World Politics

[Hugh Januss]

That kind of envy is an ugly thing.

 

[rhubroma]

The USA is a beautiful country of fine people. Always the envy of the world, it's now attracting pity. That is so awful.

As TFF writes, the right-wing escalation is scary and undermines the free-thinking, tolerant democratic example the USA has set for the other countries of the world. I hope you guys can get it together and be a nation of people with shared values and a collective sense of prosperity once again. We only mock you because we need you.

Please excuse my earlier facetiousness, it was directed at the hawks.

Where do you see the legacy of US tollerance for the rest of the so called world to emulate? Manifest Destiny, so called? Slavery? The KKK? Jim Crow laws? Sacco and Vanzetti executions? McCarthyism? Mussadeq's assassination? Pinchet's golp in Chile with CIA backing? Bishop Rumero's execution at the high altar for making an alliance with the communists of El Savador, again with CIA support? Allowing the Sicilian mafia into the US in exchange for allowing it to control the Sicilian vote during the Cold War? Student anti-Vietnam war protests? The Christian right? The Neocon ideology? Corporate conformatism?

As if democratic thought were its own patent and not a historical product of the Enlightenment philosophies which the American colonies inherited after practically extinguishing the continent's native population.

Sounds like a rather self-serving rhetorical and ideological myth to me. A fairy tale, which has been undoutedly the most enchanting one we ever heard as children.

 

[CycloErgoSum]

Where do you see the legacy of US tollerance for the rest of the so called world to emulate? Manifest Destiny, so called? Slavery? The KKK? Jim Crow laws? Sacco and Vanzetti executions? McCarthyism? Mussadeq's assassination? Pinchet's golp in Chile with CIA backing? Bishop Rumero's execution at the high altar for making an alliance with the communists of El Savador, again with CIA support? Allowing the Sicilian mafia into the US in exchange for allowing it to control the Sicilian vote during the Cold War? Student anti-Vietnam war protests? The Christian right? The Neocon ideology? Corporate conformatism?

As if democratic thought were its own patent and not a historical product of the Enlightenment philosophies which the American colonies inherited after practically extinguishing the continent's native population.

Sounds like a rather self-serving rhetorical and ideological myth to me. A fairy tale, which has been undoutedly the most enchanting one we ever heard as children.

Touche

Good points one and all. Politics is a dirty game and the USA's administrations have been exponents of real politik. I was channeling the inclusive cultural movements of moderate American people as worthy of championing.

 

[Anonymous]

No, no I don't think you've overestimated me much if any. On a 10 scale, I doubt I've ever ascended above a 3 or 4 on your respect-o-meter anyways.

No, as far as respect, I have given you plenty. I may not agree with you, but that does not mean I have no respect for you. I think you are confusing me with someone else.

I'm not defending that activity you mention above, if in fact it happened (and I'd like to see some evidence that it happened other than someone's word that I don't trust). BTW, did you see the upstanding leftists at the Canadian University in Ottawa when Ann Coulter was invited to lecture there? There is vidoetape of it if you care to see how seriously your side takes free speech (yeah, I realize it's Canada and the same rules don't completely apply).

The brick thrown through the window of Slaughter's window is physical proof. There were actually pictures of that on TV.

As for comparing those things to the reception of a media pundit who spews hate with her every word. Please tell me you can see the difference here in her and a REPRESENTATIVE OF THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT.

What was your reaction in the immediate aftermath of the Oklahoma City bombing when our sitting President attempted to blame right-wing talk radio, i.e., Rush Limbaugh? You really going to say this is all a one way street?

Um...THE OKLAHOMA CITY BOMBING WAS UNDERTAKEN BY A RIGHT WINGED NUTJOB. So were THE BOMBINGS IN ATALNTA DURING THE OLYMPICS AND AFTERWARD AT AN ABORTION CLINIC.

