Teams & Riders Tadej Pogačar discussion thread

[Salvarani]

Bit late to celebrate, but results of his last 5 finishes in Lombardia and L-B-L tell enough:
1st
1st
1st
1st
1st

Unbeatable!

Unbeatable in those editions, yes.

 

[Valv.Piti]

What interests me is how did they plan form peaks and lows? Surely Pog can be in good form most of the year but in previous years he always had spring peak and then longer break after Ardennes classics and before the Tour. How is it this year? No time to recover and slow down a little: time between Giro and Tour is too short and the recent altitude camp break was more about further form buildup. He must be on fire since Strade to the Tour! Will he pay for it in July?

I think his base form is just the highest in the entire history of the sport at this point, so even operating at 80-90%, he usually demolishes these other riders unless we talk peak Van der Poel, Vingegaard, WVA etc. in races that suits them.

 

[Netserk]

I think his base form is just the highest in the entire history of the sport at this point, so even operating at 80-90%, he usually demolishes these other riders unless we talk peak Van der Poel, Vingegaard, WVA etc. in races that suits them.

He was at least as good in Catalunya as he was in Paris-Nice last year, the same for Liège and Ronde, Sanremo both years as well.

So if this is "base level" without any peak of form, he also didn't peak for the spring last year and rode at base level then.

 

[roundabout]

Not sure if he did any specific training camps last year, but I think this year there was no work at altitude before Catalunya and he rested at low altitude after Catalunya.

But maybe he gets no boost from altitude.

 

[Nick2413]

I just don’t think peak is a very relevant term anymore, particularly for guys like him. Pogacar will of course be better in some key races, but it’s more of a sinusoidal wave that never dips below monument winning capability. Rolling plains rather than peaks and valleys.

 

[Netserk]

I just don’t think peak is a very relevant term anymore, particularly for guys like him. Pogacar will of course be better in some key races, but it’s more of a sinusoidal wave that never dips below monument winning capability. Rolling plains rather than peaks and valleys.

For the previous seasons, that has not been the case after the Tour.

 

[VayaVayaVaya]

For the previous seasons, that has not been the case after the Tour.

Working off memory, but it seems like he generally seems super high form in late winter, spring, summer through Tour, then a dip in form immediately after the Tour, then back up for Olympics, WCRR, Lombardia. So are you talking about a couple weeks there or just the fact that he has said he wasn't up for riding the Vuelta?

 

[Netserk]

Working off memory, but it seems like he generally seems super high form in late winter, spring, summer through Tour, then a dip in form immediately after the Tour, then back up for Olympics, WCRR, Lombardia. So are you talking about a couple weeks there or just the fact that he has said he wasn't up for riding the Vuelta?

All race days that weren't Lombardia or OG/WC immediately after the Tour. His "base level" after the Tour is not like his "base level" in spring.

 

[KZD]

Bit late to celebrate, but results of his last 5 finishes in Lombardia and L-B-L tell enough:
1st
1st
1st
1st
1st

Unbeatable!

Pogačar may not be unbeatable but he is the most dominant rider that I have ever seen in the hilly monuments (LBL + Lombardia). What makes him so good for these two races, is that he is almost undroppable in short to medium duration climbs, has a very big engine for +6hour races and a killer sprint at the end.

He is only 2 wins away from Merckx there so at least in the hilly monuments, he will likely become the greatest ever.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

He was at least as good in Catalunya as he was in Paris-Nice last year, the same for Liège and Ronde, Sanremo both years as well.

So if this is "base level" without any peak of form, he also didn't peak for the spring last year and rode at base level then.

He usually planned two peaks: spring "larger mass" peak (lasting 6-8 weeks, good for MSR and cobbles), then a long break and then July "smaller mass" peak (optimizing longer climbs). Then form regression after the Tour and mini-peak for Lombardy. This year he actually looked thinner early in the season than in the previous years and the gaps he achieved in races were bigger (which doesn't translate into no spring peak theory). The theory will defend itself only if he's in noticeably better form during the Giro than recently. Otherwise it's just some kind of long peak maintained by a few longer breaks (but not long enough to rest, regress and build again), no idea how they will manage it till the summer.

EDIT: straight from the horse's mouth: I hope that I’m in good shape but I think I can still be a little better but not a lot

 

[Fos]

I think he only loses his form in the first races of September, after the post-Tour rest I suppose he doesn't do intense training to prepare for the end of the year and simply recovers a decent base for Lombardia (but not extraterrestrial).

 

[Krzysztof_O]

I think he only loses his form in the first races of September, after the post-Tour rest I suppose he doesn't do intense training to prepare for the end of the year and simply recovers a decent base for Lombardia (but not extraterrestrial).

He also usually has a long period without races between circa 20 April and 15 June (almost 2 months). Enough time to rest and build another peak. This time there's no such a long break.

 

[Oldermanish]

What interests me is how did they plan form peaks and lows? Surely Pog can be in good form most of the year but in previous years he always had spring peak and then longer break after Ardennes classics and before the Tour. How is it this year? No time to recover and slow down a little: time between Giro and Tour is too short and the recent altitude camp break was more about further form buildup. He must be on fire since Strade to the Tour! Will he pay for it in July?

