2013 Speculation (and confirmation) thread - rider schedules and parcours

[theyoungest]

I know that he's finished well in those races, but he's never immediately reacted well to any attack or accelleration, he's only got one tempo. That doesn't mean he can't get results. But the reason he doesn't ride the classics any more is that even in his best form he can't win one. He's a rider with solid climbing and good TT, he needs to ride one week races ftw before he even attempts a grand tour classification. GT's and classics haven't been very kind to him after all.

Depends on his form. He does have a snappy accelleration sometimes, and sometimes he absolutely doesn't. It's a bit unpredictable. But this discussion is as old as the guy's career.

 

[El Pistolero]

Gilbert could have won RvV in 2011, if the finish would've been a few kms after the Bosberg. The Ronde doesn't necessarily reward the strongest rider,
the AGR does that more often with the Cauberg-finish. Gilbert is often the strongest (cobbled) hilly rider, without getting the win.

And AGR having a better field is a simple fact, most of the riders who did the Ronde are there, plus a lot of climbers who never ride the cobbles.

Uhm, only a fact to the Dutch it seems.

Ballan, Boonen, Cancellara, Pozzato and Devolder have almost never ridden the AGR in their prime years. Cancellara/Chavanel were the strongest in the Ronde in 2011. Gilbert has never been the strongest in the Ronde van Vlaanderen in his life. What a post of nonsense.

Guess what, the finish isn't right after the Bosberg or the Paterberg and that's why the Ronde van Vlaanderen is actually decent to watch unlike the AGR.

Cyclists like Joquim Rodriguez or Nibali would never stand a chance in the Ronde van Vlaanderen. I've never even heard of a cyclist trying to peak for the AGR. Once the cobbled guys have done the Ronde van Vlaanderen and Roubaix their peak is over.

Here's the top ten of the WC in Valkenburg:

1. Philippe Gilbert Belgium 6h 10' 41"
2. Edvald Boasson Hagen Norway + 4"
3. Alejandro Valverde Spain + 5"
4. John Degenkolb Germany + 5"
5. Lars Boom Netherlands + 5"
6. Allan Davis Australia + 5"
7. Thomas Voeckler France + 5"
8. Ramūnas Navardauskas Lithuania + 5"
9. Sergio Henao Colombia + 5"
10. Óscar Freire Spain + 5"

Bolded have ridden the Ronde van Vlaanderen this year. Allan Davis and Navardauskas didn't ride the Ronde or AGR. And I don't think anyone missed Henao at the Ronde van Vlaanderen.

 

[Eshnar]

Uhm, only a fact to the Dutch it seems.

Ballan, Boonen, Cancellara, Pozzato and Devolder have almost never ridden the AGR in their prime years. Cancellara was the strongest in the Ronde in 2011. Gilbert has never been the strongest in the Ronde van Vlaanderen in his life. What a post of nonsense.

Guess what, the finish isn't right after the Bosberg or the Paterberg and that's why the Ronde van Vlaanderen is actually decent to watch.

Cyclists like Joquim Rodriguez or Nibali would never stand a chance in the Ronde van Vlaanderen.

Nibali doesn't stand a chance in AGR too

 

[El Pistolero]

Nibali doesn't stand a chance in AGR too

He did very well at the WC.

As a Belgian gregario.

 

[theyoungest]

Uhm, only a fact to the Dutch it seems.

Ballan, Boonen, Cancellara, Pozzato and Devolder have almost never ridden the AGR in their prime years. Cancellara was the strongest in the Ronde in 2011. Gilbert has never been the strongest in the Ronde van Vlaanderen in his life. What a post of nonsense.

Guess what, the finish isn't right after the Bosberg or the Paterberg and that's why the Ronde van Vlaanderen is actually decent to watch unlike the AGR.

Cyclists like Joquim Rodriguez or Nibali would never stand a chance in the Ronde van Vlaanderen. I've never even heard of a cyclist trying to peak for the AGR. Once the cobbled guys have done the Ronde van Vlaanderen and Roubaix their peak is over.

Here's the top ten of the WC in Valkenburg:

1. Philippe Gilbert Belgium 6h 10' 41"
2. Edvald Boasson Hagen Norway + 4"
3. Alejandro Valverde Spain + 5"
4. John Degenkolb Germany + 5"
5. Lars Boom Netherlands + 5"
6. Allan Davis Australia + 5"
7. Thomas Voeckler France + 5"
8. Ramūnas Navardauskas Lithuania + 5"
9. Sergio Henao Colombia + 5"
10. Óscar Freire Spain + 5"

Bolded have ridden the Ronde van Vlaanderen this year. Allan Davis and Navardauskas didn't ride the Ronde or AGR. And I don't think anyone missed Henao at the Ronde van Vlaanderen.