Rush Limbaugh and Coulter and Beck and Hannity and Rove make money off of over the top hyperbole. The problem is that CLEARLY, there are morons out there who don't know that it is HYPERBOLE and not REALITY, and they act on the hate spewed by those people. It would be more effective if the correction to that CAME FROM YOUR SIDE OF THE POLITICAL SPECTRUM.

AlGore screams (about Bush) "HE BETRAYED OUR COUNTRY!! HE PREYED ON OUR FEARS!!!" I never heard anything like outrage from those on the left. Nope, quite the opposite in fact. The left's verbal abuse of Sarah Palin, Karl Rove, **** Cheney? Daily Kos, Huffington Post... ever heard of them? CNN comparing the right-wing to nazis... on and on.

I am sorry, I missed Gore saying that DURING A SESSION OF CONGRESS WHILE BUSH WAS SPEAKING.

I highlited a few of your comments. Have you seen me write anything close to that towards you? Now maybe you don't mean me in particular but I think I've establish that I am a conservative so when you talk about right-wing nutjobs I can only assume you mean it, at least in part if not in total, personally. This shit is hurled at conservatives every single day. Then a couple of idiots get riled up and out of line and give a little back at your side suddenly your sensibilities are inflamed?

I didn't mean you in particular. In fact, I was not referring to you at all. However, if you feel persecuted, I would suggest a simple solution: If you don't like insults thrown at you, maybe help clean up your side of the street in regards to throwing insults and then wait and see if the rhetoric coming your way changes.

Civility in American politics has been dead for a long, long time and it ain't ever coming back.

Make sure you do nothing to change that Scott. It seems that nobody in your party is willing to change things, so let them continue to escalate. Tell you what, I promise to speak out against any incident of Democratic vandalism and brick throwing and homophobic rhetoric thrown at Republicans and bombings of buildings and insults yelled at sessions of Congress and racial epithets yelled at Republicans and instances of people suggesting a Republican is Hiter or the Anti-Christ in the future. I never said those things in the past, and never did any of those things, and I voted for Bush the first time and I actually did think the Bush=Hitler stuff was stupid, but hey, you keep justifying the violence and rage being hurled by people on your side of the isle by saying "they did it first."

 

[rhubroma]

Touche

Good points one and all. Politics is a dirty game and the USA's administrations have been exponents of real politik. I was channeling the inclusive cultural movements of moderate American people as worthy of championing.[/QUOTE

We must always distinguish between the myth and the reality, even when doing so casts everything we have ever held dear, literally everything, into a ghastly and and unseamly light.

Just think of the photo of Einstein sticking his tongue out, mocking us all. I can no longer visualize Einstein without his toung sticking out, CycloErgoSum. I can't think of Einstein without his tongue, that cunning, malignant tongue, just as I can't see America without the CIA and its realpolitik. And I can only see Churchill with his lower lip distrustfully thrust forward. The likelyhood is that Einstein only once stuck his tongue out in that cunning, malignant manner, and that Churchill only once thrust his lower lip forward in such an expression of distrust, on the occasion when that particular photo was taken. Yet when I read Churchill's writings, CES, I constantly see him with his lower lip thrust forward, and when I read something by Einstein, I'm completely obsessed with his tongue, stuck out at the whole world, at the whole universe. I even fancy that it was not Churchill who wrote his memoirs, but his distrustfully prominent lower lip, not Einstein who made those earth shattering pronouncements, but his malignantly protruding tongue. In the same vein, I find it impossible to see the wholesome, so-called, America, without seeing Sacco and Vanzetti criminally strapped to the electric chair, or that horrific and shameful photo of the Iraq prisoner with that ghastly black hood and mantel and with electrical wires affixed to his limbs.

 

[Anonymous]

No, as far as respect, I have given you plenty. I may not agree with you, but that does not mean I have no respect for you. I think you are confusing me with someone else.



The brick thrown through the window of Slaughter's window is physical proof. There were actually pictures of that on TV.

