2011 cobbled season

[ingsve]

Since there has been some posts about what riders the different teams have then lest discuss best possible line ups for RVV or Roubaix for the top teams. I'll give it at start but feel free to jump in at any time.

I have used the squads as listed in the CQ ranking transfer pages so there might be some mistakes based on uncertain rumours. In some teams there might be younger riders that get a chance but without knowing much about what type of rider the younger ones are it's hard to know if they fit in.

Sky:
Flecha
Hayman
Thomas
EBH
Arvesen
Wiggins (wants to do roubaix)
Stannard
Hunt

Garmin:
Hushovd
Haussler
Van Summeren
Maaskant
Klier
Hammond
Farrar
Millar

Rabobank:
Breschel
Boom
Wynants
Langeveld
Tjallingi
Van Emden
Leezer
Matthews(?)

Quick Step:
Boonen
Chavanel
Terpstra
De Weert
Maes
Capelle
?
?

They've lost 7 riders for next year that rode either RVV or Roubaix so they look a little thin.

Luxembourg:
Cancellara
Klemme
O'Grady
Posthuma
Stamsnijder
Weylandt
Tosatto
Lund

Vacansoleil:
Devolder
Leukemans
Hoogerland
De Gendt
Marcato
Van Leijen
Gardeyn(?)

BMC:
Ballan
Burghardt
Hincapie
Van Avermaet
Quinziato
Kroon
Schär
Phinney

Saxo Bank:
Nuyens
Larsson
Klostergard
Cooke
Hulsmans (?)
Ista (?)
Haedo (?)

Saxobank not looking to sharp.

 

[auscyclefan94]

ACF. Beware of what your up against. I have it on good authority that half the UCI, ASO and WADA are in DTs pocket.

Just think about how much you like flying the "Cadel is clean flag" before you say something you might regret.

Well if half of them are in DT's pocket then I think we now know who to blame for the uci's mess.

Sky have Flecha, Vacans have Leukemans. BMC have no one of that level. Ok, on paper they do, but for now none of the riders live up to that.

Leukemans? Flecha? Give me a break! Flecha won his first race on cobbles this year and he is suppose to be "awesome" cobbled rider. Leukemans has been consistent over time but has he won a cobbled classic? ballan is better than both of them.

BMC not a strong squad? (Hincapie, Ballan, Phinney, van avermaet, quinziato, Burghardt) better team than sky and vacansoleil.

Flecha > hincapie
Thomas > phinney
Ebh > van avermaet
Arvesen > quinziato
Hayman > burghardt
Add in hunt, stannard and wiggins, maybe sky > bmc?

i think you are very wrong.

Phinney > thomas: Phinney has won two junior paris roubaix's to thomas' one.

Flecha > Hincapie: Flecha only slightly better atm. He won his first cobbled
classic this year. That is saying something.

van avermaet>ebh. Greg has placed and top 10'd in a lot of the classics where as ebh has only won one classic, gent wevelgem. I personally think that AGR should be a big target for Greg van avermaet next year.

Quinziato>arversen: Quinziato is a much stronger work horse imo, has been held back a bit in the past because of pozzato when he was at liquigas.

Burghardt>>>>Hayman: I am sorry to say this but other than this year, Hayman has done alright in the classics but is much older than burghardt. Burghardt is much stronger.

But you ignore Ballan, who has what no one else on that list does. A cobbled monument victory.

Then you have ballan, his results speak for himself. You also forgot karsten kroon who has had some strong results in the big cobbled classics before.

Don't overdo it... Burghardt is much stronger than Hayman, Quinziato is stronger than Arvesen, and up until now Van Avermaet has been stronger than EBH in the actual classics.

Exactly right

Van avermaet hasn't really ever done much apart from appear to be better than he really is. Maybe burghardt is better than hayman, but my point stands re: sky v bmc

Ahhh, no it doesn't! In the classics he has usually been either riding for cadel in the ardennes or wasting his time riding for hoste in the cobbled classics.

3rd E3 Prijs
8th RVV
4th Omloop Het Nieuwsblad.
2nd Tour of Belgium
Won a cobbled stage of that race.

His palmares could be better but lotto were too focused on Hoste doing something for once.

