105 th Giro di Lombardia. La classica delle foglie morte.

[Tank Engine]

Congratulations to Zaugg. He was certainly helped by Fuglsang being in the earlier break where some of the favourites lost a lot of energy. Given that, he was the strongest on the final climb. If you beat the likes of Danny Boy, JRod and Basso (who had previously had "an armchair ride" up such a climb), then the win is deserved. Special mention to Nibbles, Paolini, Phil, Birdsong and Pozzovivo for animating the race.

 

[El Pistolero]

Zaugg is a bad name to have on a race palmares. But I guess it wasn't that much different than Roubaix this year... Although that was from a breakaway, this wasn't.

It might not be such a bad idea that Lombardia is a week after the Worlds next year... Lombardia had very weak competition this year and all the favorites that were there were obviously tired(or plain stupid, Nibali)

Also don't like the new profile of the race. Too much flat between the climbs. Final climb looks pretty cool though, very narrow and small section of cobbles.

 

[boomcie]

Zaugg is a bad name to have on a race palmares. But I guess it wasn't that much different than Roubaix this year... Although that was from a breakaway, this wasn't.

And Vansummeren had repeatedly shown he was amongst the strongest riders in this particular classic. 8th in 2008, 5th in 2009. Pretty decent I'd say.

 

[theyoungest]

And Vansummeren had repeatedly shown he was amongst the strongest riders in this particular classic. 8th in 2008, 5th in 2009. Pretty decent I'd say.

Yes, but to play a role, you also have to be given a chance. Zaugg has always been a domestique in the classics. Neither Summie nor Zaugg stand a chance if they're in a front group with the favourites on top form.

 

[boomcie]

Yes, but to play a role, you also have to be given a chance. Zaugg has always been a domestique in the classics. Neither Summie nor Zaugg stand a chance if they're in a front group with the favourites on top form.

I'm pretty sure Vansummeren served as a domestique in most of his P-R participations.

Vansummeren always has a good chance of finishing top 10 in P-R, I'd say Zaugg has a pretty low one of doing the same in Lombardia year after year. But that's just me thinking out loud.

I agree with you on that last statement though.

 

[El Pistolero]

Yes, but to play a role, you also have to be given a chance. Zaugg has always been a domestique in the classics. Neither Summie nor Zaugg stand a chance if they're in a front group with the favourites on top form.

That was pretty much my point

That's why I can't blame anything to Roubaix: it was from a breakaway, it was a tactical win. Tactics played a role in Lombardia as well, but in the end, Zaugg was the strongest man in that race. Zaugg...

 

[Escarabajo]

No it ain't amazing. If I were one of these Sky riders I'd be ****ed. Having to work so hard ... for nothing.

I think it's irresponsible to say "You know, boys, you have to do the dirty job for me, but I won't be able to finish it off." Come on !


Trying to win and still lose, that's OK in an "every man for himself" situation, not when it involves domestiques !

I would be ****ed too. Working for a rider that finished 27" behind the winner. He should have known better that he didn't have it after finishing so far behind.

In fact they should start training riders in knowing when they have it or not for the win. It would really make everybody's life easier.

 

[Zinoviev Letter]

I would be ****ed too. Working for a rider that finished 27" behind the winner. He should have known better that he didn't have it after finishing so far behind.

What would you have them do instead?

They had the largest group of riders in the selection, but, really, it isn't as if any of them were a better bet than Uran. Getting Uran into a good position gave them some sort of hope, which is more than any other strategy would have done. Domestiques work for leaders who then don't have it at the end all the time. After all, only one rider wins.

Only six teams had their leader win or make the first chase group. But all of the other leaders had riders there to work for them for what turned out to be nothing Sky only stood out because on the day their domestiques were particularly strong, but they still weren't strong enough to win.

What's more, riders often feel good earlier in a race, only to run out of steam at or before the crucial moment. And they often feel bad only to peddle themselves into it. It isn't an exact science you know. Dan Martin was apparently exhausted at the start of the day, yet he turned out to be the second strongest when the chips were down.

 

[Zinoviev Letter]

Yes, but to play a role, you also have to be given a chance. Zaugg has always been a domestique in the classics. Neither Summie nor Zaugg stand a chance if they're in a front group with the favourites on top form.

