same clean garmin that wants to sign a certain spanish rider of dubious at best peurto history?

Not content with smearing wiggins good name and reputation you are also suggesting that to kick start this tour winning doping programme he wants to go to Sky who are anti doping in the strictist sense.

I for one hope that several law suits are winging their way to you as we speak.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Says the one who posts with such anger and vitriol himself.
..........
By the way, you talk about your misfortune at finding this forum, and how your first post would be your last, why are you still here then?

I wouldn't worry too much about it Digger.

Oldnell professed that he appreciates excellence and doesn't like conspiracy theorists or people with libelous intent - and yet all he has managed is to make personal attacks.

What spiked my interest in that is his assertion:

You, as well as most of your libellous conspiracy theorists who dominate this forum, do not know what you are talking about, as usual. You never bother to check any of your facts and very recklessly use quotations. I was an airline pilot and captain for over 30 years and did a lot of my flying in Europe. Except for July and August, the weather in Spain is much better than in France. This can easily be confirmed by checking the "climat mondial" records on http://www.meteofrance.fr. I have also lived in France for most of the last 8 years and can confirm that the weather is pretty crappy for most of the year.

It struck me as odd as a Pilot and Captain would be well versed in CRM - and I have mentioned this in several posts to Oldnell - he appears to not know what CRM - Crew Resource Management- is.
Which is a pity as one of its principles is that "CRM fosters a climate or culture where the freedom to respectfully question authority is encouraged".

 

[ggusta]

I think he needs to stop whining so much.

Hate to make such a generalization in a forum filled with cycling fans, but even as athletes go, pro cyclists whine a noticeable amount more than other (whiny) pro athletes. At least to me, it seems that way.

So why should he be held to any higher standard?

You can flame me, I don't mind.

I would note that his (WiggEns) toss of his broken bike was half hearted. Now Bjarne, he could win a bike toss. Every time I am tempted to toss mine, I envision getting a saddle to the groin-al region and then I resist the urge. Plus it's usually a long walk home.

 

[fatandfast]

He is moving on Garmin has all the d bags any team could need and more.

 

[Anonymous]

My thoughts? You are an idiot. Completer and utter tosh!

So the rider who is one of the most outspoken about doping and who is willing to provide blood profiles from last 10 years is wanting to start doping?

Since when does a rider have to change teams to take drugs? Is this the same clean garmin that wants to sign a certain spanish rider of dubious at best peurto history?

Not content with smearing wiggins good name and reputation you are also suggesting that to kick start this tour winning doping programme he wants to go to Sky who are anti doping in the strictist sense.

I for one hope that several law suits are winging their way to you as we speak.

OK, this is comedy.

 

[Galic Ho]

My thoughts? You are an idiot. Completer and utter tosh!

Care to back that up with an argument? Or are you another British sook? Have a go at the aussie riders if you feel the need. I don't have blind patriotic vitriol (not that you do) but take a swing of if you feel.

So the rider who is one of the most outspoken about doping and who is willing to provide blood profiles from last 10 years is wanting to start doping?

Compared to whom? LA? Riis? Liggett? Such is the history and nature of cycling, one does not get pre-supported virtue and credibility because cycling has a disgusting past. Read the other posts. Wiggins has never unequivocably stated he is against drugs. He gives responses that are calculated to a degree that will convince the listener he is clean. Most pro athletes do this. Take a look at what the PED's do and how he's improved. It is more than questionable. When Wiggins posts ALL his blood results and full physiological data and stops kissing the known dopers asses, then and only then, will what you typed lanternrouge be applicable. You can try to unhinge the right to question, but it is a universal freedom. Which is all I did. In future listen to riders words, document (file in your head) and when another statement or performance is given you can correlate, critique and when something smells wrong....question!

Since when does a rider have to change teams to take drugs? Is this the same clean garmin that wants to sign a certain spanish rider of dubious at best peurto history?

To answer the first question, a rider doesn't have to change teams, but my point was more direct. Garmin at least deserve an iota of removal of doubt in terms of validity. Given this, it is quite reasonable for a person to think that if there is the slightest hope Garmin aren't hoodwinking a gullible public (this bit isn't up for debate) that if Wiggin expects to back up his goals he will need more than they can give medically and pharmacologically. Second question. JV has been on this forum. His bluff has already been called. If Astana lose their license (they don't deserve to but most likely will) Contador will leave and for Caisse d'Epargne, not Garmin. The logic behind such a hypothetical move should it materialise is crystal clear IF you have a brain. Figure it out for yourself.

