2011 Volta a Catalunya

[Angliru]

You can't compare the two riders form purely based on race programs. Tirreno Adriatico is more shorter climbs. Mrucia and Algarve have more longer climbs. Depends on what training the riders have done and what their targets toady.


I actually disagree. I personally think that AC has quite strong form at the moment. Just my opinion from my observations.

I don't think anyone is saying that he is out of shape and dropping folks simply because he is just that awesome. I think that he is developing the form that he displayed in 2009 when he was dropping everyone in the mountains. He is showing the same early season snap that he had in 2009.
He's stated that he's quite happy at Saxo and with the team's professionalism. As with many a rider a change of team/scenary can sometimes have a truly positive impact on their performance. In 2010, there appeared to be a bit of turmoil and conflict as a result of Contador being locked into a contract and team that he couldn't escape from. In 2011, it appears that being with his new team and racing is a positive escape from the drama that he's dealing with. He has a motivation similar to 2009 to prove himself to the cycling world.

 

[Publicus]

I don't think anyone is saying that he is out of shape and dropping folks simply because he is just that awesome. I think that he is developing the form that he displayed in 2009 when he was dropping everyone in the mountains. He is showing the same early season snap that he had in 2009.
He's stated that he's quite happy at Saxo and with the team's professionalism. As with many a rider a change of team/scenary can sometimes have a truly positive impact on their performance. In 2010, there appeared to be a bit of turmoil and conflict as a result of Contador being locked into a contract and team that he couldn't escape from. In 2011, it appears that being with his new team and racing is a positive escape from the drama that he's dealing with. He has a motivation similar to 2009 to prove himself to the cycling world.

As always, you have a way with words. This is what I was trying to say so crudely in response to ACF.

 

[theswordsman]

Basso hasn't raced against Contador in a GT yet, that's why some people still think he could keep up with him. But of course he can't.

Basso raced Contador at the 2010 Tour, but he was used up from the Giro victory.

People are mentioning this Giro. I'll be rooting for Contador, but expect to see Nibali right there in the fray. Last year he was scheduled for ATOC, planning a TdF peak, until Pellizotti was taken out, and he still finished third while helping Basso. He was able to get in top shape for the Vuelta win.

The edge I give Nibali is reconnaissance. I think it was in December when he was riding the Mount Etna both directions. I just saw yesterday that he was riding some Giro stage or another. He, like a lot of the other Italians, train on Giro stages whenever they have a gap in their racing schedule. Contador will show up ready to race himself into shape, but other guys will know the course better.

Contador is in the Mountain jersey tonight. Will someone try to take it from him while he stays protected in the peloton the next few days?

 

[Cobblestoned]

Basso hasn't raced against Contador in a GT yet, that's why some people still think he could keep up with him. But of course he can't.

For me Basso is of course one of the top3 climbers and GT riders, if he is fully focused and fit.
But Contador is just better, not meaning Basso is not a worldclass climber.

 

[Angliru]

As always, you have a way with words. This is what I was trying to say so crudely in response to ACF.

I was being diplomatic since he's so sensitive.

 

[theyoungest]

Basso raced Contador at the 2010 Tour, but he was used up from the Giro victory.

I know, but that's not what I call racing.

People are mentioning this Giro. I'll be rooting for Contador, but expect to see Nibali right there in the fray. Last year he was scheduled for ATOC, planning a TdF peak, until Pellizotti was taken out, and he still finished third while helping Basso. He was able to get in top shape for the Vuelta win.

The edge I give Nibali is reconnaissance. I think it was in December when he was riding the Mount Etna both directions. I just saw yesterday that he was riding some Giro stage or another. He, like a lot of the other Italians, train on Giro stages whenever they have a gap in their racing schedule. Contador will show up ready to race himself into shape, but other guys will know the course better.

I don't think knowing the climbs will enable Nibali to stay with Contador when he attacks.

For me Basso is of course one of the top3 climbers and GT riders, if he is fully focused and fit.
But Contador is just better, not meaning Basso is not a worldclass climber.

