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Cofidis, Bouygues Telecom denied ProTour status

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Swingtop said:
Am I one of the few that are glad to see them gone from the PT? Let other more competitive teams be able to take these hardfought PT spots, and do something more useful with it.

i wont particularly miss either of them, to be honest ive rated cofidis below some of the pro continantal teams for years...

we dont actually know the reasons they where turned down yet, could be mutual, could be one of many things that the uci set as criteria, doping testing, financial guarantees, management structure and performance/results, maybe both teams have financial issues, maybe the sponsors arent keen on some of the financial guarantees as they dont see the benefit of the PT, maybe results counted against them, there are several pro=cont teams with better performances.. how many times have we seen vacon-soleil at the front of races recently compared with bbox..?

frankly its not great issue.. the pro tour wont miss them, and they wont miss the pro tour..

as for the UCI.. im torn, yes they come up with some ****.. but they do do some very good things.. yes, the BP is a bit of a pile of crap, but weve just had a great world championships, yes, some the PT is a pile of ****, but in other areas they do a great job. its always easier to critisise any organisations shortcomings than it is to praise their successes..
 
auscyclefan94 said:
Why does Cofidis dropped ot of the protour and Francaise Des Jeux keep their licence. Cofidis is a solid team compared to FDJ.

Cofidis was ranked in the bottom two of all teh PT teams in the rankings, below even some pro continental teams. Also Cofidis was up for renewal of their license and FDJ was not up for renewal this year so they still have an existing license.
 
Jul 14, 2009
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TRDean said:
That is a financial wind fall for those teams!! Has this happened before? I mean why have a pro tour license in the first place?
Good point. Wait till the Tour of California, you will be able to pick the winner at the start line. Giro and Vuelta will play a bigger role for euro teams and the UCI will water down the sport a little more rather than watch a core of the best 50 riders compete all over. For lots of teams the UCI is just a hassle. There is no reason not to have 30 teams if it's an invite only tour you still can't go without the invitation.
 
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Given that BBox and Cofidis are ranked so low, I guess it's fair enough that they get dropped. As many suggest, the issue is why have some teams been granted a four year licence? I think the problem with the UCI licensing system is the four years in the first place!! Why not give out one year licences?
alot can change in 4 years, look at Astana, its reshaping everyday!!

What about a relegation system similar to the Premier League?
- At the end of the season, look at the world rankings
- Say, give the top 18 teams, automatic approval (one year extension) of the ProTour licence, if they choose to accept
- If some team choose to stay ProCont, then offer the 18th licence to the 19th ranked team. etc etc

Furthermore, as some have said, many teams can benefit from just ProCont licence, as Cervelo have been invited to ALL 3 grand tours, and most significant one-day and short stage races..
 
Jun 16, 2009
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Mountain Goat said:
Given that BBox and Cofidis are ranked so low, I guess it's fair enough that they get dropped. As many suggest, the issue is why have some teams been granted a four year licence? I think the problem with the UCI licensing system is the four years in the first place!! Why not give out one year licences?
alot can change in 4 years, look at Astana, its reshaping everyday!!

What about a relegation system similar to the Premier League?
- At the end of the season, look at the world rankings
- Say, give the top 18 teams, automatic approval (one year extension) of the ProTour licence, if they choose to accept
- If some team choose to stay ProCont, then offer the 18th licence to the 19th ranked team. etc etc

Furthermore, as some have said, many teams can benefit from just ProCont licence, as Cervelo have been invited to ALL 3 grand tours, and most significant one-day and short stage races..
+ 1
That would be a great idea. The best teams would always be involved.
 
Mountain Goat said:
Given that BBox and Cofidis are ranked so low, I guess it's fair enough that they get dropped. As many suggest, the issue is why have some teams been granted a four year licence? I think the problem with the UCI licensing system is the four years in the first place!! Why not give out one year licences?
alot can change in 4 years, look at Astana, its reshaping everyday!!