Not content with smearing wiggins good name and reputation you are also suggesting that to kick start this tour winning doping programme he wants to go to Sky who are anti doping in the strictist sense.

Yes and the team is masterminded by the same genius Englishman/Scot/Welsh Brit who brought home 8 gold 4 silver and 2 bronze in Beijing. You are gullible. For the record...the team was set up by and will be led primarily by aussies...with an aussie backer. But it sounds better if it has a pommie twang.

I for one hope that several law suits are winging their way to you as we speak.

You obviously have not read my previous posts. I know more about the law than you could squish into you brain in two lifetimes. Nice try, I'm trembling in my boots. Pro riders and teams couldn't give a stuff about what is typed and posted in online forums. Except when it interrupts their marketing and PR message, then they pop up for a second and throw in a curve ball for the unweary and naive posters.

For those who wondered, Wiggins was chucking a hissy fit in the ITT. Sour grapes for underperforming with his knock directed at Larsson. Fits in well with a gloablly accepted British stereotype. Why he felt the need to bag Garmin at the time is beyond me, but given the cumulative weight of his entire carrer, I would not be shocked if he got a sniff after France and thinks he is good enough to get more...albeit with some help.

The only type of rider I will throw my support entirely behind in a "I'm clean" sense is the one who comes out and says what most on the clinic suspect. 'Cycling is dirty, my competitors are more than likely dirty and I believe such and such is dirty'... we mostly only hear French riders say this. Cadel dodged such a question yesterday..."It's not my place." I ask whose place is it then, after the aussie media applied the phrase "accepted clean rider"? IF he is clean why can't he answer the question?

 

[BroDeal]

It is like I stepped through a time warp. Remember Ullrich fans denying that he could be doping because he was so talented even as they denounced the obvious doping of Armstrong? Or American fans deying that Hamtilton doped because he was such a nice guy? Are British and Australian fans are the latest incarnation of this cluelessness or the last bastion of naivete?

 

[Galic Ho]

It is like I stepped through a time warp. Remember Ullrich fans denying that he could be doping because he was so talented even as they denounced the obvious doping of Armstrong? Or American fans deying that Hamtilton doped because he was such a nice guy? Are British and Australian fans are the latest incarnation of this cluelessness or the last bastion of naivete?

Yes I suspect as much. I'm Australian but under no illusions. I prefer reality over fantsay though. Looking at the elected politicians in Australia and the UK I'm not surprised at the cluelessness transferring to competitive sports.

 

[blackcat]

The only type of rider I will throw my support entirely behind in a "I'm clean" sense is the one who comes out and says what most on the clinic suspect. 'Cycling is dirty, my competitors are more than likely dirty and I believe such and such is dirty'... we mostly only hear French riders say this. Cadel dodged such a question yesterday..."It's not my place." I ask whose place is it then, after the aussie media applied the phrase "accepted clean rider"? IF he is clean why can't he answer the question?

+1 good post GH.

 

[Anonymous]

My thoughts? You are an idiot. Completer and utter tosh!

So the rider who is one of the most outspoken about doping and who is willing to provide blood profiles from last 10 years is wanting to start doping?

Since when does a rider have to change teams to take drugs? Is this the same clean garmin that wants to sign a certain spanish rider of dubious at best peurto history?

Not content with smearing wiggins good name and reputation you are also suggesting that to kick start this tour winning doping programme he wants to go to Sky who are anti doping in the strictist sense.

I for one hope that several law suits are winging their way to you as we speak.

Awsome.

Do you have any thoughts about Lance Armstrong riding clean?

I hear Team Shack are going to be anti doping in the strictist sense also!

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

Says the one who posts with such anger and vitriol himself.

Ah the hypocrisy.

Posts in bold from yourself. And you talk about me spewing venom. Different posts are numbered.

(1) Because the only people who give any credence to L2L and the rest of the libellous venom spewed out by Walsh, Ballester, Kimmage and the like are the sordid conspiracy theorists and LA haters who make up this forum. Get a life!!

