Liege Bastogne Liege-7 hour monument, Sunday, April 21, 2024

[proffate]

He actually did. He broke away from the group after RaF bringing couple of guys with him and bridged to that group behind Bardet. That move gave him the podium place.

on top of which, why are we comparing MVDP and Bardet? Bardet is not going to win a la MVDP and MVDP is not going to win a la Bardet. We are better off comparing MVDP and Pidcock. Piddles claims to have had the best legs of his life, but he got impatient and tried to bridge to the front group. That cost him any chance of victory regardless of whether Bahrain and co got to draft the convoy. MVDP was nothing if not patient (for two straight races), and he got the maximum result he could. A podium in Liege can make a lesser rider's entire career! Like Mathieu kept saying in interviews, you have to gamble. Piddles was perhaps a bit too desperate to win; MVDP is becoming wiser; this is a positive takeaway for MVDP fans.

Of course Pog never has to gamble as long as his entire deck is aces.

 

[proffate]

If there was an organised chase with 6 to 8 strong riders of course they could bring Pog and Remco back ...the difference in riding strength is not a big as perceived

haha what? Pog having the strength of 8 (elite) men is not a big enough difference for you?

 

[Oldermanish]

haha what? Pog having the strength of 8 (elite) men is not a big enough difference for you?

A 274 km race with 2800m of crappy-road climbing doesn't usually have 6-8 guys strong enough to chase. That's my point about Tadej and Remco's late ability: it's a simple 30-40km tempo effort against whomever behind you can match your pace. Realistically if Tadej or Remco know their reserves their biggest concern isn't the chasers; it's overcooking a corner. The guys behind might take coordinated turns in an attempt to retrieve those two (or one) out front....for about two turns each if the there isn't a significant drop in the gap.

Then they start looking for the fastest wheel to lead them to a podium place sprint. There are very "if" situations in that kind of race and with that level of leader. MvP and Wout do the same thing on terrain that favors their skills, too. It's not even extraterrestrial if any of those guys have trained for the effort and have confidence.

 

[Oldermanish]

Just watched to final 40km in detail with some Celebrator Doppelbocks...love the goat necklace on the bottle!

The precursor to Redoute had Tadej in great position so his acceleration was pretty much unimpeded. He had 15 seconds at the top and carried his TT mode on the flat/descent and gained nearly 30 seconds by not backing off in less than 1km; which says alot about his pursuers.
They were fractured and from posture of those front 5 or 6 riders, they expected the pack to catch them. That gave Pogacar the additional 30 second gap on the narrow, single-track descent with cars parked half on the outside line of the turns. He locked into the planned effort to the finish without taking any risky lines.

Watching the groups behind them it was a drama owned by GT riders and their ability to milk work out of others. Bardet did what we've seen him do on every major GT climb; take a pull providing a slight gap to the next rider and then ceding the front of the group to that rider. Bardet knew he was racing for a podium finish and used the bike-wrestling Ben Healey like a rented tractor. Ben and EF should watch that section on video. Bardet rode with subtle Veteran confidence all the way to dropping those overworked newbies. Meanwhile, in the MvP group the real strategy was obvious. Bardet's teammate was 2nd or 3rd wheel in the group, offering nothing for effort and ahead of MvP. Trailing MvP were two of Tadej's UAE guys, spaced appropriately to deal with any aggression that might happen. It was classic team setup and a great thing to see on a long race like this.
Notable was the QS riders....trying to hang on to the back of every failing/flailing group they were stuck in. If Remco had been in this event he would have had to be glued to Tadej's jersey to accomplish a podium, IMO. His team would have not been any help when the sh*t hit the fan.
Pogacar proved that he is a very tactially disciplined guy, once again. His demeanor at the finish was a fatigued and satisfied victor.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

After thinking about it for a moment: Pogacar's Redoute record is quite impressive considering headwind for most of the climb (completely opposite wind direction to the last year). Those 20 seconds of gap he got over the best of the rest on such a short section is kinda demolition.

 

[Sciatic]

on top of which, why are we comparing MVDP and Bardet? Bardet is not going to win a la MVDP and MVDP is not going to win a la Bardet. We are better off comparing MVDP and Pidcock. Piddles claims to have had the best legs of his life, but he got impatient and tried to bridge to the front group. That cost him any chance of victory regardless of whether Bahrain and co got to draft the convoy. MVDP was nothing if not patient (for two straight races), and he got the maximum result he could. A podium in Liege can make a lesser rider's entire career! Like Mathieu kept saying in interviews, you have to gamble. Piddles was perhaps a bit too desperate to win; MVDP is becoming wiser; this is a positive takeaway for MVDP fans.

Of course Pog never has to gamble as long as his entire deck is aces.

I don’t think you understand the context of my comment.

My comment was a response to Rackam saying “I have no disrespect for Bardet but his second place is a bit like VdP's third place, i.e. a roll of the dice based on the tactics & movement of others.”

 

[Valv.Piti]

Impressive win. But not completely unpreceeded. 1998 Bartoli was kind of equally impressive, for instance.

Now lets see Paul Allen's solo victory

Yearly reminder to watch American Psycho again.

 

[Netserk]

Now lets see Paul Allen's solo victory

Yearly reminder to watch American Psycho again.

All the best killings were removed from the film though ...

 

[proffate]

I don’t think you understand the context of my comment.

My comment was a response to Rackam saying “I have no disrespect for Bardet but his second place is a bit like VdP's third place, i.e. a roll of the dice based on the tactics & movement of others.”

What I was responding to was not your statement but Logic's "Bardet was among the ~5 strongest in the race and made the right moves. Van der Poel was among the ~50 strongest in the race and made no moves." (Which is a direct comparison coming one sentence before saying they shouldn't be compared, but I'm assuming what he really meant was "to equate the two is quite a stretch".) My point is that to claim that Bardet rode "stronger" than MVDP on the basis that he went uphill faster is dumb, because everyone knows Bardet goes uphill faster, and going uphill is the only way he's ever going to win anything. MVDP's tool chest is a lot different looking.

 

[Wyndbrook]

I think Bardet is more than pretty good at a fast tricky downhill finish, if only there were more designed for him.

 

[Cookster15]

After thinking about it for a moment: Pogacar's Redoute record is quite impressive considering headwind for most of the climb (completely opposite wind direction to the last year). Those 20 seconds of gap he got over the best of the rest on such a short section is kinda demolition.

Pogacar's demolition of Redoute into a headwind well and truly puts in the shade Remco's effort in 2023.

 

[Oldermanish]

Pogacar's demolition of Redoute into a headwind well and truly puts in the shade Remco's effort in 2023.

Why does it have to be compared so directly? A headwind favors the strongest rider, Pogacar. After the hill it was a TT to the finish and similar to Remco's. Different race and different micro tactics that they both won convincingly.