Paris - Roubaix 2024, one day monument, April 7

[tobydawq]

With ever increasing average speeds for the main peloton changes are bound to be considered. What was once something sketchy can today be completely dangerous. I must admit I view Paris-Roubaix and other races in awe but it's sad if it means the ending of careers for several riders each race. That's just not acceptable.

Sure it's sad, but also completely not true.

 

[DNP-Old]

People getting angry over a chicane, but the real problem here is that today is code yellow in Roubaix for thunderstorms and heavy gusts, whilst the weekend will see only as much as a cloud. Reports even showing freaking 24 degrees on Saturday. What a joke, I hate the weather Gods. Life is unfair.

 

[dobrien]

We have Rugby League (not Union ) the toughest sport on the planet though

High-altitude winter alpine climbing: "Hold my beer". ;-)

 

[RedheadDane]

So typical, you have totally missed the point. I pointed out that once PR was tackled without helmets, to simply emphasize the difference between then and now, not to suggest it was better (or that not wearing helmets is better).

Well, excuse me. With your constant yapping on about hooooooooooooooooooooooow muuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuch beeeeeeeeeeeeeeeetterrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr things were back in the day, it was a pretty easy conclusion for me to draw that you were somehow trying to use the utter ignorance of them not wearing helmet as if it was somehow better.
The difference between then and now is that we have learned.

But here's my suggestion for all of you Sunday:
Take a long bike ride. Don't turn on the TV/streaming service. Or just leave when the "horrible race ruining moment" of them entering Arenberg is happening.
Let the rest of us enjoy the race.

 

[Extinction]

Not frowning upon, simply a part of progress. 50 years from now, people will hopefully be even smarter than we are now, and look back at the ways things are done now, shaking their heads at how stupid it is/was.

How is what you're doing any better? Constantly yapping on about how things were 50 years ago.

We aren't smarter! As surely those 50 years from now won't be any smarter than us. Evolutionary biology doesn't work that way. The human brain today is no different than the one that evolved into that of homo sapiens sapiens and when humans began exhibiting behavioral modernity about 160,000 years ago. Different eras just have different perspectives and priorities, which are based and build upon various historical developments, they are not smarter or dumber. Young lady (for you are a young lady, no?), I have had sufficient experience, which I only bring up since you refer to it as "yapping about" the past, to see things through a broader lense, which allows me to live with some irony and to crack a wry smile at your dogmatism and self-satisfied sense of "knowing better". One day, however, you'll grow up and see how silly you once were dear.

 

[ManicJack]

But here's my suggestion for all of you Sunday:
Take a long bike ride. Don't turn on the TV/streaming service. Or just leave when the "horrible race ruining moment" of them entering Arenberg is happening.
Let the rest of us enjoy the race.

Sounds like someone should simply ignore the forum.

 

[Extinction]

Well, excuse me. With your constant yapping on about hooooooooooooooooooooooow muuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuch beeeeeeeeeeeeeeeetterrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr things were back in the day, it was a pretty easy conclusion for me to draw that you were somehow trying to use the utter ignorance of them not wearing helmet as if it was somehow better.
The difference between then and now is that we have learned.

But here's my suggestion for all of you Sunday:
Take a long bike ride. Don't turn on the TV/streaming service. Or just leave when the "horrible race ruining moment" of them entering Arenberg is happening.
Let the rest of us enjoy the race.

Now were getting somewhere child.🤣

 

[RedheadDane]

Now were getting somewhere child.🤣

Thank you.

Sounds like someone should simply ignore the forum.

I suppose you're partly right.
I should just ignore all the people who have pre-emptively decided not to enjoy the race Sunday.

We aren't smarter! As surely those 50 years from now won't be any smarter than us. Evolutionary biology doesn't work that way.

I'm not talking about biology. I'm talking about knowledge. We know things today, that people didn't know 50 years ago, and hopefully 50 years from now people will know even more.

 

[Extinction]

Thank you.



I suppose you're partly right.
I should just ignore all the people who have pre-emptively decided not to enjoy the race Sunday.



I'm not talking about biology. I'm talking about knowledge. We know things today, that people didn't know 50 years ago, and hopefully 50 years from now people will know even more.