(2) This is forum mostly made up of sad people who hate excellence, probably because they are not willing or able to work hard enough to achieve it themselves
(3)You, as well as most of your libellous conspiracy theorists who dominate this forum, do not know what you are talking about, as usual
(4) I feel sorry for sordid haters like you who do all of their thinking from a much lower part of their anatomy.
(5) Although it is dominated by libellous conspiracy theorists who hate excellence.
(6) It may surprise you and the rest of the Armstrong haters on this forum.
(7) People who use a combination of half truths, innuendo, and absolute falsehoods to trash anyone who achieves excellence deserve nothing better. I calls them the way I sees them!!!
(8) In order to do that I would have to reprint nearly everything you and the rest of the LA haters have been printing since I had the misfortune to come upon this forum.
(9) but most of them are like me who have better things to do with their time than waste it arguing with people like you who hate excellence and believe everyone who has achieved it is a cheat. I happened on to this forum and was so disgusted that I felt considerably better having told you what I thought of you.


By the way, you talk about your misfortune at finding this forum, and how your first post would be your last, why are you still here then?

And who was writing this originally? Was it you Digger?

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

Care to back that up with an argument? Or are you another British sook? Have a go at the aussie riders if you feel the need. I don't have blind patriotic vitriol (not that you do) but take a swing of if you feel.

The only type of rider I will throw my support entirely behind in a "I'm clean" sense is the one who comes out and says what most on the clinic suspect. 'Cycling is dirty, my competitors are more than likely dirty and I believe such and such is dirty'... we mostly only hear French riders say this. Cadel dodged such a question yesterday..."It's not my place." I ask whose place is it then, after the aussie media applied the phrase "accepted clean rider"? IF he is clean why can't he answer the question?

And Cunego and Gerdeamann

 

[Digger]

And who was writing this originally? Was it you Digger?

Oldnell wrote those posts.

 

[Mambo95]

The only type of rider I will throw my support entirely behind in a "I'm clean" sense is the one who comes out and says what most on the clinic suspect. 'Cycling is dirty, my competitors are more than likely dirty and I believe such and such is dirty'... we mostly only hear French riders say this. Cadel dodged such a question yesterday..."It's not my place." I ask whose place is it then, after the aussie media applied the phrase "accepted clean rider"? IF he is clean why can't he answer the question?

What, like this?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/ot...-I-felt-like-smacking-Moreni-failed-test.html

and this

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/ot...45/Wiggins-I-considered-quitting-cycling.html


I can't remember any current riders saying it in stronger than that. And as for you wish of riders pointing fingers at other riders - they're public figures not anonymous keyboard warriors. They need evidence to back them up or they'll get sued.

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

Oldnell wrote those posts.

Thanks alot. It made it possible for me to write him a private message. Now he wont disturpe us anymore. Just told this guy he should go home and find a life. I really wonder how this naive guy made it to be a pilot. Maybe with the fanboy style: much a$$ kissing to get a job.

 

[Galic Ho]

What, like this?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/ot...-I-felt-like-smacking-Moreni-failed-test.html

and this

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/ot...45/Wiggins-I-considered-quitting-cycling.html


I can't remember any current riders saying it in stronger than that. And as for you wish of riders pointing fingers at other riders - they're public figures not anonymous keyboard warriors. They need evidence to back them up or they'll get sued.

Did you read a word I typed? Did you understand the underlying logic? Why post articles that demonstrate the mentality of cycling soo well? Wiggins is upset about Cofidis being sent home. A handfull of riders ruining the tour. It just as likely he's upset the dopers were lazy and were caught, hence why I typed what I did. But nice try, whingeing after the matter really proves beyond a shadow of a doubt you really hate doping. In fact one line of thinking I considered indicates that perhaps this is what spurred Wiggins recent success...can't beat em, so join em. Oh and he is now light years ahead of where he was at Cofidis...he was ordinary then.

Also I stated earlier I have a well versed understanding of the law. If a rider comes out and does what I suggested they won't be sued. I only stated they needed to suggest and question (won't get you sued successfully otherwise L'Equippe would be out of business and LeMond/Walsh/Kimmage would never comment). It comes down to the definition of the vocabulary used, saying "you are" is not the same as "it may be." A concrete statement such as "LA is doping and a fraud" whould land you in trouble, but raising a question or two to uncover suspicious behaviour....that just annoys people who are dirty.

To FoxxyBrown1111, Cunego and Gerdemann should be added to the French. Thanks.

 

[flicker]

Excuse me

Hey Ulrich Hamilton Vino Uniballer all awesome. Really have enjoyed watchin them. Even Simeoni Di Luca Floyd Iban Mayo Zabel etc.very enertaining.
Couldn't stand Pantani and Ricco though.