As for comparing those things to the reception of a media pundit who spews hate with her every word. Please tell me you can see the difference here in her and a REPRESENTATIVE OF THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT.



Um...THE OKLAHOMA CITY BOMBING WAS UNDERTAKEN BY A RIGHT WINGED NUTJOB. So were THE BOMBINGS IN ATALNTA DURING THE OLYMPICS AND AFTERWARD AT AN ABORTION CLINIC.

Rush Limbaugh and Coulter and Beck and Hannity and Rove make money off of over the top hyperbole. The problem is that CLEARLY, there are morons out there who don't know that it is HYPERBOLE and not REALITY, and they act on the hate spewed by those people. It would be more effective if the correction to that CAME FROM YOUR SIDE OF THE POLITICAL SPECTRUM.



I am sorry, I missed Gore saying that DURING A SESSION OF CONGRESS WHILE BUSH WAS SPEAKING.



I didn't mean you in particular. In fact, I was not referring to you at all. However, if you feel persecuted, I would suggest a simple solution: If you don't like insults thrown at you, maybe help clean up your side of the street in regards to throwing insults and then wait and see if the rhetoric coming your way changes.



Make sure you do nothing to change that Scott. It seems that nobody in your party is willing to change things, so let them continue to escalate. Tell you what, I promise to speak out against any incident of Democratic vandalism and brick throwing and homophobic rhetoric thrown at Republicans and bombings of buildings and insults yelled at sessions of Congress and racial epithets yelled at Republicans and instances of people suggesting a Republican is Hiter or the Anti-Christ in the future. I never said those things in the past, and never did any of those things, and I voted for Bush the first time and I actually did think the Bush=Hitler stuff was stupid, but hey, you keep justifying the violence and rage being hurled by people on your side of the isle by saying "they did it first."

My overarching point is this back-and-forth rhetoric is not even close to a one way street. That regrettable stuff happens by the infirm on the right is hardly unique.

It seems no one in my party is willing to change things? Your perception. BTW, I've never done or said any of the hateful stuff either and I stated in my earlier post that I don't, in any way, condone or support it. But I'm more than a little surprised that someone like you is surprised. That is all.


EDIT: My point with Clinton after the OK City bombing was that he chose to lash out at the right and in particular talk radio without lashing out at the killer. Political points can be scored at all times and never let a crisis go to waste, or so says Rahm Emanuel. There are extremes on both sides but only the stuff coming from the crazies on the right seems to be a problem.

 

[scribe]

This what rebuplicans have brought to the legislative table so far this presidential cycle. Good luck on selling that back in your districts....

 

[fatandfast]

When is Rush Limbaugh going to leave? Oxicontin is available everywhere so the possibilities are endless

 

[Oncearunner8]

When Republican lawmakers have to walk through a throng of ignorant nutjobs and have racial insults and spit hurled at them, I will see the correlation. (how would Bush have ever known about opposing views, he created "Free Speech Zones" 2 miles away from any of his appearances?) Past that, it doesn't surprise me that cowards on the right don't want to confront the ugly truth of their lies an distortions. See, when you spout historically ignorant, apocalyptic rhetoric, morons with guns and a hate for anyone different from them get kind of dangerous. I actually thought you would have the courage to speak against that kind of stupidity. I guess I overestimated you?

I heard about that also. What I could actually get from the news was that, a handful of people calling themselves anti-HC reform bill crossed the line of civility. That is always the threat or fear that an actual cause for some will allow crazed fools to hijack the cause.

There is much talk about this is the beginning of the second revolution etc. I have received numerous emails on President Obama’s attempt to take “my weapons”. It is all rhetoric and nerve racking for me.

I had a discussion with someone about the HC bill and a few things that we know is in it. One interesting discussion was about the fines attached if someone does not get HC. My first reaction to that is “what a stupid thing to add to this bill” they can not possibly enforce this????? But a friend of mine made a good argument that I was swayed by. He said that the very people who refuse to pay for HC now will one day want that very HC to provide for them but yet they never once paid into the system. Also in order for this HC bill to work it would require for all of us to pay into the system to bring the overall cost down. How is that a bad thing? I can not see what is so wrong with that

 

[Anonymous]

This what rebuplicans have brought to the legislative table so far this presidential cycle. Good luck on selling that back in your districts....