What about a relegation system similar to the Premier League?
- At the end of the season, look at the world rankings
- Say, give the top 18 teams, automatic approval (one year extension) of the ProTour licence, if they choose to accept
- If some team choose to stay ProCont, then offer the 18th licence to the 19th ranked team. etc etc

Furthermore, as some have said, many teams can benefit from just ProCont licence, as Cervelo have been invited to ALL 3 grand tours, and most significant one-day and short stage races..

It was one of the main points with introducing the PT. It's ment to create stability and a better work environment for everyone involved. Also it's a way to attract more determined sponsors to the sport. If they can guarantee that a certain team will be seen in the biggest races for 4 years it's easier for a company to commit to sponsoring a team for a longer period of time. It has often been hard to get enough sponsors to keep teams going which creates uncertainty both in the teams, the races and the UCI.

A relegation system is what they had before with the Trade Team 1 and Trade Team 2 classes. It had some limitations mentioned above that they wanted to avoid.
 
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Mountain Goat said:
...What about a relegation system similar to the Premier League?...

I agree with some of thinking behind this idea - a team has a genuine basis on which to start planning, cyclists have a little more control of their future and vital information when planning it, if done correctly, teams cannot come from nowhere without having proven themselves to be reasonably well run with a proper youth development footing, must have their anti-doping frameworks seriously examined by an independent source before moving up, and comply with the other rules and regulations.

However, this is more along the lines of a footballing set up - one whioch works very well in football, but will it work as well in cycling? Discovery died suddenly as they couldn't get a sponsor when they were maybe in the top three or four protour teams. Credit Agricole too. If a team were facing "relegation" their sponsor might reconsider the following year's sponsorship if they thought it a divisional set up. Also, team reconfigurings, a la US Discotana into Radio Shack, and brand new "Superteams" like Sky (Katusha were at least built on top of Tinkoff) would be highly unlikely as they would not be able to justify themselves on a hope of a wildcard - I'm not saying this is a good or a bad thing, just pointing it out.

Furthermore, having to have a set size for the Protour is a double edged sword - what if the top six Pro Conti teams decline, because of the financial and travel commitment, or if the only one that fulfills the criteria is 12th, because they concentrated on the criteria, not the racing, but one of the teams that finished in the "relegation zone" was more consistent, more attacking but just could not win, yet came second on, say 15 occasions in GT stages and overalls, and in Paris Roubaix and the Giro di Lombardia?

The thing is it is a very good system to implement in sports like football or rugby, where there is always a clear winner and a loser and a league table and the conditions are fixed, and the sponsors serve the club, not the team serve the sponsors. Cavendish pulled out of the higher ranked Tour of Britain to race the Tour of Missouri which is more important to the sponsor. On a different squad, losing a cyclist of that short arsed stature would wreck their hopes of picking up the points they might need to stay up but depriving their sponsor of their jollies might be even more suicidal. Cycling is a very different sport to the ones that use this system, and allowance must be made.

It also does remind me that there are plenty of ills in many other sports, so much so that I think most of them believe that they are permanently on the verge of crisis, and those that do not are generally in the middle of one. Cycling does need some work to be done to sort out a number of problems, I fear the problem will have to be a great innovation rather than reverse engineering. However, making the leap of thought to at least challenging the current system is something that needs to be done, so I am going to say Chapeau for escaping the box, and propose here that Mountain Goat be elected to the UCI council!
 
The UCI points system was how a lot of riders and teams got into doping. The riders were worried about enough points so they doped and the teams were worried about not being invited to key races to they assisted the doping. Luckily this time around we don’t have a doping problem :p
 
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luckyboy said:
"There is no [chance] that I am racing in a Pro Continental team," said Fédrigo.

:rolleyes:

that may sound arrogant but a rider of fedrigo's quality should be riding for a protour team. he'll get picked up as well as voeckler. Their are going to be a lot of quality riders riding for pro conti teams next year.
 
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auscyclefan94 said:
that may sound arrogant but a rider of fedrigo's quality should be riding for a protour team. he'll get picked up as well as voeckler. Their are going to be a lot of quality riders riding for pro conti teams next year.