 

[pataphysician]

Also I stated earlier I have a well versed understanding of the law. If a rider comes out and does what I suggested they won't be sued. I only stated they needed to suggest and question (won't get you sued successfully otherwise L'Equippe would be out of business and LeMond/Walsh/Kimmage would never comment). It comes down to the definition of the vocabulary used, saying "you are" is not the same as "it may be." A concrete statement such as "LA is doping and a fraud" whould land you in trouble, but raising a question or two to uncover suspicious behaviour....that just annoys people who are dirty.

You might not get sued successfully, but as LA threatened mike anderson he will start world war 3. And since he has the biggest war chest, he can bleed any rider out with lawyer fees. not to mention the fact that omerta is real, and if you can't get along with the peloton, you can't be a successful rider.

Plus saying that the only reason you lost is that the competition cheats is unsportsmanlike. it sounds petty and that is part of the reason many people don't take lemond seriously, when he talks you can hear the jealousy and bitterness as if it is less important to clean the sport and more important that he get credit for being a better rider. I could see a rider calling for more serious penalties and working to change the culture, but calling out a rider who just beat you rings of sour grapes (even if you know they cheated).

it is a much more difficult balancing act than you seem to think, and if that is what you expect from a clean rider i think you will be dissappointed in cycling for a long time.

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

A concrete statement such as "LA is doping and a fraud" whould land you in trouble, but raising a question or two to uncover suspicious behaviour....that just annoys people who are dirty.

To FoxxyBrown1111, Cunego and Gerdemann should be added to the French. Thanks.

Yeah thats why Epo-Lance is crying all the time, lately when the danish blood expert uncovered him.

I wonder what will happen when he gets real flak from the opposition in his political career. They will hold nothing back and finally Epo-Lance will be brought down to earth.

 

[gillan1969]

Yeah thats why Epo-Lance is crying all the time, lately when the danish blood expert uncovered him.

I wonder what will happen when he gets real flak from the opposition in his political career. They will hold nothing back and finally Epo-Lance will be brought down to earth.

what?

Like Schwarzeneggar?

 

[Galic Ho]

You might not get sued successfully, but as LA threatened mike anderson he will start world war 3. And since he has the biggest war chest, he can bleed any rider out with lawyer fees. not to mention the fact that omerta is real, and if you can't get along with the peloton, you can't be a successful rider.

Plus saying that the only reason you lost is that the competition cheats is unsportsmanlike. it sounds petty and that is part of the reason many people don't take lemond seriously, when he talks you can hear the jealousy and bitterness as if it is less important to clean the sport and more important that he get credit for being a better rider. I could see a rider calling for more serious penalties and working to change the culture, but calling out a rider who just beat you rings of sour grapes (even if you know they cheated).

it is a much more difficult balancing act than you seem to think, and if that is what you expect from a clean rider i think you will be dissappointed in cycling for a long time.

The lawsuit part. Lance can't risk going to court against a great number of people, the evidence brought against him would tarnish his public image. The courts would look at all of it. Plenty of people would line up if given the chance. Note how most of his cases are settled out of court with binding no talk agreements. For example, the SCA case was a contract law dispute, not a liabel defamation case.

I'll agree with the omerta part. I don't expect that the balancing act from a clean rider...I only wanted to highlight that it goes a long way to improving credibility. I agree with the unsportsmanlike behaviour, but only if you don't have substantial grounds to believe a rider is doping. If you do, well thats up to the individual at hand to differentiate. As for the LeMond bit...WTF?

LeMond won the Tour three times and the world championship twice. Lance never beat LeMond, as far as I know they never raced. There was a tiny overlap in their careers. Greg has to mention his own specimen and history because it was soo good. Very few people can achieve what he did, albeit cleanly. How else can he make comparisons with power outputs, VO2ma etc, unless he has a relative idea on how to compare (which his achievements and limits are guide guidelines)? It makes sense to remind people what cyclists could achieve naturally in the 1980's before epo. Given this misinterpretation of LeMond, what do you think of Hinault who unashamedly sprouts his own glory? Bitter he got old? Or knew what he wanted and lived it?

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

what?

Like Schwarzeneggar?

Yes in Texas, there he can unite with George W.

He is soooo arrogant, that he dont see the danger of his behaving. He made too much errors. Latley he took off his blood profiles from his hompage and refused the re-tests of 1999. What does that say to his enemies and critics?

One Day a liar like him will fall big time, because they all confuse their stories.