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

Rabobank not any better either. Well they traded up with Breschel instead of Nuyens (and I think potentially better than Flecha too).
But apart from that. I'm sad to say (as his webmaster) that Langeveld had a dissapointing season and doesn't look to make the final step up. And Boom still has his 200/220km limit.
Matthews is too young to expect anything from. Van Emden doesn't look like a cobble specialist to me, he is a tt specialist/rouleur who does well in slightly hilly races as well (in the past at least).
Wynants is a good domestique tough. And I miss Barredo in that list, he usuable in these classics as well

 

[auscyclefan94]

Rabobank not any better either. Well they traded up with Breschel instead of Nuyens (and I think potentially better than Flecha too).
But apart from that. I'm sad to say (as his webmaster) that Langeveld had a dissapointing season and doesn't look to make the final step up. And Boom still has his 200/220km limit.
Matthews is too young to expect anything from. Van Emden doesn't look like a cobble specialist to me, he is a tt specialist/rouleur who does well in slightly hilly races as well (in the past at least).
Wynants is a good domestique tough. And I miss Barredo in that list, he usuable in these classics as well

Rabobank should be very good next year. breschel is a great rider and has a good chance of winning something big in the classics especially because he doesn't have to work for FC.

Langeveld is still young, Boom is still young, van emden is still young and Wynants is a strong rider for the classics.

The experience those guys got from this year in the classics will be very good for rabobank next year and they should be a very strong squad next year in the cobbled classics.

 

[theyoungest]

Rabobank not any better either. Well they traded up with Breschel instead of Nuyens (and I think potentially better than Flecha too).
But apart from that. I'm sad to say (as his webmaster) that Langeveld had a dissapointing season and doesn't look to make the final step up. And Boom still has his 200/220km limit.
Matthews is too young to expect anything from. Van Emden doesn't look like a cobble specialist to me, he is a tt specialist/rouleur who does well in slightly hilly races as well (in the past at least).
Wynants is a good domestique tough. And I miss Barredo in that list, he usuable in these classics as well

Of course Rabo is stronger than last year. Yeah, if you only look at Langeveld, he's plateaued a bit (or even gotten worse), but Breschel makes all the difference. He's bound to win something big next year.

 

[theyoungest]

Van avermaet hasn't really ever done much apart from appear to be better than he really is. Maybe burghardt is better than hayman, but my point stands re: sky v bmc

My point was that thus far, Van Avermaet has actually been better in the classics than EBH. Just look at what he did for Gilbert at the Worlds... EBH was already nowhere to be seen by then.

And I think it's obvious that Burghardt is stronger than Hayman. Hayman is a decent domestique, Burghardt is much more than that.

 

[Mellow Velo]

I see that despite getting just 4 wins this season, ACF hasn't dropped his optimism levels any.
No wonder he already rates neo-pro Phinney above Geraint Thomas. I expect his prediction that he will take either Flanders, Roubaix or both, next season.

At least Ballan shouldn't get KO'd by another doping investigation, next Spring.

 

[Vonn Brinkman]

Ok, predictions.. Here is goes.

Boonen will win Flanders, Cancellara will peak for Roubaix (and win it) and try to win AGR after that.

Not to sure about these. I think it's more likely that someone like Breschel or Gilbert takes the Ronde. Boonen is more for Roubaix, he is more likely to get dropped on a attack during the Ronde than during Roubaix (although we saw both happen this year).
Don't think the Canc will ride AGR. He'll probably try LBL, but won't win. Then he'll take a break after that in time for Suisse and the Tour. I'm not so sure AGR is his thing.

 

[sublimit]

Thomas > Phinny

Thomas has ridden 2 Tours and is a stronger rider at the moment. His performance on stage 3 of last years TDF makes him a better bike rider as Phinny hasnt competed in races of that caliber as of yet.

maybe in a few years he might be as good.

 

[Hugo Koblet]

Gilbert will really show what an amazing rider he is next season. Breschel will be up there but wont win anything important. Hushovd will wheelsuck himself to a couple of top 10 finishes yet again but wont win anything.

 

[PCutter]

A number of the guys being mentioned are too young to win cobbled monuments - irregardless of their talent. Phinney will be lucky to be selected for PR, and if he is, it will be in a role set to pull out by the 150km mark to set up someone else on the team. The race is too long for a neo-pro, he needs a year or two of tough racing before he should even be considered. Probably ditto for Thomas. Both likely to be very competitive down the track, but give them a few more years 'seasoning'. The people winning PR and cobbled classics are 'hard men of the peleton', not talented neo-pro's. Difficult to see past Spartacus, Boonen or Thor - seasoned professionals with strong teams supporting them. That said, I'd love to see some new names really in the mix.

 

[maltiv]

Leukemans? Flecha? Give me a break! Flecha won his first race on cobbles this year and he is suppose to be "awesome" cobbled rider. Leukemans has been consistent over time but has he won a cobbled classic? ballan is better than both of them.

I guess the word you're looking for is "was". It doesn't matter what he has done earlier - the important thing is that he has been terrible the last two seasons. Using his RVV win as an argument for why he is a better classics rider than Flecha is like using Sastre's TDF win two years ago to argue that Sastre is currently a better climber than Andy Schleck...

 

[ingsve]

I guess the word you're looking for is "was". It doesn't matter what he has done earlier - the important thing is that he has been terrible the last two seasons. Using his RVV win as an argument for why he is a better classics rider than Flecha is like using Sastre's TDF win two years ago to argue that Sastre is currently a better climber than Andy Schleck...

