World Championships and Olympic medals for the whole team in RR

[just some guy]

Was thinking about this strange situation. Which I might have wrong.

After the WC RR and Olympics we have Gold, Silver, Bronze but as we saw yesterday while Cav won team GB did a huge amount of work it could even be argued that Cummings, Stanard, Wiggins and Millar worked harder than Cav.

Should they not get a medal or do they and I have it wrong.

In relays people than run/swim/ski the heats but don´t run the final get a medal, not presented on TV but they get one.

Team sports also as long as you played a few minutes.

So 1st a question does the team get medals and listed behind the team leader as part of the winning team and if not why not.

 

[cineteq]

Separate medals for the best teams, or the best team would be a nice recognition. Yesterday GB and Belgium were the best teams.

 

[ramjambunath]

On a course like yesterday, the whole GBR team deserves recognition it's not often that you have a Worlds RR as flat as that where the team basically places a rider on the podium. The previous few champions didn't dovetail their team mates and pounce in the end.

 

[just some guy]

On a course like yesterday, the whole GBR team deserves recognition it's not often that you have a Worlds RR as flat as that where the team basically places a rider on the podium. The previous few champions didn't dovetail their team mates and pounce in the end.

But it is a team sport - just one person crosses the line - it is just a weird one

 

[spalco]

I agree with the whole team getting medals, especially at the Olympics but only if all teams are allowed to have the same number of riders. England doesn't get to field 13 players vs Albania's 7 in soccer only because they've had greater success in the past either. If it's a team sport, then put all teams on an equal footing.

 

[just some guy]

I agree with the whole team getting medals, especially at the Olympics but only if all teams are allowed to have the same number of riders. England doesn't get to field 13 players vs Albania's 7 in soccer only because they've had greater success in the past either. If it's a team sport, then put all teams on an equal footing.

Teams of 6 for all nations with the more jnr nations having to qualify maybe

 

[rickshaw]

well.... yeah!

As far as I know, cycling is the only TEAM sport where just one team member is declaired "The Winner".... probably due to historical reasons and because it is a race and only one person can cross the line first to "win". Just another reason why I feel the WC title is so third rate.

 

[scullster46]

it does make sense to a degree because it is a team sport, but the issue arises when you have a situation where you have two teammates on the medal stand. Also, it still is an individual race, so how are the individual winners going to stand out from the rest of the team?

 

[spalco]

it does make sense to a degree because it is a team sport, but the issue arises when you have a situation where you have two teammates on the medal stand. Also, it still is an individual race, so how are the individual winners going to stand out from the rest of the team?

I guess to be consistent the second team mate's medal would fall to the next nation in line, so if it's
1.) Italy
2.) France
3.) Italy
4.) Germany

The german team would get bronze.

 

[just some guy]

it does make sense to a degree because it is a team sport, but the issue arises when you have a situation where you have two teammates on the medal stand. Also, it still is an individual race, so how are the individual winners going to stand out from the rest of the team?

Good point had not thought of that

In the record Books Cav would still be the winner and wear the stripes for the year but in brackets the GB team would be listed.

The rest would not receive the medal in public but as recognition of the team mate winning.

 

[ramjambunath]

This is the only sport though where the whole team works for an individual unlike other sports in which it is the other way around.

This year I believe GBR require some recognition for their efforts. But what if Goss had won yesterday on the line, though GBR had done a bulk of the workload.

I personally would like to see the system of qualification changed, Hushovd shouldnt be disadvantaged just because he is Norwegian. How they will change it though is another question.

 

[Ragerod]

I personally would like to see the system of qualification changed, Hushovd shouldnt be disadvantaged just because he is Norwegian. How they will change it though is another question.

That's life. Even if Norway had a bigger team, they simply don't have enough riders of the calibre required to make an impact at this level.

Giving smaller nations bigger teams would have to be off-set by reducing the size of the bigger nations teams that would have nine guys capable of contributing and possibly of winning medals from a breakaway.

I don't want Norway to get the same allocation of riders as Spain just to even the chances of the team leader. At least a dozen Spanish riders have earned the opportunity to ride the world championships, whilst Norway have less than a handful.

 

[hatcher]

Some kind of official recognition might be nice, but reading quotes/tweets from the 7 "other" riders on the team they all feel like world champions anyway.

 

[El Pistolero]

I agree with the whole team getting medals, especially at the Olympics but only if all teams are allowed to have the same number of riders. England doesn't get to field 13 players vs Albania's 7 in soccer only because they've had greater success in the past either. If it's a team sport, then put all teams on an equal footing.

Teams of 4 people seems good.

 

[just some guy]

Some kind of official recognition might be nice, but reading quotes/tweets from the 7 "other" riders on the team they all feel like world champions anyway.

Not today they don´t.

Millar - a pig sh@t in my head

 

[ramjambunath]

Norway definitely don't have enough riders that can make an impact. I definitely want to see the best riders taking part in the worlds but on a course such as this do Cav Goss and Greipel, whose mates were controlling the race not breaking away (then again if the course was better and a bit more challenging) really deserve such a massive numerical advantage over a rival (I'm not a fanboy, his was the first name that sprung up wrt small teams). But I have no answer as to what should be done to improve qualification.

 

[The Hitch]

I have always strongly argued for team recognition.

I think when a rider collects his victory in a gt or a world championship, his team should be allowed onto the podium with him, just to recognise the job they have done.