Yes. To the left, horrendously bad legislation is far better than none at all. You see VP Biden's comments regarding the failure to pass this HC bill?

Although President Obama repeatedly said he had no idea how health care politics would play out, Vice President Joe Biden told a fundraising audience Wednesday the White House would have been doomed without it.

"If we were unable to move the ball on this issue, not only in the political sense might we be dead," Biden said, according to the pool report filed on the event. "But in terms of being able to deal with other major issues on our plate, we would've been done. Absolutely done."

Blank page indeed.

 

[buckwheat]

When is Rush Limbaugh going to leave? Oxicontin is available everywhere so the possibilities are endless

His "threat" to leave shows just how out of touch with reality these people are.

 

[scribe]

Yes. To the left, horrendously bad legislation is far better than none at all. You see VP Biden's comments regarding the failure to pass this HC bill?




Blank page indeed.

Do you actually believe what you type? Or are you just brainwashed into believing all the hysteria and droned into passing along the message?

 

[BroDeal]

Yes. To the left, horrendously bad legislation is far better than none at all.

The right had eight years to pass with their own solution. They did nothing except shovel hundreds of billions of dollars to their buddies in the defense industry.

You snooze, you lose.

 

[usedtobefast]

When is Rush Limbaugh going to leave? Oxicontin is available everywhere so the possibilities are endless

I'll give him a ride to the border, no problem.

 

[Anonymous]

Do you actually believe what you type? Or are you just brainwashed into believing all the hysteria and droned into passing along the message?

Gee, I pretty much think the same thing when you post something.

In an effort to restore civility back into the body politic, I have highlighted a few words you may want to reconsider using in the future.

Thanks.

 

[Anonymous]

The right had eight years to pass with their own solution. They did nothing except shovel hundreds of billions of dollars to their buddies in the defense industry.

You snooze, you lose.

While I still have a belief in the need for an extremely strong National Defense, I can't really argue with this.

Obama inherited a bad economic situation and has made it much worse. And what is now considered a bad economy will become the new normal because the average joe (who is struggling now) will not have much in the way of discretionary income 8 to 10 years from now and I sincerely doubt we will see unemployment below 6 or 7 percent in the forseeable future. The National Sales Tax will surely keep a buttload of money out of the hands of those who earned and would spend it.

Soc Sec is now paying out more than it's taking in (something like 7 years earlier than predicted just 3 years ago). So what do we do? Enact a new entitlement.

Alas, it will be just like Europe. And we will be well liked.

Hell, even Castro is applauding the Dems.

 

[scribe]

Obama inherited a bad economic situation and has made it much worse.

Anyone make it past this sentence without rolling their eyes?

 

[RDV4ROUBAIX]

Anyone make it past this sentence without rolling their eyes?

Actually it doesn't matter who says what. This whole thread is a perfect example of why this country is headed down the toilet. Nobody can come to a consensus anymore because everybody is so far left or right of the political spectrum that they come off as fanatics when they speak. Maybe not their intentions, but that's just the nature of the beast lately. I relegated myself to just reading what goes on here and what people have to say, but for the most part it's nothing new or constructive, just petty arguments that doesn't do anybody any good, sorry to say.

 

[usedtobefast]

the republicans can kiss my shiny white ssa!

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

Obama inherited a bad economic situation and has made it much worse.

Truly one of the dumbest things I've read on any message board.

The republicans drove the country off the cliff and now they're blaming Obama for not preventing it from hitting the ground. I have my disagreements with Obama's administration, but that quote just reeks of cluelessness.

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

BTW, not sure this has been discussed but the rewrite of the bill today also includes an overhaul of student aid. It's about time. Great week for Obama and the country.

