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2007 Documentary - "Blood and Games"

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Mar 11, 2009
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The Hitch said:
I believe the story, i just am surprised that Armstrong said this in front of them.
I am sure we covered this before in one of many similar conversations (some of which Betsy took part) - can anybody find a link to help Hitch out?
 
Jun 19, 2009
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The Hitch said:
I believe the story, i just am surprised that Armstrong said this in front of them.
A brief rundown:

• It was Sunday 27th October 1996. (Sorry, but 10/2/96 was when LA was diagnosed)

• It was not a hospital bedroom - it was a bigger room in the Hospital, to acccomadate them to watch a Dallas Cowboys game.

• Indiana University Hospital is a training Hospital - the Doctors who entered were not LA's Doctors, Dr. Nichols or Dr. Einhorn.

• When they entered people were getting up to leave but Lance said "its ok, you can stay".

• The Andreus were due to be married later that year - and had an arguement as Betsy wanted to know if Frankie was also using "that shit".

• Only 4 in the room testified during SCA- Lance, Betsy, Frankie & Stephanie McIlvain.

• A reporter called James Startt also testified that McIlvain had recounted the story to him.

• Even though LA said no Doctors entered the room - LA's lawyer suggested that perhaps she overheard the doctors talking about LA's post cancer treatment.

• Dr.Craig Nichols sent in a statement denying the incident - which is true as he was not there.

• The SCA case was held in late 2005 - and resolved in early 2006.

• The Indiana University Cancer Centre received an 'endowment' of $1.5 million from the Lance Armstrong Foundation in October 2005.

• The OHSU where Dr. Nichols worked received a 'grant' of $500,000 from the LAF in May 2006. He is also on the Board of Directors of the LAF.
 
Sep 25, 2009
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Jagers said:
Here are links to the commentary (German and Spanish) that is heard in the Documentary.

I have been unable to upload the other 2 parts of the Documentary (they apparently are too large to be uploaded intact). Does anyone have any recommendations of a sight that will host these LARGE .wav files?!?

Part 1

Part 2

Part3

(Unfortunately you will have to search each of the 3 .pdf files if you wish to match them with the 2 videos I've posted thus far).
thanks, jager. keep up the good work.

ps. altitude, why would you puke over your keyboard when an attractive woman speaks about what she had heard. a believe you now when you told us about being disturbed.
 
Sep 24, 2009
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buckwheat said:
It was after 10/2/96. Armstrong actually showed up at the Cofidis team presentation in early 1997.

Evidently Betsy has a Michigan accent. I think her story fits in with all the rest of the evidence making her a good witness as opposed to McIlvaine who's on the record to James Startt, and taped talking to LeMond, saying the exact same thing, and subsequently denying that.
Dr. Maserati said:
A brief rundown:

• It was Sunday 27th October 1996. (Sorry, but 10/2/96 was when LA was diagnosed)

• It was not a hospital bedroom - it was a bigger room in the Hospital, to acccomadate them to watch a Dallas Cowboys game.

• Indiana University Hospital is a training Hospital - the Doctors who entered were not LA's Doctors, Dr. Nichols or Dr. Einhorn.

• When they entered people were getting up to leave but Lance said "its ok, you can stay".

• The Andreus were due to be married later that year - and had an arguement as Betsy wanted to know if Frankie was also using "that shit".

• Only 4 in the room testified during SCA- Lance, Betsy, Frankie & Stephanie McIlvain.

• A reporter called James Startt also testified that McIlvain had recounted the story to him.

• Even though LA said no Doctors entered the room - LA's lawyer suggested that perhaps she overheard the doctors talking about LA's post cancer treatment.

• Dr.Craig Nichols sent in a statement denying the incident - which is true as he was not there.

• The SCA case was held in late 2005 - and resolved in early 2006.

• The Indiana University Cancer Centre received an 'endowment' of $1.5 million from the Lance Armstrong Foundation in October 2005.

• The OHSU where Dr. Nichols worked received a 'grant' of $500,000 from the LAF in May 2006. He is also on the Board of Directors of the LAF.
Don't go around correcting me dammit!;) I'm with you, knew that it was after 10/2 as Pharmstrong uses that date extensively in his propaganda which mixes truth with fiction.

The point about the "teaching" hospital is very important and shows what a liar Nichols is. He is lying by omission. He knows that medical personnel in training are encouraged to speak with patients. Even for EMT's in training in teaching hospitals, this is part of their clinical requirement. That is, to take vital signs of patients, and speak with them and to be comfortable around them.
 
