2012 Tour de France: Stage 11: Albertville → La Toussuire - Les Sybelles (148km)

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DominicDecoco said:
Nah, a better mtf would have been preffered but let's wait for the stage to actually develop before calling it bad and 'the worst' of the Tour... On paper the profile is just fine. Up the riders now.

Yep, hopefully the last climb being not that bad relatively speaking will encourage people to launch big attacks on the preceding climb.

Id like to see someone involved in the early crashes, or from a team involved in the early crashes, to to take this. ie, Mollema, vandevelde, Dan Martin, etc.
 
May 19, 2011
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Swifty's Cakes said:
Sky will let somone who is about 10minutes down go in the break so RSNT help chase them down to protect 7th place. Any GC contender who can be bothered to try will have to do it on the last climb.

smart idea, just like RSNT did today:D
 
SafeBet said:
They can't go on the Mollard descent. La Toussure is the perfect climb for high tempo collective riding. Sky would catch them in 3kms at most. Unless of course Sky is just Froome and Wiggo at that point, which seems unlikely to me.

So they can't go on the descent beacuse they'll get catched up La Toussuire..? What you want them to do then? They can't attack on La Toussuire either according to that theory.
 
May 19, 2011
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it is quite possible F and W 1,2, gap all other GC contender at least 30seconds maybe just maybe a few guys can follow them but dropping them is mission impossible right now
 
Apr 8, 2010
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Arnout said:
Descents are too easy and descending in big group will be advantageous.
Any descent in particular you're thinking about?
Of course it's never disadvantageous to be in a group but the descent from Mollard looks to be on small twisty roads. The same goes for (at least the first part) of the Croix de Fer descent.
Arnout said:
Worst stage of the Tour this year in my honest opinion.
As always: Feel free not to watch.
 
This stage looks similar to stage 7 of last years dauphine and Wiggins was very comfortable on la Toussuire without any teammates. I can't see him losing much time to any competitors tomorrow.
 
DominicDecoco said:
So they can't go on the descent beacuse they'll get catched up La Toussuire..? What you want them to do then? They can't attack on La Toussuire either according to that theory.

First, I don't belive there's anything they can do tomorrow to break Sky.
Second, if they really want to try to break them, they need to make multiple attacks on La Toussuire, change the pace, force them to get out of their comfort zone and run out of domestiques.

If they have a one minute advantage before the mtf, Sky will just chase as a team, catch them and then no attack will be made because of lack of energy.
 
Jun 17, 2012
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No mention of Jelle Vanendert yet?

I think this Stage is more appealing to the King of The Mountain Jersey contenders rather than the GC Contenders. Today Vanendert didn't do any work for Jurgen Van Den Broeck and in the final 20k he lost 5 minutes on the bunch. Definitely no crash and he has been backed so far in the odds for tomorrows stage. CAS will probably show some interest but this is the Stage for someone to really take a strong hold on the PolkaDot Jersey and I think Jelle Vanendert fits the bill.

No guarantee he will even get in the break, but at 17+ minutes down in the GC, Sky will have no problems with him going up the road, while Jurgen Van Den Broeck tried a few things today without the help of Vanendert. With the sheer number of points available in the Mountains we will finally see who is targeting this Jersey, rather than someone just ending up with it at the end of the Tour. I don't rate Moncoutie at the Tour De France in recent times and I am not sure he has the form to win a stage like the stage tomorrow.

Vanendert and Jurgen Van Den Broeck have both stated they feel very good and have the legs so I wouldn't be shocked to see Vanendert go up the road early on. As previously stated I expect CAS to be there bobbing around too. Valverde is another possiblity to consider.

As for the GC riders I can't see anyone giving Sky to hard of a time. Nibali seems intent on targeting the downhill sections rather than the climbs themselves while Cadel Evans seems content just sitting on Wiggins back wheel watching what anyone else is trying.

Van Den Broeck is a very good climber anyway, although it seems from comments I am seeing around the web he had slipped under the radar a bit prior to the Tour commencing and he shouldn't get dropped by the favourites climbing the Mountains at this years Tour. Not with Contador and A. Schleck both absent. He looks most likely to try something at the moment on the climbs but no-one seems interested in following him today. Everyone else was just watching what Sky do.