Like knowing what? If you crash and strike your head at high speed you will really hurt yourself? I'm afraid in cycling that's been known for a very, very long time, in fact since the dawn of the sport. And yet it took decades and decades before compulsory helmets were required to race. But the knowledge was there from the start, thus no new knowledge was gained. The ancient Greeks would have made a distinction between "gnosis" (knowledge), which Socrates thought was impossible for the human mind to acquire, and "techne" (technology), which is something learned from experience, trial and error, but it is not knowledge in any epistemological sense, which is only an a priori phenomenon (as in, if I fall on my bike striking my head I shall likely break it).

 

[Sciatic]

That's what I don't like about this decision: Sunday's race will be an experiment. They should try it out before the race, not during the race. The "solution" might be worse than the original problem.

That chicane looks dangerous, because the road is so narrow. There will be a snarl-up. Someone who's in the back of a big group will be half a minute behind and have a hard time coming back. So positioning will be even more important, which can lead to even more jostling.

I wonder what percentage of the riders would support this decision.

Yours is the soundest take on the whole thing. It’s crazy to make a change to a key part of the most impt one-day race of the year announced just 4 days before the race, and implemented without a trial run to see if it improves (or worsens) rider safety. Seems like grandstanding as a way to prove the organization cares about the riders.

 

[RedheadDane]

Like knowing what? If you crash and strike your head at high speed you will really hurt yourself? I'm afraid in cycling that's been known for a very, very long time, in fact since the dawn of the sport. And yet it took decades and decades before compulsory helmets were required to race.

And that's even worse; they basically had the knowledge, but still nothing was done...

Look! They could remove Arenberg entirely, and it would still be a great race.

 

[pastronef]

folks, please, Adam Hansen did not decide to put the chicane there. Riders from CPA wrote about the high speed entrance in Arenberg and ASO found the (stupid) chicane. Hansen just asked ASO what riders asked him

 

[Taxus4a]

The chicane is insane, very dangerous.

Of course today cyclists go really fast and it is dangerous to get the forest at 60 km/h , I dont know the posible solution except to come back to previous bikes but it is more dangerous to get that corner, becouse of course everybody want a good position to get into Arenberg.

 

[Extinction]

And that's even worse; they basically had the knowledge, but still nothing was done...

Look! They could remove Arenberg entirely, and it would still be a great race.

Remove Arenberg, are you insane!? It's iconic, taking it out would only postpone possibly huge crashes up the road, as the course would become less selective beforehand and there would be larger groups deeper into the race at the critical moments. Talk about a recipe for disaster. In this sense, Arenberg could actually make the race safer.

Once again your willfully circumscribed worldview is laughable, for it wasn't worse for them in the past that they didn't come up with viable and effective helmets sooner, as if they sinisterly ignored the issue. For one thing, the technology wasn't there yet and, for another, the very sensibility towards the issue has evolved with the technical means to deal with it. The two go hand in hand, so your moralizing the point is silly.

 

[Barkintheeye]

That's what I don't like about this decision: Sunday's race will be an experiment. They should try it out before the race, not during the race. The "solution" might be worse than the original problem.

That chicane looks dangerous, because the road is so narrow. There will be a snarl-up. Someone who's in the back of a big group will be half a minute behind and have a hard time coming back. So positioning will be even more important, which can lead to even more jostling.

I wonder what percentage of the riders would support this decision.

Word to that. Arenberg might be the most crazy sections of any race as of today but trying to fix the problem with an untested solution sound even crazier.

 

[RedheadDane]

Remove Arenberg, are you insane!? It's iconic, taking it out would only postpone possibly huge crashes up the road, as the course would become less selective beforehand and there would be larger groups deeper into the race at the critical moments. Talk about a recipe for disaster. In this sense, Arenberg could actually make the race safer.

Wasn't there several years when the Arenberg wasn't used?
The race was still great! Not like Arenberg is the only way to make the race selective.

For One thing, the technology wasn't there yet and, for another, the very sensibility towards the issue has evolved with the technical means to deal with it. The two go hand in hand, so your moralizing the point is silly.

Thank you for proving my point:
The knowledge of how to make better helmets has improved.

 

[Extinction]

I suppose you're partly right.
I should just ignore all the people who have pre-emptively decided not to enjoy the race Sunday.