A bit random, when they never race against each other. How do we rank Basso vs. Sammy Sanchez, for instance? I'd give the edge to Sammy.

 

[Cobblestoned]

I am a bit sceptic, but still-sometimes it's nearly impossible to drop Menchov when he is in top form. And his Geox squad should be better than Saxo(though if Riis brings both Sorensens and AC's Spanish domestiques the teams can be nearly equal). Their TTT is a disaster, though.

Menchov of course always the one to watch, and he has a very good team for mountains. If it counts then he is always there in last years.
But his problem is that he loses here a second, and there a second against Alberto.

 

[rhubroma]

Basso hasn't raced against Contador in a GT yet, that's why some people still think he could keep up with him. But of course he can't.

I think so. Which means Alberto is really in a special class (as if this were a mystery).

I say this because it's true, not because I'm a fan.

 

[Delicato]

Menchov of course always the one to watch, and he has a very good team for mountains. If it counts then he is always there in last years.
But his problem is that he loses here a second, and there a second against Alberto.

Yup, he will lose some seconds and will be second in overall GC...only to be promoted to 1st in July. He is notorious of losing considerable chunks of time after rest days, so if he can fix that problem (he stated that maybe it's better to have a harder training ride at rest days), then anything can happen. Still, AC is an outright favourite, of course.

 

[Parrulo]

ya contador seems to be back to 2009 total domination mode. and thats good cus that will force people to try crazy stuff if they want to beat him in the giro. if they wait for the last climb he will be gaining like a minute to every1 in every MTF.

about the basso vs contador
basso vs sami sanchez things i honestly rate basso as third better after contador and schleck on a route like the giro. on a tour like route guys like menchov and sami sanchez are at the same level.

i think this cus i always thought of basso as an endurance/recovery freak. and for those guys the thougher the course the better cus after 3 weeks they will be less tired.

but i dunno where i got this idea so i can be wrong. any1 has the same opinion about basso?

 

[Delicato]

I don't think knowing the climbs will enable Nibali to stay with Contador when he attacks.

+1. Did he make any reconnaissance rides in 2008? Guess not, yet even Ricco lost against him.

 

[Cobblestoned]

I know, but that's not what I call racing.


I don't think knowing the climbs will enable Nibali to stay with Contador when he attacks.


A bit random, when they never race against each other. How do we rank Basso vs. Sammy Sanchez, for instance? I'd give the edge to Sammy.

50% of all talk in cyclingforums is random, till something happened or we have some flawless results.

S.Sanchez is a great rider and I was telling some German forum people that he will win Tour or GT for, I think, at least 4 years till 2010.
That took long, but i am healed now.

Close race, but Basso has better palmares and results till now.
Of course, deep in my mind, I am still hoping for Sammy to do the big thing.

 

[rhubroma]

ya contador seems to be back to 2009 total domination mode. and thats good cus that will force people to try crazy stuff if they want to beat him in the giro. if they wait for the last climb he will be gaining like a minute to every1 in every MTF.

about the basso vs contador
basso vs sami sanchez things i honestly rate basso as third better after contador and schleck on a route like the giro. on a tour like route guys like menchov and sami sanchez are at the same level.

i think this cus i always thought of basso as an endurance/recovery freak. and for those guys the thougher the course the better cus after 3 weeks they will be less tired.

but i dunno where i got this idea so i can be wrong. any1 has the same opinion about basso?

I second the motion.

 

[hrotha]

ya contador seems to be back to 2009 total domination mode. and thats good cus that will force people to try crazy stuff if they want to beat him in the giro. if they wait for the last climb he will be gaining like a minute to every1 in every MTF.

Come on, if Contador proves to be that superior no one will try to pull any crazy moves. They'll say "I can't beat him - oh well, 2nd's pretty good too."

 

[Parrulo]

Come on, if Contador proves to be that superior no one will try to pull any crazy moves. They'll say "I can't beat him - oh well, 2nd's pretty good too."

tru tru tru

but a guy can dream besides if he gets 4 minutes by the time he reach the zoncolan he will "soft pedal" his way till the end of the race so save himself for the tour.

