Teams & Riders Tadej Pogačar discussion thread

[Netserk]

If Boonens 4th wasn't the record, would you not?

No. Roubaix is a greater race, better to win another one. I also prefer Armstrong's GT record (before he was banned) over Froome's.

 

[Gigs_98]

No. Roubaix is a greater race, better to win another one. I also prefer Armstrong's GT record (before he was banned) over Froome's.

I think GTs are different though because they all test pretty much the same skill. If you've won the Tour 7 times no sh*t you also could have won the giro and the Vuelta if only you cared. Winning PR doesn't mean you can win MSR too. That's why I value a very versatile classics palmares very highly. Like, I think Gilberts classics career was way way better than Valverdes despite only winning one monument more.

 

[Froome]

No. Roubaix is a greater race, better to win another one. I also prefer Armstrong's GT record (before he was banned) over Froome's.

The true is that probably if some rider of this generation get's 6 Tours de France, he will be more remembered than someone who won every race.

Of course it's always better winning 6 Tours de France and all the other races.

 

[Peyroteo94]

I think GTs are different though because they all test pretty much the same skill. If you've won the Tour 7 times no sh*t you also could have won the giro and the Vuelta if only you cared. Winning PR doesn't mean you can win MSR too. That's why I value a very versatile classics palmares very highly. Like, I think Gilberts classics career was way way better than Valverdes despite only winning one monument more.

not just that. Gilbert's wins are not just boring uphill sprints.

 

[Brullnux]

No. Roubaix is a greater race, better to win another one. I also prefer Armstrong's GT record (before he was banned) over Froome's.

Froome is a bit weird though because 2011 was an on the road defeat, so it ends up at 4/1/1, which is obviously worse than 7 Tours. However, I preferred Contador's 3/3/3 to Armstrong's 7, and I still kind of like the symmetry of the 2/2/3.

 

[hayneplane]

Surely just preference, no? Pogacar seems more like the I want to win something of everything type, with a focus on the Tour partly bc (imo) Vingegaard keeps beating him. If he beats Vingegaard fair and square, then I can absolutely see him mixing up priorities according to whatever he fancies that year. He's more like Contador/Nibali in that regard than Armstrong/Sky.

Also given he's a throwback to 60s and 70s riders, I feel like he might well want a similar palmarés too

Think a difference there is there was always a big pull towards the Giro for Nibali as the biggest star in Italian cycling of his era. It also helped him to star pad his palmares as he wasn’t beating prime Contador or Froome.

 

[Blanco]

I think GTs are different though because they all test pretty much the same skill. If you've won the Tour 7 times no sh*t you also could have won the giro and the Vuelta if only you cared. Winning PR doesn't mean you can win MSR too. That's why I value a very versatile classics palmares very highly. Like, I think Gilberts classics career was way way better than Valverdes despite only winning one monument more.

Versatility is fine and nice, a great quality, But it is not deciding factor. Sheer amount of wins are, and the bigger they are, better the rider is.
It comes into play, when there's some kind of a tie, then the versatile one gets the nod.
Gilbert classics career was better, but not way better.

 

[Sciatic]

To get a complete palmares, you must win every race. So I'd assume Poggi goes for P-N next year and maybe Dauphine too. Then Tour -Vuelta double. And a few selected classics.

When riders talk about get a win to “complete their palmares” they are talking about wins in the set of races important to them and suited to their attributes (classics, sprinter, GC) not that a complete palmares means winning every big race on the calendar.

 

[proffate]

For Pog, I would definitely rate one MSR more highly than another Lombardia or Liege, because it's just a slap in the face of all the fast men whereas we don't need another reminder that he's still the best 1 day climber.

I mean, to win Lombardia you only have to be a little bit better than the next best climber. But to win MSR as a climber, you probably have to be head and shoulders better than anyone else. So to some extent, "versatility" is actually a way of demonstrating utter dominance.

But if Pog never wins GW then it's probably a knock on GW, not on his palmares.

 

[scribers]

Depends on what happens this year. If he gets the Giro-Tour double I even see a possible radical schedule change next year: going for all monuments (Flandres + Roubaix included) in the spring and Vuelta in the autumn.

Mou says no P-R before 2026

 

[scribers]

Given Pogacar status in the team I think he has something to say and they won't oppose if he wants to skip the Tour one year (especially after completing the double and regaining the Tour title). It's still a long way to go and a lot of things can happen in the meantime. Tour is always his big goal but I can imagine him intentionally skipping it once during his prime (i.e. to have a better shot at Roubaix and Vuelta).

He can ride the tour and still contest P-R and la vuelta

 

[scribers]

I don't know why he cares about one week stage races. Cycling is all about GT's, monuments and worlds. This is where legacy is created. No one will ever remember if he wins Pais Vasco, Tour de Suisse or Tour de Romandie. And these 3 races are not good for his schedule. Racing Pais Vasco means he can't compete in Flanders, Romandie starts when he goes on vacations. Tour de Suisse (fighting for GC) is not a good prep for the Tour.
If he tries to win these races instead of really focusing on winning more monuments and Tours, I will be very surprised.
In order to be the best ever he needs to win 5 Tours, 3 Giros and 3 Vueltas. In terms of monuments, he needs to win all of them and surpass 11 wins.

Wet ambitious targets. And I like it!

I can’t disagree with some one week stage races ducking up his classics schedule. But winning the primary one week stage races is a worthy accomplishment

 

[Oldermanish]

No matter how hardcore fan you might be in favor of MVDP it’s hard to look past the achievements of Pog. He is definitely more versatile (on the road) than MVDP and he has beaten Mathieu at least once (RVV 2023) on his own ground. Should Pog continue to win spectacularly other classics such as MSR and PR (not too unlikely) he will clearly be the best Classics rider in this lifetime. Yet the next major showdown between these two is another divider: the next Road WC. Can Pog put that one down after having completed the Giro and the Tour? If yes then it’s something otherworldly to behold.