Agreed. Just looking at the races last year it was clear that Flecha was among the strongest riders in a lot of climbs. Cancellara and Boonen were usually stronger along with Breschel and Gilbert but Flecha was always there in the first 5-10 riders when the peloton started splitting. The only exception was in RVV where his legs were a little worse than in some of the other clobbled races.

 

[auscyclefan94]

I guess the word you're looking for is "was". It doesn't matter what he has done earlier - the important thing is that he has been terrible the last two seasons. Using his RVV win as an argument for why he is a better classics rider than Flecha is like using Sastre's TDF win two years ago to argue that Sastre is currently a better climber than Andy Schleck...

yes it does matter what he has done in the past. What else are we to judge what he is capable of then?

2009, ballan was out of the classics because of illness and 2010 he just had an average year.

 

[Greenflame]

Not to sure about these. I think it's more likely that someone like Breschel or Gilbert takes the Ronde. Boonen is more for Roubaix, he is more likely to get dropped on a attack during the Ronde than during Roubaix (although we saw both happen this year).
Don't think the Canc will ride AGR. He'll probably try LBL, but won't win. Then he'll take a break after that in time for Suisse and the Tour. I'm not so sure AGR is his thing.

Must admit that the AGR thing is a bit random, but the thing is that Cancellara needs to find a balance between his personal aspirations (winning in the Ardennes) and expectations of his team (winning on the cobbles). Last year his main goal was Flanders, and one week later at Roubaix he was slightly less strong, another week later he didn't ride in the Ardennes. If this year he focusses less on Flanders, tries to win Roubaix to please his team and then rides some Ardennes races to gain experience there. He probably won't win any of them, but it would be good to try.

I don't know if it's realistic, it's just what I think would work for them.

 

[maltiv]

yes it does matter what he has done in the past. What else are we to judge what he is capable of then?

2009, ballan was out of the classics because of illness and 2010 he just had an average year.

I think the reasons as to why he had an average year would be better to discuss in the clinic.

I just don't see Ballan winning or being close to winning a classic ever again. There are probably other classic riders on BMC with better chances, such as GVA and Burghardt. Perhaps even Evans can get a decent placing in RVV if he starts? Judging from his performances on cobbles/mud this year, I think he could do pretty well actually.

 

[The Hitch]

Must admit that the AGR thing is a bit random, but the thing is that Cancellara needs to find a balance between his personal aspirations (winning in the Ardennes) and expectations of his team (winning on the cobbles). Last year his main goal was Flanders, and one week later at Roubaix he was slightly less strong, another week later he didn't ride in the Ardennes. If this year he focusses less on Flanders, tries to win Roubaix to please his team and then rides some Ardennes races to gain experience there. He probably won't win any of them, but it would be good to try.

I don't know if it's realistic, it's just what I think would work for them.

You think he was "slightly less strong" in Roubaix? I dont know. I think the 50km tt against 4 top cobbled riders working together, was more impressive

 

[Greenflame]

Well in Flanders he really dropped everyone. In Roubaix the only one he actually dropped was Leukemans who, strong as he might be, is no Boonen. And that chase.. Well, I won't deminish anything from the fact that Cancellara was impressive, but the chase wasn't amazing. Without the surprise of escaping at the right time he wouldn't have dropped Boonen imo, possibly not even Hushovd and Flecha.

Just my humble observations though, I might be terribly wrong.

 

[Kvinto]

Cancellara was equally great at Ronde and Roubaix. But it’s a delusion to think that riders in chasing group (PR) worked together. In that PR, I‘ve seen, there was Boonen, who tried to do something (unsuccessfully), and other riders who were looking what Boonen can do

 

[Sydney21]

Terpstra and Van Averamat will be the revelations of next years RV and/or PR

 

[happychappy]

irregardless

Hahahahahahahahahahaha. Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha.

 

[ergmonkey]

Pipo doesn't win, not his style. He simply prevents the favourite from winning

I guess that was some other flamboyant Italian winning Milan-San Remo, Het Volk, E3, the National Championships, Cyclassics Hamburg, Tirreno-Adriato, and some Giro and Tour stages.

 

[auscyclefan94]

Terpstra and Van Averamat will be the revelations of next years RV and/or PR

Rvv is a good race for Greg but I am not sure about PR for him. Greg should target AGR. His performances in the recent hilly classics was quite good.

 

[LugHugger]

You think he was "slightly less strong" in Roubaix? I dont know. I think the 50km tt against 4 top cobbled riders working together, was more impressive

What? A great break but in no way did the chasers work together.

 

[Bumeington]

Assuming the canc doesn't ride, I'll say Haussler for ronde and Hushovd for Roubaix