Mar 11, 2009
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The Hitch said:
And if Lance was taking drugs pre cancer (which i suspected might be the case) why did he only complete the turn from donkey to stallion after his cancer recovery? Is it simply that he wasnt on the Ferrari programme untill 99? still i would have expected better gt results pre cancer, from a future 7 time gt winner already on drugs.
If you believe Betsy (I do) Lance used EPO throughout the 1990's.
Pre-cancer, during cancer, and even shortly after cancer(1999).

But then came Y2K and it appears he switched over to blood doping.
Most of his Tour Victories were won WITHOUT EPO.

The whole "EPO TRANSFORMED LANCE" is so bogus.
Believed by novice cycling fans and haters.
 
Mar 17, 2009
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Polish said:
If you believe Betsy (I do) Lance used EPO throughout the 1990's.
Pre-cancer, during cancer, and even shortly after cancer(1999).

But then came Y2K and it appears he switched over to blood doping.
Most of his Tour Victories were won WITHOUT EPO.

The whole "EPO TRANSFORMED LANCE" is so bogus.
Believed by novice cycling fans and haters.
Either way he was doped then!
 
Mar 4, 2010
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Jagers said:
Here are links to the commentary (German and Spanish) that is heard in the Documentary.

I have been unable to upload the other 2 parts of the Documentary (they apparently are too large to be uploaded intact). Does anyone have any recommendations of a sight that will host these LARGE .wav files?!?

Part 1

Part 2

Part3

(Unfortunately you will have to search each of the 3 .pdf files if you wish to match them with the 2 videos I've posted thus far).
Could you please upload these again? JJ speaks about synthetic hemoglobin in part 3.
 
Oct 25, 2010
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Polish said:
If you believe Betsy (I do) Lance used EPO throughout the 1990's.
Pre-cancer, during cancer, and even shortly after cancer(1999).

But then came Y2K and it appears he switched over to blood doping.
Most of his Tour Victories were won WITHOUT EPO.

The whole "EPO TRANSFORMED LANCE" is so bogus.
Believed by novice cycling fans and haters.

Not true. Microdoses of EPO became (ironically) required to bring balance to the "new" RBC : "old" RBC ratio. Otherwise, they'd get popped for blood doping. The two techniques now go hand-in-hand. And now that IV's are banned, the riders have to also smuggle the IV bags in so they can dilute the smuggled EPO that balances the smuggled blood units. Capiche?
 
Jul 14, 2009
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Tyler'sTwin said:
Could you please upload these again? JJ speaks about synthetic hemoglobin in part 3.
if you need part 3 just watch Bourne Identity same music, lots of pictures not much substance. I saw clips of another similar docudrama made by some students from Freiburg. It may be a little better than this one 4 or5 times more science and less old photos and video of police walking around , slow mo of people running. watching Armstrong do a roll by knowing they went out at 1 min or 90 seconds was awesome. Nothing makes you feel lower than having a guy pass you in a TT like you are standing still
 
Jul 22, 2009
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Jagers said:
I just received this documentary DVD from a friend and am in the process of uploading it on to YouTube. (This is 1 part of 4 total). Too many of you, this may be old news, but I'm guessing there are some who have not had a chance to view it.

This segment discusses Olympic Track and Field, Balco, Commentary by Kelli White, and a discussion on Marion Jones... (Other segments which I will upload get into more cycling content). I believe this is a German documentary so a lot of it is in German (as well as Spanish).

More to follow...

2007 Documentary - "Blood and Games".
Is there any chance of getting these clips in 'English'?
 
Jun 27, 2009
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It really is unfortunate how much hate Betsy Andreu gets. As long as I've followed her and her wars with the fanboys, every appearance indicates she is a sincere person genuinely frustrated with the doping culture and with Lance in particular. While I may not be able to understand her feelings towards Lance, she is in a unique position to understand the pernicious effects of the doping culture and the silence surrounding it.

I guess it's understandable enough cycling fans(boys) have heaped so much hate on her--it's kind of like a stern mother who interrupts a teenager's fun gaming fantasy.
 
Apr 15, 2010
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The Hitch said:
But isnt there any confidentiality law, like with lawyers. Anything said in the room between a doctor and a patient remains in the room?

And why where Frankie and Betsy in the room while Lance was having a conversation with his doctor in the first place?
basically "doctor - patient confidentiality" applies to medical professionals where there is a reasonable expectation of confidentiality (i.e. you can expect your medical history not to leak because the receptionist at the doctor is talking about it) if you have discussions in public places (lunch in a restaurant with doctor) then people nearby who overhear aren't required to keep your conversation confidential.

as i understand it the alleged conversation did not happen in a treatment room, or in LA private room in hospital but some communal area. it was not a meeting with his doctors (who weren't there) but basically it was a conversation with friends that happened to be in a hospital.
 
Jul 28, 2009
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Informative, fascinating and to top it off, has the Ace Ventura soundtrack.

What more could anyone want! :D
 

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