That's a bit unfair to JVS. If you have finished 1st, 5th and 10th in a race in a period of four years, you have to be counted as a legitimate favourite. A lower tier favourite, yes, but a legitimate contender. Nobody is going to let him up the road again, that's for sure.

 

[boomcie]

That's a bit unfair to JVS. If you have finished 1st, 5th and 10th in a race in a period of four years, you have to be counted as a legitimate favourite. A lower tier favourite, yes, but a legitimate contender. Nobody is going to let him up the road again, that's for sure.

8th. Not 10th.

 

[Christian]

Zaugg is a great climber who always does the Vuelta, usually as main objective and as only GT of the year. I think very few riders on Saturday had such an ideal build-up to Lombardia.

In order to win Lombardia you have to be on top form, even PhilGil said it. If you're not, then you're simply not a top favourite.

Next year the date of the race will change so naturally there will be other top favourites but if it comes down to the same race situation and he has the same preparation he could definitely do a good result again.

Maybe the new parcours just really works for mountain goats like that, my tipp for next year is Rujano, you heard it here first!

 

[Libertine Seguros]

I think it was more his results in the preceding Italian races that showed the form he was in. He was 9th in the Giro dell'Emilia - in the two-up escape with Betancur, but after being dropped on the final climb he held on to finish with the favourites group that caught him; then 8th in the GP Beghelli and 11th in the Gran Piemonte - neither of which are really suited to his strengths.

 

[Escarabajo]

What would you have them do instead?

They had the largest group of riders in the selection, but, really, it isn't as if any of them were a better bet than Uran. Getting Uran into a good position gave them some sort of hope, which is more than any other strategy would have done. Domestiques work for leaders who then don't have it at the end all the time. After all, only one rider wins.

Only six teams had their leader win or make the first chase group. But all of the other leaders had riders there to work for them for what turned out to be nothing Sky only stood out because on the day their domestiques were particularly strong, but they still weren't strong enough to win.

What's more, riders often feel good earlier in a race, only to run out of steam at or before the crucial moment. And they often feel bad only to peddle themselves into it. It isn't an exact science you know. Dan Martin was apparently exhausted at the start of the day, yet he turned out to be the second strongest when the chips were down.

+1.

I agree with you. I was just being sarcastic.

For people who ride bikes how much is 27"? I would have accepted Echoes comments if he had finished many minutes behind. Of course few seconds is the difference between losing and winning but it is not the difference bewteen knowing if you have it for the win or not. You go to a race with the best plan possible and I think that's what Sky tried to do.

 

[Christian]

A swiss reader on The Inner Ring says Cancellara called in live on swiss-italian TV to congratulate Zaugg on his win

http://inrng.com/2011/10/oliver-zaugg-profil/ (last comment)

 

[Matthijs]

You have to have some results, not winning but some good placings, to get a change. Zaugg did just that the lasts weeks and probably the other captains (Fuglsang, Monfort) knew they didn't had the legs anymore. So he got his one change and took it. Probably not the best name as a race winner, but deserved anyway.

It's not the best thing that nobody focussen enough on a race so a domestique can win. But what really would be worse, is the toppers do not focus and they aren't challenged by domestiques who try to have their one shot!

For next year, I hope Gilbert understands he can't do Sanremo, Ronde, Ardennes, midseason the BC/Tour and then the Vuelta/WC/Lombardia. I think he really wants to be on topform LBL, the tourstage near Liege customized for him and the worlds. Maybe quitting the Tour after the first week is the wisest thing to do. What do you people think?

 

[greenedge]

Zaugg is a bad name to have on a race palmares. But I guess it wasn't that much different than Roubaix this year... Although that was from a breakaway, this wasn't.