It's always some kind of national pride thing with you, oh don't touch the Ronde, the Amstel Gold Race sucks! Yes it does, problem is, we don't care

It's not a national event like the Ronde is in Belgium. It just has a stronger field. I don't see how there's any discussion about that? Naming a few cobbles specialists hardly changes that. I mean, for god's sake, Devolder!?

 

[El Pistolero]

It's always some kind of national pride thing with you, oh don't touch the Ronde, the Amstel Gold Race sucks! Yes it does, problem is, we don't care

It's not a national event like the Ronde is in Belgium. It just has a stronger field. I don't see how there's any discussion about that? Naming a few cobbles specialists hardly changes that. I mean, for god's sake, Devolder!?

Beats Ivanov and Gasparotto.

I don't see that strong field at the AGR sorry. Most of the field isn't concerned with winning that race. And like you said, the race isn't similar to the Ronde van Vlaanderen like Ryo and Pentacycle have been claiming. They're 2 different races with some similarities, but many differences.

Not even in Belgium do we have that much road obstacles on the road nor are there cars parked alongside the road. That's what AGR is most famous for after all...

Come back to me when the AGR changes name and the finish isn't on the Cauberg anymore. Then it will become a really big race.

If the Cauberg was 12km from the finish Boonen could probably win the AGR if he peaked for it. As of right now, only a small handful of people can win the AGR.

I don't think the AGR sucks as for as classics go, but when someone compares it to a Monument... Yeah, then it sucks.

 

[maltiv]

Emilia isn't really a hilly classic. The best hills rider in the world, Gilbert, probably can't win it. It's more of a mountain stage.

Maybe it's better to use Tirreno as an example of a hilly race where Löfkvist did very well. Löfkvist is reasonable in the hills, and it's certainly not only due to his MTB skills that he did so well in Strade Bianche.

Sure, he is reasonable in hills, but I'm still quite sure he wouldn't have done so well in Strade Bianche without the gravel parts, which was my point. Also in Giro 2011, when he sucked, he was still one of the strongest on the Strade Bianche stage...

 

[Vino attacks everyone]

Beats Ivanov and Gasparotto.

yea... no. Very different types of riders.

 

[El Pistolero]

yea... no. Very different types of riders.

Different as in better?

I know Devolder has been a joke for the last 2 years, but he still won:

- Won 5 stage races
- Won multiple time trials
- Wore leaders jersey in Vuelta plus 11th in GC
- Won 2 Monuments with the Ronde van Vlaanderen
- 2 National RR titles in direct battles with Boonen and Gilbert
- Top 10 in Paris-Roubaix

So, all in all, he's basically better than Ivanov and Gasparotto in just about everything. For now.

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

Depends on his form. He does have a snappy accelleration sometimes, and sometimes he absolutely doesn't. It's a bit unpredictable. But this discussion is as old as the guy's career.

no he does not. he only had one as an u23 and junior. never since.

 

[Vino attacks everyone]

Different as in better?

I know Devolder has been a joke for the last 2 years, but he still won:

- Won 5 stage races
- Won multiple time trials
- Wore leaders jersey in Vuelta plus 11th in GC
- Won 2 Monuments with the Ronde van Vlaanderen
- 2 National RR titles in direct battles with Boonen and Gilbert
- Top 10 in Paris-Roubaix

So, all in all, he's basically better than Ivanov and Gasparotto in just about everything. For now.

AGR is a race where the final push is 95% of the race (with some exceptions)

There is very few people that is better than Gaspa on that type of terrain (Sagan, Gilbert, EBH, Valverde perhpas). RVV you need alot of luck and the tactics must be perfect. AGR you almost certainly need to be the best that day, this do not apply to RVV

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

AGR is a race where the final push is 95% of the race (with some exceptions)

There is very few people that is better than Gaspa on that type of terrain (Sagan, Gilbert, EBH, Valverde perhpas). RVV you need alot of luck and the tactics must be perfect. AGR you almost certainly need to be the best that day, this do not apply to RVV

this puts it very well. as we also saw this year boonen winning the rvv, while not being the strongest.