I don't think it sounds arrogant at all. I think he has a point. I just hope things work out for him.
 
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Does it really matter? Look at Cervelo, they had an excellent year, raced in a lot of great races and I am sure their sponsors were very pleased. Did they even apply for PT status? Dropping these two teams parallels Euro soccer, you come in at the bottom of the table and you get demoted. Cheers to the UCI. Cof and BBox (love this team btw) will be at the Tour, what is the big deal?

Now if they could just get rid of Milram...
 

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hoogerland said:
Does it really matter? Look at Cervelo, they had an excellent year, raced in a lot of great races and I am sure their sponsors were very pleased. Did they even apply for PT status? Dropping these two teams parallels Euro soccer, you come in at the bottom of the table and you get demoted. Cheers to the UCI. Cof and BBox (love this team btw) will be at the Tour, what is the big deal?

Now if they could just get rid of Milram...

For me there is a big difference between Pro Cycling and other sports - as the only revenue for Cycling teams is through having a sponsor fund the team.

A sponsor is interested in exposure - not necessarily results. By being at certain races exposure is guaranteed and therefore it is viable for a sponsor to invest in the sport.
Remember what happened at Unibet - they left the sport as soon as they were not allowed race in certain events.

The only reason BBox is safe from going the same way as Unibet is because they are French.
 
Another aspect that comse to mind with BBox and Cofidis missing out in PT license is the nations ranking to get full participation in the worlds. Losing two PT team will certainly not help them get more points next year. Even if they can get invites to some races it won't be all of them so it's a further handicap for those who wants to see nine french riders at the worlds.
 
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I'm not sure it really matters, Bouygues and Cofidis will ride the Tour as they're french, oh and probally any other french races they want in to (Target Market obviously too), then the teams aren't rubbish so they'll for sure get invites to the bigger races.

All that matters is that they are no longer Guarenteed entry, or have the shiny logo on the jersey.
 
I'm not sure if this belongs here, but I didn't want to start another thread.

In spite of receiving a renewal of their pro-tour license, Milram are having problems. First the renewal of the license is just for one year; second, their sponsor will retire at the end of 2010 season.

Cycling in Germany is dying.
 

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afpm90 said:
I'm not sure if this belongs here, but I didn't want to start another thread.

In spite of receiving a renewal of their pro-tour license, Milram are having problems. First the renewal of the license is just for one year; second, their sponsor will retire at the end of 2010 season.

Cycling in Germany is dying.

Thats what i find alarming about this whole process - Lampre get a 4 year licence while Milram only get one.

Surely if Milram have adhered to the rules then they should be given a 4 year licence also - and then they will have a nice carrot to attract investment from a sponsor.

It seems the larger the budget your team has the better your chances of gaining a slot on the Pro Tour roster.
 
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Dr. Maserati said:
Thats what i find alarming about this whole process - Lampre get a 4 year licence while Milram only get one.

Surely if Milram have adhered to the rules then they should be given a 4 year licence also - and then they will have a nice carrot to attract investment from a sponsor.

It seems the larger the budget your team has the better your chances of gaining a slot on the Pro Tour roster.

It is intersting to see a lot of the european teams (except britain) who are currently in the protour are starting to die out and a lot of the english speaking nations are starrting to produce teams who were originally minors in world cycling. i think also that countries such as Britain, USA and Australia are getting more numbers into the protour which means less european riders are in the protour as cycling is evolving into a world wide sport not just a european sport.
 
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auscyclefan94 said:
It is intersting to see a lot of the european teams (except britain) who are currently in the protour are starting to die out and a lot of the english speaking nations are starrting to produce teams who were originally minors in world cycling. i think also that countries such as Britain, USA and Australia are getting more numbers into the protour which means less european riders are in the protour as cycling is evolving into a world wide sport not just a european sport.

Britain is in Europe...;)
A best indication is the nationality of riders and not the team... teams are more linked with their sponsor than country.
How many US riders in the Shack teams ?