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

Come on, if Contador proves to be that superior no one will try to pull any crazy moves. They'll say "I can't beat him - oh well, 2nd's pretty good too."

exactly, who expects bold moves from guys like menchov or nibali??

still I expect fireworks this giro but only because of androni and scarponi, scarponi and savio are friends and he follows the whole savio philosophy as you can still see with lampre, he hasn;t lost his touch at all.I expect major mayhem in the mountains that saxo can never cover because they aren't strong enough as a team and contador will truly be tested

 

[profff]

about ryo's opinion on alex ardila cano...

Wouldn't this be his 3rd race day? So he has at least two race days in his legs. Not to rain on your parade though

alex ardila cano was a very reputed climber when he was in italy in the under 23 ranks.
he made great impression in giro valle d'aosta, the hardest stage race in that category.
he was supposed to become a grwat climber, stronger than his cousin mauricio. then he lost his way..
last years in asturias he helped a lot fabio duarte doing an impressive work in the queen stage, when fabio finally won.
i think he is better than what ryo think, anyway among tje best colombian climbers.
maybe he found finally his way, to come back as a strong climber , has he showed he could be in his young years in italy.

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

about ryo's opinion on alex ardila cano...



alex ardila cano was a very reputed climber when he was in italy in the under 23 ranks.
he made great impression in giro valle d'aosta, the hardest stage race in that category.
he was supposed to become a grwat climber, stronger than his cousin mauricio. then he lost his way..
last years in asturias he helped a lot fabio duarte doing an impressive work in the queen stage, when fabio finally won.
i think he is better than what ryo think, anyway among tje best colombian climbers.
maybe he found finally his way, to come back as a strong climber , has he showed he could be in his young years in italy.

actually it's quite sad. typical as for italian (and also spanish) amateur cycling unless you have italian passport becoming pro is (almost) impossible in a very racist/nationalist cycling world there. cano won everything there was to win as a climber in italy and even one day races. he won giro valle aosta by literally riding away for minutes in the climbs. he beat guys like dan martin by 4 minutes!! but appearantly it wasn't enough for pro contract. same happened to infantino, ortega, baez and many more in spain and italy that are now top of the bill in colombia.

he returned to colombia disilisionised and last year refound his ways again. in potential he is truly great but like I said I could name 10 riders in colombia better than him. last year he was 8th in vuelta colombia. just imagine what the winner of that race henao could do here...

 

[The Hitch]

YES!!!.

Just saw it. The Great One. Was there ever any doubt???

But most importantly. The Pistol is back !!!!

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

to give you an idea. giro valle aosta 2007:

1 Ardila Alex Norberto Cano (Col) G.S. Unidelta Bottoli Arvedi Garda 19.23.30
2 Vincenzo Ianniello (Ita) G.S. San Marco Concrete Imet Caneva 1.53
3 Mauro Finetto (Ita) Filmop Sorelle Ramonda Parolin 3.44
4 Bedoya Julian Atehortua (Col) G.S. San Marco Concrete Imet Caneva 4.33
5 Daniel Martin (Irl) V.C. La Pomme Marseille 4.52
6 Abreu Rafael Infantino (Col) G.S. Podenzano Juvenes Steriltom 5.50
7 Matteo Montanari (Ita) Team Fidibc.Com Velo Club Arbedo 7.00
8 Angelo Pagani (Ita) Filmop Sorelle Ramonda Parolin 7.06
9 Francis Greef De (Bel) Davitamon Win For Life Jong Vlaanderen 7.51
10 Alessandro Colo' (Ita) Promociclo 10.35

infantino also won 2 stages there and cano the queenstage... infantino will return in april to europe with epm-une team, atehortua now rides for the team of sergio luis henao