Be fair to MvP. He's won alot of Rainbows in races that take a max effort for two hours or less, save for his Masterfull WC last year. Meanwhile this race was an excruciatingly long event favoring GT riders used to spending 7 hours in the saddle. Not his cup of tea nor should it be. Why run a marathon when you can own the 100 meter Gold medal? He is suited superbly to what he enjoys winning and we should enjoy it. Hopefully Wout can re emerge as a great antagonist and challenge him.

 

[Oldermanish]

No. Roubaix is a greater race, better to win another one. I also prefer Armstrong's GT record (before he was banned) over Froome's.

Put those two into the same soup. I prefer Lemond's victories to anything accomplished by other American pretenders. Except Hampsten; he was the real deal.

 

[SHAD0W93]

https://www.cyclist.co.uk/in-depth/tadej-pogacar-monument-ranking

 

[jaylew]

I really can the scenario where Pogi wins Giro-Tour but ends being beaten by MVP in the ORR and some people will say how MVP is better than Pogacar in one day races, ignoring completly the effort Pogi put to win the double.

And if that happened it would be a legitimate response. It doesn't matter what other races you do or try to win, whether GTs, stage races, cyclocross, mtb, whatever...same as with injuries and illness, you can always say someone would have won or could have won, but you have to actually do it. They both have 6 monuments in 3 different races atm, but Pogacar was beaten head to head in the biggest one day of them all and hasn't won it yet so it's easy for me to have Pogacar #2 right now as far as one day races are concerned. Nice thing is, we do get to measure them head to head since they both are likely to compete in 4 of the 6 races multiple times in the years to come. Pogacar is far and away the best overall road cyclist in the world and maybe I'll consider him the best one day racer in the future but not just yet.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

What interests me is how did they plan form peaks and lows? Surely Pog can be in good form most of the year but in previous years he always had spring peak and then longer break after Ardennes classics and before the Tour. How is it this year? No time to recover and slow down a little: time between Giro and Tour is too short and the recent altitude camp break was more about further form buildup. He must be on fire since Strade to the Tour! Will he pay for it in July?

 

[Bolder]

Be fair to MvP. He's won alot of Rainbows in races that take a max effort for two hours or less, save for his Masterfull WC last year. Meanwhile this race was an excruciatingly long event favoring GT riders used to spending 7 hours in the saddle. Not his cup of tea nor should it be. Why run a marathon when you can own the 100 meter Gold medal? He is suited superbly to what he enjoys winning and we should enjoy it. Hopefully Wout can re emerge as a great antagonist and challenge him.

It’s a venn diagram between their skill sets, including GTs, cx, xc.

In the races that overlap and slightly favor one or the other, IMO Pog has the edge by winning Flanders. Last year’s WC was more on Mvdp’s side, while LBL is on pogs side of the intersection of the circles.

 

[Salvarani]

What interests me is how did they plan form peaks and lows? Surely Pog can be in good form most of the year but in previous years he always had spring peak and then longer break after Ardennes classics and before the Tour. How is it this year? No time to recover and slow down a little: time between Giro and Tour is too short and the recent altitude camp break was more about further form buildup. He must be on fire since Strade to the Tour! Will he pay for it in July?

I think the answer is less race days this spring, compared to previous years.

He has a new trainer and methods. DIfferent approach. Thats actually a fact.

I dont think he has necessarily "peaked" yet this spring.

I think he has just been training and mixed it up with racing. I dont think he has really aimed to peak yet.

I think the plan is to keep the form from doing the Giro into the Tour.

 

[KZD]

https://www.cyclist.co.uk/in-depth/tadej-pogacar-monument-ranking

Very interesting article, I would personally rate Lombardia 2021 a bit higher but as I had already talked about after Strade, what really stands out nowadays is how much more dominant Pogi has become in his one day race wins when compared to his earlier days like 2021.

@Krzysztof_O I think this season, Liège marks the beginning of his spring peak that should last at least until the first two weeks of the Giro.

 

[Sybrand]

Bit late to celebrate, but results of his last 5 finishes in Lombardia and L-B-L tell enough:
1st
1st
1st
1st
1st

Unbeatable!

 

[RedheadDane]

Bit late to celebrate, but results of his last 5 starts in Lombardia and L-B-L tell enough:
1st
1st
1st
1st
1st

Unbeatable!

Hate to burst your bubble but... wouldn't it be more correct to say his last 5 finishes in Lombardia and L-B-L?

Edited to reflect edit of quoted post:

I suppose you could say that they only thing that could beat him has been a pothole.

 

[Fos]

I think the answer is less race days this spring, compared to previous years.

He has a new trainer and methods. DIfferent approach. Thats actually a fact.

I dont think he has necessarily "peaked" yet this spring.

I think he has just been training and mixed it up with racing. I dont think he has really aimed to peak yet.

I think the plan is to keep the form from doing the Giro into the Tour.

And according to what has been known, there has not been a typical concentration at altitude in Sierra Nevada. Shortened and rest at low altitude for at least several days.

 

[Peyroteo94]

Pogacar's base level is two levels above everyone's peak (excluding Big 6)

 

[Armchair cyclist]

Bit late to celebrate, but results of his last 5 finishes in Lombardia and L-B-L tell enough:
1st
1st
1st
1st
1st

Unbeatable!

Unbeaten (in a limited selection) is not unbeatable. One is an historical statement, the other is a future prediction. And without uncertainty, what is sport?