We will see I guess. But hoping Vanendert goes for the King of The Mountains Jersey and has a dig tomorrow.
 
Apr 8, 2010
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SafeBet said:
If they have a one minute advantage before the mtf, Sky will just chase as a team, catch them and then no attack will be made because of lack of energy.

The good thing about attacking in descents is that you use your technical superiority to gain an advantage. If there's nobody up the road before the La Toussuire climb Sky can just ride the same pace they did up Gd Colombier today. If there is someone up the road they'll be forced to tire them self earlier and when/if Nibali or whoever attacked on the descent is caught they'll be more vulnerable to counter attacks.
 
SafeBet said:
First, I don't belive there's anything they can do tomorrow to break Sky.
Second, if they really want to try to break them, they need to make multiple attacks on La Toussuire, change the pace, force them to get out of their comfort zone and run out of domestiques.

If they have a one minute advantage before the mtf, Sky will just chase as a team, catch them and then no attack will be made because of lack of energy.

While I agree that it looks more than difficult to penetrate the armor that is Sky, it's perhaps a bit too pessimistic to rule out any of the top competitors. If they could isolate Sky to two man on Croix Fer they would have something to work with on the two upcoming descents. Obviously, to do that - it's not Boasson Hagen who should be at the front of the peloton...
 
Magnus said:
If there is someone up the road they'll be forced to tire them self earlier and when/if Nibali or whoever attacked on the descent is caught they'll be more vulnerable to counter attacks.

That's true, but then who'd make the counter attacks? Mostly riders they would let go anyway because they're too far back in the GC.

Seriously, either some of the Sky riders have a bad day or it's gonna be tough to break them tomorrow. La Toussuire is the perfect climb for the likes of Wiggo.
 
Jul 2, 2012
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TDF2012, Jelle could do a thing or two, unless VDB needs him.

No doubt that a guy from a breakaway could win tomorrow aswell. But who? Is Dan Martin fit? Moncoutie, Vanendert, Mollema? I saw that Mollema came in 30 minutes late today - is he affected from a crash? Scarponi again? Chris Anker Sørensen? Cobo?

I think watching the GC riders will be boring! :(
 
Apr 8, 2010
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SafeBet said:
That's true, but then who'd make the counter attacks? Mostly riders they would let go anyway because they're too far back in the GC.

Seriously, either some of the Sky riders have a bad day or it's gonna be tough to break them tomorrow. La Toussuire is the perfect climb for the likes of Wiggo.

If they ride like they do it will be hard to brake them. The thing is that Wiggins performs well even on climbs that are very non-perfect for him like Planches des Belles Filles.
 
Btw - If Wiggins gets dropped from the Croix Fer descent (especially if it's dry) he'd be the worst descender of the decade - and I believe we have quite a few candidates for that! It's pretty straightforward, really. High speeds, okay roads and not really technical at all.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WfASJrJyNc8

The Mollard descent, however, should be more difficult. Small roads, trees on both sides, pretty bad vision, shadows - which could create some dirty and slippery roads - and overall pretty technical. This could definitely provide some decent(or should I say descent...) racing! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bcYppAs6ZdI)

Granted it's the right descent I'm watching, obviously.. Couldn't find any other videos than this.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vFttNQ3bi1E
 
Jul 14, 2009
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TDF2012 said:
No mention of Jelle Vanendert yet?

I think this Stage is more appealing to the King of The Mountain Jersey contenders rather than the GC Contenders. Today Vanendert didn't do any work for Jurgen Van Den Broeck and in the final 20k he lost 5 minutes on the bunch. Definitely no crash and he has been backed so far in the odds for tomorrows stage. CAS will probably show some interest but this is the Stage for someone to really take a strong hold on the PolkaDot Jersey and I think Jelle Vanendert fits the bill.

No guarantee he will even get in the break, but at 17+ minutes down in the GC, Sky will have no problems with him going up the road, while Jurgen Van Den Broeck tried a few things today without the help of Vanendert. With the sheer number of points available in the Mountains we will finally see who is targeting this Jersey, rather than someone just ending up with it at the end of the Tour. I don't rate Moncoutie at the Tour De France in recent times and I am not sure he has the form to win a stage like the stage tomorrow.