here alpe di pampeago in baby giro 2006:
1 Alex Cano Ardila (Col) Maltinti Lampadari Salgomma 3.34.07
2 Matthew Lloyd (Aus) South Australia.com-AIS 1.36
3 Dario Cataldo (Ita) Bedogni Natalini Praga 1.43
4 Dmitro Grabovskyy (Ukr) Finauto Sport Team Casini 2.00
5 Marco Cattaneo (Ita) S.C. Pagnoncelli Ngc Perrel 2.15
6 Mathias Belka (Ger) German National Team 2.25
7 Alessandro Bisolti (Ita) G.S. Palazzago Sacla' Maiet 2.29
8 Fabrizio Galeazzi (Ita) G.S. Zalf Desiree Fior 2.40
9 Emanuele Fornasier (Ita) Marchiol Ima Famila Liquigas 2.45
10 Francesco Gavazzi (Ita) G.S. Unidelta Dmt 3.20

 

[The Hitch]

Did the One Jose crash out?

 

[profff]

actually it's quite sad. typical as for italian (and also spanish) amateur cycling unless you have italian passport becoming pro is (almost) impossible in a very racist/nationalist cycling world there. cano won everything there was to win as a climber in italy and even one day races. he won giro valle aosta by literally riding away for minutes in the climbs. he beat guys like dan martin by 4 minutes!! but appearantly it wasn't enough for pro contract. same happened to infantino, ortega, baez and many more in spain and italy that are now top of the bill in colombia.

he returned to colombia disilisionised and last year refound his ways again. in potential he is truly great but like I said I could name 10 riders in colombia better than him. last year he was 8th in vuelta colombia. just imagine what the winner of that race henao could do here...

ryo, it is not merely a question of racism and nationalism, that of course can play a role.. becoming a pro is mainly a fact of money and relations. many riders just become pro because they pay or they have personal sponsors paying their contract.
that it is it.
unless you come from zalf or from one of the other great teams, whose ds have good relations hips with the pro world, it is very difficult to become a pro just because you are strong.

 

[c&cfan]

actually it's quite sad. typical as for italian (and also spanish) amateur cycling unless you have italian passport becoming pro is (almost) impossible in a very racist/nationalist cycling world there. cano won everything there was to win as a climber in italy and even one day races. he won giro valle aosta by literally riding away for minutes in the climbs. he beat guys like dan martin by 4 minutes!! but appearantly it wasn't enough for pro contract. same happened to infantino, ortega, baez and many more in spain and italy that are now top of the bill in colombia.

he returned to colombia disilisionised and last year refound his ways again. in potential he is truly great but like I said I could name 10 riders in colombia better than him. last year he was 8th in vuelta colombia. just imagine what the winner of that race henao could do here...

ryo,

with all respect, i dont like (or agree) with every single post you make.

first, you say that guys like haedo are as good as cav as sprinters and cav only wins because of his leadout train.
-anyone that watches this sport, knows why he as one leadout train. after knowing the answer, statements like that are really "strange".

second, the way you talk about colombian guys. you only consider what you want (like beating dan martin) and "forget" the rest. maybe one day, one colombian cyclist will have the brains, talent, strengh and class to be up there with the big guns. however, we have no proof to sugest that it will happen in the next 15 years (this is a myth that is still alive after the last colombian great rider, a fluke).

---------------------------------------

about the race.

great win by alberto. we are watching history. to be able to do what he does in modern cycling, even in this "situation", well.. that's evidence that we are watching someone with the potential to be (he's already close) the best stage racer\gt racer ever.

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

ryo, it is not merely a question of racism and nationalism, that of course can play a role.. becoming a pro is mainly a fact of money and relations. many riders just become pro because they pay or they have personal sponsors paying their contract.
that it is it.
unless you come from zalf or from one of the other great teams, whose ds have good relations hips with the pro world, it is very difficult to become a pro just because you are strong.

yes that is also important factos I forgot to mention although in spain it is not much about connectiosn but all about what passport you have. still a team like zalf will only attract italian riders, never any foreigners

 

[luckyboy]

Ooh Quintana + AC level on 42 mountain points. Hope Nairo goes in a few more breaks and gets the jersey at the end of this.