Good point and he probably will need a break somehow.
Between the Giro and Tour they can assess his altitude benefits and decide how to "recover", if that's possible.

The first week of Le Tour doesn't provide anyone much of a slack time for relaxation. Everyone is so hyped up and dangerous it's difficult not to use energy staying out of trouble. Strategically Pogi needs his team to protect him on stages that can be used for modest recovery. That would suggest they don't want the GC lead until the latest stages that suit him and that's a tough balance to maintain. If he's won the Giro and wants the double he'll need to take calculated risks for that reward.
All of his adversaries will know that and exploit it which is what the Double so difficult.

 

[Cookster15]

Also on the Tour, it will be hot then. We know Pogacar loves the cold. But how will he cope with the likely heat in July? I presume UAE will be thinking about that.

 

[SHAD0W93]

Also on the Tour, it will be hot then. We know Pogacar loves the cold. But how will he cope with the likely heat in July? I presume UAE will be thinking about that.

Most likely the same as last year with the cold vest after each stage, multiple water handlers throughout the stage to replenish, and pouring water on him throughout. It looked to go well last year besides when Pog botched the handoff and Adam had to use his water for him. Plus whatever it is Mou said they were working on.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

Visibly fat Teddy before the Giro:
After consultations with Mauro and having read CN forum experts' opinions of me peaking too soon I decided to do an eating camp post LBL. My calories input was bigger than during decisive Tour stages and my only exercise was switching TV channels. I just hope to survive the opening weekend and slowly build towards a better form as the race progresses. I'm planning my peak for the last week of the Tour.

 

[Barkintheeye]

I think his base form is just the highest in the entire history of the sport at this point, so even operating at 80-90%, he usually demolishes these other riders unless we talk peak Van der Poel, Vingegaard, WVA etc. in races that suits them.

But that’s just not true. Pog didn’t win MSR and couldn’t drop Van der Poel. We will not know how he would have done in Paris-Roubaix but I deem it very unlikely that he could’ve beaten Van der Poel. In addition - very unfortunately - we haven’t seen him up against a peak Remco unless we count last year’s WC and there we all know what happened. Surely Pog is the absolute strongest P4P rider today and he will almost every time beat anyone on hilly classics. Yet he definitely not is unbeatable.

 

[Valv.Piti]

But that’s just not true. Pog didn’t win MSR and couldn’t drop Van der Poel. We will not know how he would have done in Paris-Roubaix but I deem it very unlikely that he could’ve beaten Van der Poel. In addition - very unfortunately - we haven’t seen him up against a peak Remco unless we count last year’s WC and there we all know what happened. Surely Pog is the absolute strongest P4P rider today and he will almost every time beat anyone on hilly classics. Yet he definitely not is unbeatable.

Try to read what I wrote again

 

[Tim Cahill]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1782849255922712629

What is that really mediocre team, I know he probably doesn't need much but if the wrong break goes in the high mountains they haven't got much to bring it back, Majka is decent but not getting any younger, Bjerg is excellent on low gradients but wont be of much use on the Mortirolo.

Should've brought Del Toro, because Almeida and Ayuso won't go/work and Yates is rightly saved for The Tour

 

[Peyroteo94]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1782849255922712629

What is that really mediocre team, I know he probably doesn't need much but if the wrong break goes in the high mountains they haven't got much to bring it back, Majka is decent but not getting any younger, Bjerg is excellent on low gradients but wont be of much use on the Mortirolo.

Should've brought Del Toro, because Almeida and Ayuso won't go/work and Yates is rightly saved for The Tour

Novak and Majka are enough to this awful startlist. First hard mountain stage is stage 15 so plenty of time for Pogacar build a large advantage (probably around 6 minutes) and doesn't need any type of help (everyone will start to ride for second and third place). In fact, I like the idea of strong roullers to keep Pogi safe in first and second weeks.

 

[Gratemans]

Meh. "Wrong breaks" hardly ever happen anymore. They'll be fine with this squad. And I agree with peyroteo. It's important for them to keep him safe on the flatter stages.

 

[Nick2413]

Maybe the drama of this Giro can be Pog losing a couple min from his enormous lead in the final week, giving way to endless debates about whether the double is a lock.

 

[Ricco']

Good team to control the flats after they go through the Stelvio.

 

[ppanther92]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1782849255922712629

What is that really mediocre team, I know he probably doesn't need much but if the wrong break goes in the high mountains they haven't got much to bring it back, Majka is decent but not getting any younger, Bjerg is excellent on low gradients but wont be of much use on the Mortirolo.

Should've brought Del Toro, because Almeida and Ayuso won't go/work and Yates is rightly saved for The Tour

Obviously should not have brought Molano. But other than that - decent team. Rather like that than with Hirschi, Ulissi and so on.

 

[Oldermanish]

Novak and Majka are enough to this awful startlist. First hard mountain stage is stage 15 so plenty of time for Pogacar build a large advantage (probably around 6 minutes) and doesn't need any type of help (everyone will start to ride for second and third place). In fact, I like the idea of strong roullers to keep Pogi safe in first and second weeks.

Hopefully for a relatively non-taxing win opportunity I agree. It's what he'd need to win late and use the race with the Tour in mind.
It'll take this race to be UAE manageable to make the Tour win a possibility. He's got two weeks to rest up after his successful early season.