Vanendert and Jurgen Van Den Broeck have both stated they feel very good and have the legs so I wouldn't be shocked to see Vanendert go up the road early on. As previously stated I expect CAS to be there bobbing around too. Valverde is another possiblity to consider.

As for the GC riders I can't see anyone giving Sky to hard of a time. Nibali seems intent on targeting the downhill sections rather than the climbs themselves while Cadel Evans seems content just sitting on Wiggins back wheel watching what anyone else is trying.

Van Den Broeck is a very good climber anyway, although it seems from comments I am seeing around the web he had slipped under the radar a bit prior to the Tour commencing and he shouldn't get dropped by the favourites climbing the Mountains at this years Tour. Not with Contador and A. Schleck both absent. He looks most likely to try something at the moment on the climbs but no-one seems interested in following him today. Everyone else was just watching what Sky do.

We will see I guess. But hoping Vanendert goes for the King of The Mountains Jersey and has a dig tomorrow.

There's no way Vanendert will go in the break unless VDB is planning a long range attack.
 
TDF2012 said:
No mention of Jelle Vanendert yet?

I think this Stage is more appealing to the King of The Mountain Jersey contenders rather than the GC Contenders. Today Vanendert didn't do any work for Jurgen Van Den Broeck and in the final 20k he lost 5 minutes on the bunch. Definitely no crash and he has been backed so far in the odds for tomorrows stage. CAS will probably show some interest but this is the Stage for someone to really take a strong hold on the PolkaDot Jersey and I think Jelle Vanendert fits the bill.

No guarantee he will even get in the break, but at 17+ minutes down in the GC, Sky will have no problems with him going up the road, while Jurgen Van Den Broeck tried a few things today without the help of Vanendert. With the sheer number of points available in the Mountains we will finally see who is targeting this Jersey, rather than someone just ending up with it at the end of the Tour. I don't rate Moncoutie at the Tour De France in recent times and I am not sure he has the form to win a stage like the stage tomorrow.

Vanendert and Jurgen Van Den Broeck have both stated they feel very good and have the legs so I wouldn't be shocked to see Vanendert go up the road early on. As previously stated I expect CAS to be there bobbing around too. Valverde is another possiblity to consider.

As for the GC riders I can't see anyone giving Sky to hard of a time. Nibali seems intent on targeting the downhill sections rather than the climbs themselves while Cadel Evans seems content just sitting on Wiggins back wheel watching what anyone else is trying.

Van Den Broeck is a very good climber anyway, although it seems from comments I am seeing around the web he had slipped under the radar a bit prior to the Tour commencing and he shouldn't get dropped by the favourites climbing the Mountains at this years Tour. Not with Contador and A. Schleck both absent. He looks most likely to try something at the moment on the climbs but no-one seems interested in following him today. Everyone else was just watching what Sky do.

We will see I guess. But hoping Vanendert goes for the King of The Mountains Jersey and has a dig tomorrow.


A couple of things to take into account. If Vanendert goes in a long break, chances are Sky won't let him go, because they will smell the trouble a mile away. Jurgen bridges and rides off with Jelle (who waits for his leader) pulling him for all he's worth. Even if Jelle wants to go for stagewin, this is a scenario Sky needs to consider, and i doubt they'll just let him go. Even if they would be able to catch them, it wouldn't be Bo Hagen doing the work, chances are Froomie would need to step up, leaving his leader exposed.

Furthermore, if Jelle goes in a long break, who is going to join him and who is going to ride? For instance, had he felt good and been in the break on wednesday with Voeckler&co, he would have dropped them like a bad habbit and freewheeled towards the finish, backwards, while reciting Shakespeare. So who would ride with him? Not many. So if Jelle attacks, i think it will be on the last climb or maybe in the last K's of the penultimate climb. My 2 cents.

As for Jurgens climbing abilities. I don't see anyone tempo-climb him off easily, unless he's exhausted (previous day attack, attack earlier in the stage, comeback from a mechanical like on stage 7...). But he can't keep up with the true climbers tempo attacks (cfr Contador), he might not lose that much time afterwards, but he will certainly be gapped initially. He just doesn't have the needed gunpowder in his legs.