Teams & Riders Tadej Pogačar discussion thread

[snipeheem]

To me it was obvious he is gonna destroy the field today

 

[spicelab]

I hope you are right he is just cruising because it means Pog is riding smart. But he didn't look like he was cruising after the finish? It looked like he emptied himself.

For a reality check today by Pog was still way below the level Vingegaard showed on stage 16 of last year's TdF. That TT was only 32 minutes duration for the winner and yet in that brief time Vingo put 1'38" on Pogacar in 2nd place.

What exactly are you basing the statement that Pog's performance today was way below the level Vingegaard showed in last year's TDF on?

 

[snipeheem]

I hope you are right he is just cruising because it means Pog is riding smart. But he didn't look like he was cruising after the finish? It looked like he emptied himself.

For a reality check today by Pog was still way below the level Vingegaard showed on stage 16 of last year's TdF. That TT was only 32 minutes duration for the winner and yet in that brief time Vingo put 1'38" on Pogacar in 2nd place.

He did look normal not even breat hard and dying after the stage. 100% he didnt go all out during this TT , dont forget he is without altitude camp

 

[scribers]

What exactly are you basing the statement that Pog's performance today was way below the level Vingegaard showed in last year's TDF on?

Vingo ‘23 is the greatest ever human performance on a bicycle. Nothing pogi does will ever surpass that

 

[Froome]

Vingo ‘23 is the greatest ever human performance on a bicycle. Nothing pogi does will ever surpass that

Probably, because Pogacar himself said in a interview after the Tour France 2023, that he could never do the performance Vingegaard did on that day. He said he could do a little better, but in the best scenario he always would lose 1 minute. He himself said on that interview he can't do the numbers that Vingegaard produced on that day. So yeah, probably you are right.

It was Pogacar who said that in a interview.

 

[VayaVayaVaya]

This isn’t a knock on Pogacar at all, but I cannot remember a favorite facing such lackluster competition period, much less in the Giro during a double attempt, ignoring when riders crashed out. If Contador had faced this competition in 2011 or 2015, he might have won the double. 2018 Froome and Dumoulin had to face each other as the two best GT riders at the time, and a thermonuclear Simon Yates (until he popped).

 

[Cookster15]

What exactly are you basing the statement that Pog's performance today was way below the level Vingegaard showed in last year's TDF on?

This . These gaps were created in a much shorter duration than today. Just 32 minutes.

Tour de France 2023 Stage 16 (ITT) results

Jonas Vingegaard is the winner of Tour de France 2023 Stage 16 (ITT), before Tadej PogaÄar and Wout van Aert. Jonas Vingegaard was leader in GC.

www.procyclingstats.com

 

[bNator]

I find it funny how everyone is talking about how "Mou was right". I guess he was, but saying he'd be far in front by now was a completely obvious prediction.

Exactly. Everyone and their mother were able to predict Pog would have been way in front by now. The ultimate test of a true oracle is predicting altitude camps correctly instead of blaming Urska Zigart’s boyfriend’s girlfriend for one’s failed prophecies.

 

[spicelab]

This . These gaps were created in a much shorter duration than today. Just 32 minutes.

Tour de France 2023 Stage 16 (ITT) results

Jonas Vingegaard is the winner of Tour de France 2023 Stage 16 (ITT), before Tadej PogaÄar and Wout van Aert. Jonas Vingegaard was leader in GC.

www.procyclingstats.com

So no power or other data to compare the two rides? I'm not disagreeing I just think the statement seems a bit weak.

 

[Nick2413]

The last climb really shows the difference. But it will different in the second TT for sure, it's totally flat.

So they have them at same overall power with Pogacar at 9% higher speed despite Ganna around 25% heavier, on a climb… sensationalism at its best. Pog was amazing but let’s not pretend he put out the same Watts.

Ganna was not putting out 5.1W/kg LOL, I could do that.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

We will see today what performance can Teddy produce and what is his true climbing level now. He should go all out on Prati di Tivo. Next weeks, not necessarily.

Then again, absolutely crushing the climb may not actually be that good regarding his Tour chances. Oropa and the TT didnt necessarily suggest absolute peak but we will know more after today.

 

[scribers]

He’s probably thinking something closer to 4 minutes lead is safer

 

[Berniece]

Very good TT, didn’t expect him to ride this well and take this much time.

 

[Offline]

He shouldn’t attack today just follow.
He went deep yesterday. Going deep two days in row isn’t smart with the Tour in mind.
Take it as chill you can and let a breakaway go!

 

[YavorD]

Riders who have won back to back TT - MTF?

On top of my head Ivan Basso 2005. Not sure if the stage he won was a MTF but I think.

 

[SHAD0W93]

He’s probably thinking something closer to 4 minutes lead is safer

He’s thinking of what Mou said and measuring the risk to reward.

 

[Savant12]

Does Pog know how to ride conservatively or can he not tame the racer within?

 

[Peyroteo94]

Vingo ‘23 is the greatest ever human performance on a bicycle. Nothing pogi does will ever surpass that

This. Pogacar would have to win this TT by 1.30 minutes to come close.

 

[Red Rick]

Does Pog know how to ride conservatively or can he not tame the racer within?

He knows. People just completely ignore when he does.

 

[dazaau]

This. Pogacar would have to win this TT by 1.30 minutes to come close.

I would go further and argue he would need to win it by more than 3min at the very least given that the stage 16 tdf TT was half the distance and around 32min, and the gap from Jonas to the next best after pogi was 3min (WVA).

I also agree with scribers, it was insane.

 

[Fos]

Probably, because Pogacar himself said in a interview after the Tour France 2023, that he could never do the performance Vingegaard did on that day. He said he could do a little better, but in the best scenario he always would lose 1 minute. He himself said on that interview he can't do the numbers that Vingegaard produced on that day. So yeah, probably you are right.

It was Pogacar who said that in a interview.

Pogi and Jonas's "apparently broken" potentiometer

 

[Fos]

He’s thinking of what Mou said and measuring the risk to reward.

It is curious that the difference yesterday with Bjerg is proportionally similar to that of the famous test at the Valencia velodrome in February.

 

[tobydawq]

For the Tour:

Armstrong in 1999, 2001 and 2004 (three in a row).

Ugrumov in 1994.

Hinault in 1979.

Merckx in 1970.

EDIT: Sorry, read it as mountain stage at first, not MTF. Only Armstrong in 1999 and 2001 then.

Incredible that Alaphilippe of all people have been closest to that since

 

[Salvarani]

He will likely go for it today, if he has great legs today and the stage is up for grabs.

 

[vwpe]

After the flat first 34 km, Ganna was ahead of Pogi by 47".

Ur from denmark i see hehe not sure if i even wanne type cause yeah.. Anyway its called pacing. Thomas lost in last 6km too so did others, the end had more with right pacing than climbing as 1.2 +1.4km is not enough in itself at all, rest downhill and flat so after a very demanding tt it was more about pacing than anything else. 6km with 4.4% overall is poggio ish a terrain ganna is steller in too. We rarely see this distance in GTs anymore. This was very much like last years WC TT. Ganna along with Remco is the benchmark in the worlds of regular TT's like this so its a big thing ofc the rumours have been flying already for a long time from talking to riders about pogacar but neverheless.