It might not be such a bad idea that Lombardia is a week after the Worlds next year... Lombardia had very weak competition this year and all the favorites that were there were obviously tired(or plain stupid, Nibali)

I agree with that Lombardia fact that it might be good after the WC. Especially if Gilbert can hold his form. However the fact is that this race does some have history in the period of Autumn. I know that my quote did say that Zaugg would win from a break and he didn't and he won as the strongest man but still. Thx to Paolini and Nibali for animating the race

 

[Sylvester]

Maybe quitting the Tour after the first week is the wisest thing to do. What do you people think?

is not amused

 

[El Pistolero]

I agree with that Lombardia fact that it might be good after the WC. Especially if Gilbert can hold his form. However the fact is that this race does some have history in the period of Autumn. I know that my quote did say that Zaugg would win from a break and he didn't and he won as the strongest man but still. Thx to Paolini and Nibali for animating the race

Yeah, Paolini did a very good(read: animating) race as well. He needs a Bettini on his side though.

 

[Cult Classics]

You have to have some results, not winning but some good placings, to get a change. Zaugg did just that the lasts weeks and probably the other captains (Fuglsang, Monfort) knew they didn't had the legs anymore. So he got his one change and took it. Probably not the best name as a race winner, but deserved anyway.

It's not the best thing that nobody focussen enough on a race so a domestique can win. But what really would be worse, is the toppers do not focus and they aren't challenged by domestiques who try to have their one shot!

For next year, I hope Gilbert understands he can't do Sanremo, Ronde, Ardennes, midseason the BC/Tour and then the Vuelta/WC/Lombardia. I think he really wants to be on topform LBL, the tourstage near Liege customized for him and the worlds. Maybe quitting the Tour after the first week is the wisest thing to do. What do you people think?

Gilbert was quoted in Gazzetta on Saturday as saying his focus next year is to win the races he hasn't won before. He mentioned San Remo and Flanders as goals, but said his main aim was the World Championships. He wants to go back to Lombardia too and will be riding the Vuelta as prep for this and the Limburg course. He said he would ride the Tour as support for Evans. He didn't mention the Ardennes classics at all, interestingly.

 

[Matthijs]

Gilbert was quoted in Gazzetta on Saturday as saying his focus next year is to win the races he hasn't won before. He mentioned San Remo and Flanders as goals, but said his main aim was the World Championships. He wants to go back to Lombardia too and will be riding the Vuelta as prep for this and the Limburg course. He said he would ride the Tour as support for Evans. He didn't mention the Ardennes classics at all, interestingly.

Last spring, he also said 2x LBL was more important to him then LBL and RvV each once. So I guess he wants to combine them just like last years.

 

[Cult Classics]

Last spring, he also said 2x LBL was more important to him then LBL and RvV each once. So I guess he wants to combine them just like last years.

You'd think that's possible. He skips Roubaix so there's a week off. And then Amstel doesn't require as much effort as Flanders or Liege. If you stopped after Liege and then didn't ride again til early June it might work. Maybe a smaller stage race before the Tour de Suisse or something.

 

[Cult Classics]

Going back to Lombardia itself, I went out to Italy to see the race and really enjoyed it. The new parcours was very fan friendly - we were reliant on the trains and managed pretty easily to see the start, the feed station and the finish (plus catch the last 55km or so on the big screen). We could have swapped the finish for the final climb if we'd wanted. Definitely a more fan-friendly course than in previous years without having to resort to the dreaded laps and finishing circuits - fan access is something that is sometimes overlooked in all the parcours discussions but I thought this new Lombardy route was excellent from that perspective, plus it proved selective too - worthy of a monument.

 

[Echoes]

What would you have them do instead?

Trying to attack and create a smaller chase group which would keep their chances to catch Nibali and win the race. That's the classic evolution of a race.

Don't forget that the likes of Rogers and Lofkvist are sacrificing their own chances of winning the race, while they could apply for it too.

40km to go, is not at the start. Dan Martin should have felt very good in the last part of the race. By the way he had equally as many team mates as Uran and did nothing. He didn't have to, of course. Had he sent his boys before finishing second, I would of course have been disappointed but I would understand.

27 seconds might not be much but there are other telling indications. Like the fact that he did not compete in the sprint of his group and the fact that his helper finished right after him etc. If your boys are working for you, you don't have the right to any mistake. The least you can expect is an attack on the final climb. That never happened.


But, Sweet Jesus, you'll almost make me believe that the Sky's undertaking was a big success !