Afterwards he still gets the photo shots with 2nd and 3rd place, and the shots with other jersey winners and all the press, but the team is aknowledged with more than just a new wrist watch.

 

[just some guy]

I have always strongly argued for team recognition.

I think when a rider collects his victory in a gt or a world championship, his team should be allowed onto the podium with him, just to recognise the job they have done.

Afterwards he still gets the photo shots with 2nd and 3rd place, and the shots with other jersey winners and all the press, but the team is aknowledged with more than just a new wrist watch.

I do see your point but trade teams is a bit like a job - you get bonus , and all the other internal stuff.

WC and the Olympics be a great thing in 30 year for Stannard, Cummings to show the grand kids - Got this Gold media for helping Cav win the WC.

I guess the same could be said of the Tour.

The workers seem to be getting less and less from cycling - no points less money and chance to sign for teams etc etc

 

[Ragerod]

I'm strongly for some recognition but I wouldn't have it in the form of a replica medal.

Using a football analogy, I would equate the gold medal to the Champions League trophy and then award smaller medals or plaques to the other riders, the DS, the mechanics and soigneurs, i.e. everyone that contributed to win within reason.

 

[scullster46]

I have always strongly argued for team recognition.

I think when a rider collects his victory in a gt or a world championship, his team should be allowed onto the podium with him, just to recognise the job they have done.

Afterwards he still gets the photo shots with 2nd and 3rd place, and the shots with other jersey winners and all the press, but the team is aknowledged with more than just a new wrist watch.

I agree with this, the team should at least be allowed to do some type of victory lap, as well as have a team podium shot. They already let podium finishers bring their kids onto the podium, no harm in letting the team on their.

For the most part I feel that these issues could be fairly easily dealt with in GT's, Classics and WC's. However a bigger issue arises when it comes to the Olympics. There is so much history and tradition there that you can't just make up your own policies regarding medals and ceremonies. No matter what, an individual still wins the race, just as in track or swimming. When an individual wins in the OG, only 1 medal is given to them. If you allowed the rest of the team to receive them, it sets a precedent. Why doesn't the coach get a medal, or the DS, or the mechanics. It's just simpler with the one medal, not to mention the previous fact I stated about what happens if two teammates medal.

OP is certainly right regarding the fact that the team often isn't given enough credit. But there are still other ways to thank them then changing how we dole out medals. Once you receive the medal, it's yours, and you can do with it what you like. One of the greatest examples of sportsmanship was when Emil Zatopek gave Ron Clarke one of his gold medals. There is nothing stopping Cav from giving Wiggins or another teammate his medal.

 

[goggalor]

Uh, no. Part of being a good team player is sacrificing your own chances for another rider.

And team competitions are always frustratingly dull and pointless anyway. Think Garmin/Radioshack at the Tour, who end up riding specifically to win the team comp. It just makes them looks stupid.

 

[Thomsena]

Yesterday was an example of how a whole team actually did more than the captain himself. But that's not really the typical way it goes is it? It would seem a bit wierd if someone had won a surprising victory and had his whole team with him on the podium in which 3-4 riders had done nothing but just racing the race in their own pace. How about the mechanics, coach and so on. Should they be there as well. I do see a point though. But Cav is one of the best around to acknowledge his team mates and i'm sure that was good enough for them. They'll get their bonuses anyway (I think..)

 

[Eyeballs Out]

I personally would like to see the system of qualification changed, Hushovd shouldnt be disadvantaged just because he is Norwegian. How they will change it though is another question.

I wonder if it's time to do away with the traditional country allocations and instead pool some countries together

All teams would have the same number of riders so you'd scrap the whole yearly qualifying business

As well as the usual squads having their full allocation (Italy, Spain, France, Germany, Belgium, Netherlands) you could have Scandinavia, GB & Ireland, North America, South America, Africa, Asia, Oceania, Central Europe (Swi, Lux, Austria), Eastern Europe. Or whatever. Review on an annual basis

OK I realise that half these pooled countries hate each other and it will never happen but team selections would be interesting and it would be a much better race

 

[pmcg76]

Team assistance differs from year to year, obviously GB played a huge part in Cavendish winning as did Italy in 02 but usually teams play a lesser part in the individual victories than these freak years. Not saying teams arent important, just that they are not normally as important. I would say yesterday was 99% Team GB and 1% Cavendish whilst normally it would be something like 30-50% teamwork and the rest down to the individual winner.

Hell, Cipo was rarely good enough to make the Italian Worlds team but for 02 he was preselected, given the official leaders role and the rest of the team was then selected to ride for Cipo. That never happened with Italy.

What happens when someone like Vainsteins wins, who gets the team prize, Latvia???

 

[El Pistolero]

Team assistance differs from year to year, obviously GB played a huge part in Cavendish winning as did Italy in 02 but usually teams play a lesser part in the individual victories than these freak years. Not saying teams arent important, just that they are not normally as important. I would say yesterday was 99% Team GB and 1% Cavendish whilst normally it would be something like 30-50% teamwork and the rest down to the individual winner.

Hell, Cipo was rarely good enough to make the Italian Worlds team but for 02 he was preselected, given the official leaders role and the rest of the team was then selected to ride for Cipo. That never happened with Italy.

What happens when someone like Vainsteins wins, who gets the team prize, Latvia???

Lithuania.