 

[Vino attacks everyone]

this puts it very well

thank you, this comment made my day

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

thank you, this comment made my day

no proh\blem also the comment about boonen I put there will make el calimero's day. can't wait for his reaction

 

[El Pistolero]

AGR is a race where the final push is 95% of the race (with some exceptions)

There is very few people that is better than Gaspa on that type of terrain (Sagan, Gilbert, EBH, Valverde perhpas). RVV you need alot of luck and the tactics must be perfect. AGR you almost certainly need to be the best that day, this do not apply to RVV

Yeah, so you also say AGR and the Ronde are different races?

Funny how Ryo agrees with you considering he said Ronde and AGR are basically the same only AGR has a better field. LOL.

Ok, Gaspa IS better in an uphill sprint. But Devolder beats him in most other things, at least the Devolder of 2008-2010. The current Devolder is a joke.

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

Yeah, so you also say AGR and the Ronde are different races?

Funny how Ryo agrees with you considering he said Ronde and AGR are basically the same only AGR has a better field. LOL.

Ok, Gaspa IS better in an uphill sprint. But Devolder beats him in most other things, at least the Devolder of 2008-2010. The current Devolder is a joke.

yes I guess you don't understand the word BASICALLY, which means it is very similar but in some things different.

 

[El Pistolero]

yes I guess you don't understand the word BASICALLY, which means it is very similar but in some things different.

Adverb
In the most essential respects; fundamentally: "a basically simple idea".
Used to indicate that a statement summarizes the most important aspects of a more complex situation.

Yeah, no.

You say AGR is 95% uphill(you agreed with Vino attacks everyone) and then you say AGR is basically the same as the Ronde van Vlaanderen even though you also agreed that the Ronde is a more tactic race because it doesn't finish uphill.

Man, you contradict your self faster than Popeye eats spinach.

I yam what I yam.

 

[Vino attacks everyone]

Yeah, so you also say AGR and the Ronde are different races?

?
well yea, I just responded on your unfair treatment of Gaspa

 

[El Pistolero]

?
well yea, I just responded on your unfair treatment of Gaspa

Hardly unfair. Gaspa is better in uphill finishes and since his third place in LBL also better in that race(although Devolder has never taken LBL seriously because Flanders is his home race). But overall, it's definitely Devolder. Well, the one of 2 years ago. Just about everyone is better than Volderke now.

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

Adverb
In the most essential respects; fundamentally: "a basically simple idea".
Used to indicate that a statement summarizes the most important aspects of a more complex situation.

Yeah, no.

You say AGR is 95% uphill(you agreed with Vino attacks everyone) and then you say AGR is basically the same as the Ronde van Vlaanderen even though you also agreed that the Ronde is a more tactic race because it doesn't finish uphill.

Man, you contradict your self faster than Popeye eats spinach.

I yam what I yam.

no the agr the rider with strongets push wins, tour of flanders, this can be someone else.

 

[El Pistolero]

no the agr the rider with strongets push wins, tour of flanders, this cab be someone else.

Ivanov won in 2009 despite Phil having a better push.

Then there's Schumacher and Frank Schleck...

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

Hardly unfair. Gaspa is better in uphill finishes and since his third place in LBL also better in that race(although Devolder has never taken LBL seriously because Flanders is his home race). But overall, it's definitely Devolder. Well, the one of 2 years ago. Just about everyone is better than Volderke now.

I think you are really the only one who thinsk devolder is or 3was better than gasparotto. also 2-3 years ago, which the only reason he won flanders was because he was boonens teammate

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

Ivanov won in 2009 despite Phil having a better push.

Then there's Schumacher and Frank Schleck...

no. gilbert dropped on the keuteberg. so the strongest went to teh cauberg and the strongest of those, which was ivanov, won.

 

[Vino attacks everyone]

Hardly unfair. Gaspa is better in uphill finishes and since his third place in LBL also better in that race(although Devolder has never taken LBL seriously because Flanders is his home race). But overall, it's definitely Devolder. Well, the one of 2 years ago. Just about everyone is better than Volderke now.

Well Gaspa has never really tried the RVV either. He is a good mountain domestique in the half hard mountains (this yer often the last man for Tira/Kreuziger in the giro) so his peak goes from AGR to after all the giro, instead of over the classics

 

[Pentacycle]

no. gilbert dropped on the keuteberg. so the strongest went to teh cauberg and the strongest of those, which was ivanov, won.

Yeah Ivanov attacked 4 times or more that day, but over the last 3 years GIlbert has become better and better. The 2009 Gilbert is in no way comparable to the one from 2011 and later.

And GIlbert will probably be a factor in the Ronde as well if he's on form, with the hard course, only the Kwaremont doesn't perfectly suit him.