Don't worry, I'll have beer 🍻 in the fridge and will quite enjoy the spectacle, which hopefully won't include a more serious outcome going into Arenberg with this insane chicane.

 

[wheresmybrakes]

I wonder if this change would have happened if it had been some lower ranked team riders who had crashed at Dwars and not WVA and Pederson etc.

 

[pastronef]

all these words and then VDP and Philipsen will fly away with a small group and it will suck

 

[pastronef]

I wonder if this change would have happened if it had been some lower ranked team riders who had crashed at Dwars and not WVA and Pederson etc.

Dwars was a touch of wheels on tarmac. no relation to fast sharp cobbles. I think the CPA request came before.

 

[Volderke]

Remove Arenberg, are you insane!? It's iconic, taking it out would only postpone possibly huge crashes up the road, as the course would become less selective beforehand and there would be larger groups deeper into the race at the critical moments. Talk about a recipe for disaster. In this sense, Arenberg could actually make the race safer.

Let's go back and look at the history of Arenberg in Paris-Roubaix:

Introduced in 1968, the passage was closed from 1974 to 1983 by the Office National des Fôrets. Until 1998 the entry to the Arenberg pavé was slightly downhill, leading to a sprint for best position. The route was reversed in 1999 to reduce the speed. This was as a result of Johan Museeuw's crash in 1998 as World Cup leader, which resulted in gangrene so severe that amputation of his leg was considered.

In 2005 the Trouée d'Arenberg was left out, organisers saying conditions had deteriorated beyond safety limits as abandoned mines had caused sections to subside.

The regional and local councils spent €250,000 on adding 50 cm to restore the original width of three metres and the race continued using it. The Italian rider Filippo Pozzato said after trying the road after its repairs:

It's the true definition of hell. It's very dangerous, especially in the first kilometre when we enter it at more than 60kh. It's unbelievable. The bike goes in all directions. It will be a real spectacle but I don't know if it's really necessary to impose it on us.

In 2001 a French rider, Philippe Gaumont, broke his femur after falling at the start of the Trouée when leading the peloton. He said:

What I went through, only I will ever know. My knee cap completely turned to the right, a ball of blood forming on my leg and the bone that broke, without being able to move my body. And the pain, a pain that I wouldn't wish on anyone. The surgeon placed a big support [un gros matériel] in my leg, because the bone had moved so much. Breaking a femur is always serious in itself but an open break in an athlete of high level going flat out, that tears the muscles. At 180 beats [a minute of the heart], there was a colossal amount of blood being pumped, which meant my leg was full of blood. I'm just grateful that the artery was untouched.

Video of Gaumont:

View: https://youtu.be/RamvZ6o9EQE?t=40

 

[Ricco']

The potential for bad pr is real, i.e. in the event there's a crash in that u-turn (because it's not really a chicane), there will be a bit of an outcry.

The race simply didn't need any of ththis.

Yup, and the one who has his credibility on the line now is Hansen. ASO did the wise move for them and cleaned their hands of anything that will happen leading up to the sector. They will have their race with plenty of moments of interest either way and have accepted the riders propose. Now Hansen either leaves sunday as a hero (big success, no crash and everyone leaves Arenberg unscathed) or a villain (imagine a big crash on the chicane or the road leading up to it that takes out, E3 style, a big number of favourites and puts them out of the race, every one will turn to him and any credibility that he may have for future race course changes will be put on the line, by riders and event holders).

 

[RedheadDane]

Don't worry, I'll have beer 🍻 in the fridge and will quite enjoy the spectacle, which hopefully won't include a more serious outcome going into Arenberg with this insane chicane.

Just leave it there.

 

[SafeBet]

folks, please, Adam Hansen did not decide to put the chicane there. Riders from CPA wrote about the high speed entrance in Arenberg and ASO found the (stupid) chicane. Hansen just asked ASO what riders asked him

Perhaps I'm wrong, but from what I gather on Twitter this was the preferred option among riders (or at least the majority of them).
I don't doubt a number of riders are against the chicane. Yet complaining about it on social media after the association representing you demanded and achieved a route change seems rather puerile to me.

 

[RedheadDane]

[content deleted]

The. Knowledge. Is. The. Technological. Developments!

Now they have the knowledge of how to make proper helmets.