 

[buckwheat]

While I still have a belief in the need for an extremely strong National Defense,.

Yup, I agree. At least two years compulsory service in the military for everyone between 18 and 55.

Obama inherited a bad economic situation and has made it much worse..

I agree the stimulus should have been double what it was and that Wall St. execs and bank CEO's should have been indicted for fraud.

And what is now considered a bad economy will become the new normal because the average joe (who is struggling now)..

Other than a glimmer of hope during the Clinton years, the average Joe has been getting screwed since Reagan.

will not have much in the way of discretionary income 8 to 10 years from now

Go back 10 years and add your 10 years making 20.

and I sincerely doubt we will see unemployment below 6 or 7 percent in the forseeable future. ..

Yeah, GWB took a machine gun to the economy. A band aid ain't gonna cut it for recovery.

The National Sales Tax will surely keep a buttload of money out of the hands of those who earned and would spend it...

You guys would have us spend it on 40% increases in health care.

Soc Sec is now paying out more than it's taking in (something like 7 years earlier than predicted just 3 years ago). So what do we do? Enact a new entitlement. .

We'll tax you more. Your business is thriving based on the amount of time you spend on here.

Alas, it will be just like Europe. And we will be well liked....

Set your sights lower. At least we may eke out a place above Costa Rica in our health care ranking.

Hell, even Castro is applauding the Dems.

Probably won't get above Cuba if you guys have anything to do with it.

 

[Anonymous]

Truly one of the dumbest things I've read on any message board.
The republicans drove the country off the cliff and now they're blaming Obama for not preventing it from hitting the ground. I have my disagreements with Obama's administration, but that quote just reeks of cluelessness.

Please blaze a trail of brilliance and enumerate all of the improvements the Obama admin has accomplished so far. I double dog dare you.

Are you even remotely aware of the debt that has happened under this President? Or are you so smart you just don't care? I'm not a huge Bush fan so don't even start with that.

In a way I hope you are in your twenties. Because if you are you will spend your lifetime paying off the debt that has been heeped upon you. Best of luck with that.

You rambling about something I wrote as dumb and clueless I will gladly accept as a compliment. You don't get it now and you I'm quite sure you never will.

Conyers on camera justifying the mandatory purchase of a product by the Federal Govt by citing articles of the constitution that do not exist. Dingle talking about how long it's taken for the legislative process to get to a point where they can "control the people". Alcee Hasting talking about the HC process then quoting Thomas Edison by saying "there are no rules... we make 'em up as we go along."

I'm sure you are quite proud to be led by these folks. Congratulaions. Really.

 

[Anonymous]

BTW, not sure this has been discussed but the rewrite of the bill today also includes an overhaul of student aid. It's about time. Great week for Obama and the country.

No overhaul. It's called a take-over. You need a loan to go to school? One place to get it... it's called the Federal Bank of Uncle Sam.


Just curious, what else would you like to see Washington in control over?

 

[Anonymous]

Yup, I agree. At least two years compulsory service in the military for everyone between 18 and 55.



I agree the stimulus should have been double what it was and that Wall St. execs and bank CEO's should have been indicted for fraud.




Other than a glimmer of hope during the Clinton years, the average Joe has been getting screwed since Reagan.



Go back 10 years and add your 10 years making 20.




Yeah, GWB took a machine gun to the economy. A band aid ain't gonna cut it for recovery.



You guys would have us spend it on 40% increases in health care.



We'll tax you more. Your business is thriving based on the amount of time you spend on here.



Set your sights lower. At least we may eke out a place above Costa Rica in our health care ranking.



Probably won't get above Cuba if you guys have anything to do with it.

I agree with you about the turds on Wall St.

Do you think it's OK that Dodd and Frank are also not in jail? Not only are they not in jail, they are in charge if overhauling a financial system they were actively involved with when it collapsed. You OK with that, or are left wing elected govt officials untouchable?