2014 Tour of Oman, Feb. 18-22 (2.HC)

[willbick]

Sam bennett is the best irish rider since.....

 

[wirral]

Leigh Howard DNF.

 

[The Hitch]

Tour 2011? Tour 2010?

I think that must be a typo, no way you said Tour 2010 was better than the 2010 Giro. 2010 Tour was below average. 2010 Giro was one of the greatest gts ever.

The first week alone was better than most grand tours this millenium and better than the Tour that year, began with a very good and close prologue in a great setting and four different leaders in the first 5 stages, and some gc contenders losing time (Evans), and some major time - Uran.
That week also had one of best the sprint breakaway cat and mouse games ever, which lasted 30k and had 3 nobodies hold of the sprinters by a hair, an admitedly average Mtf though not much worse than Tourmalet that year, and the historic Moltalcino mud slug which created more gc gaps and epic racing.

The second week, with a tough act to follow, only had the most significant gt stage in modern cycling history where all the favourites including the entire top 5 on gc lost nearly 10 minutes to the other half of the peloton, catapulting several other riders into contention, which set up the rest of the gt to be a legend. It had the crisis of no Italian stage winner in the entire race halfway through, finally solved with 5 straight stage wins. To finish, one of the few great downhill finish stages we have had in a long long time in this sport where the gc guys were duelling from 30k out, and the next day a slug up the greatest climb in cycling where the new race favourite loses 3 minutes, Basso cracks Evans, massive gaps, all in front of hunderds of thousands of wild tifosi

All in the setting of the actual gc leader way ahead on gc meaning the duel isnt just between gc rivals, but between groups of gc rivals - the originals at the top of the mountain and the Laquilla survivors lower down.

Then in the third week, gc battle resumed in a fantastic time trial up a mountain so steep it can't hold a regular stage, a breakway win, a sprint and one of the great gt showdowns of the modern era, with the contenders starting the war 40k out on the Mortirolo, one of the major contenders - Evans sensationally cracking on the mountain, the leader Arroyo cracking, read his last rights, coming back with the greatest descent in recorded history, then losing it all again to a small group of 3 who did a 35 k ttt to the stage win. A farewell to Gibo on a below average mountain stage won by a break, settling the KOM, and a close tt for the stage and podium placing, followed by what im guessing may be the greatest gt finish location ever in a packed Roman Ampithearter cum stadium closed the race.

To summarize, everything one could ever dream for from a gt and more, including plenty of things (gc attacks from 40k out, contested descent finishes, massive gc gaps, lead changes, we just dont see in modern cycling anymore).

It had 19 different riders win stages (only Farrar won more than 1 ) out of 20 individual stages, by far the most of any gt since god knows when.
It also had 7 different gc leaders.

I would like to see you make a case for the 2010 Tour and compare it to this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xlZbsmRzMqA

 

[The Hitch]

Dude, i saw the whole Giro. If you red my whole post, i said the Giro 2010 was really good, but 2011 was just boring in terms of first place in GC. Yeah, we did saw a nice stage to Val di Fassa, but did you ever had the idea they could crack Conta?

Tour 2011 had lots of action on several days. Remember the stages to Alpe d'Huez, Galibier, or the crazy descent to Pinerolo? Or the hectic first week where a lot of GC guys crashed and saw there dreams shattered? Or the exciting last TT? Only the Pyrenees were quite boring, but still we saw a nice win for Sammy in front of his homecrowd.

Did you saw the whole Tour, dude?

I don't neccesarily disagree that the Tour was better that year, but you are overselling it.

First of all, all the stages you mention were final week. In fact all 4 were back to back Tuesday Pinerolo, Wed rest day, Thursday Galibier, Friday Alpe, saturday last tt.

What about the first 16 days then? Well day 16 was Gap which was maybe you mixed up with Pinerolo since they were near identical finishes, but Gap was better with the stage Garmin 1-2 being very good and Contador totally cracking Andy and almost all other gc riders essentially winning Evans the Tour that stage. Pinerolo was **** and a solo win, nothing on the climb, apart from the descent where Voeckler rode into a garden and Contador and Sanchez got a gap but then lost it.

But before that? Nothing, in fact absolutely horrible 3 Pyrannees stages, some of the dullest weve seen.

And crashes you say. Were they that significant? Who crashed out? Wiggins who wasnt seen as a favourite at the time outside of ITV 4 studios, VIno who was old and only wanted the yellow jersey for a day. Jurgen Van den broeck, tragically denied his life dream of riding a boring invisiable gt into 5th place (which he probably wouldnt have got) and then retiring till next summer. Basso crashed before the race and the Condor (god its a long time since i typed that on here) crashed, said he was ok then just faded in the mountains.
Maybe, if you wanna run wild with it, we can count Contador being elbowed off his bike by Karpets.

These guys crashing really wasnt that big a deal, and aside from that the first 2 weeks were a snoozefest. So many sprints, a few small hills. All s.t finishes until the mountains, outside the ttt where several gc teams still managed to somehow all finish with the exact same time of a 5 seconds. Frank got like 20 seconds on Luz, Andy got 3 on Plateau (clap clap).

The good stages?
Gap was well above expectations.
Pinerolo, less happened than expected, actually. The gc guys finish together sans Voeckler. Before the hype was that everyone else, smelling blood, was going to put Andy's top 10 spot let alone yellow jersey dreams to the sword with the climb and descent.
Galibier, was great but not legendary (and no one would rate it as such if Evans hadn't been one of the protagonists), where aside from Andy the whole peloton almost was still there at the foot of the Galibier.
Alpe was the best first 20 minutes to a stage ever. Without that it would maybe even be the worst Alpe d huez stage ever. Evans and Schleck actually talking to eachother as they ride up and finish st.
TT- Andy didn't really put up a fight. Evans took the gc very easily in the end. All the intrigue was gone by the first timecheck.

Giro on the other hand, less very good stages (say 3-4 in the TDF), mainly due to no gc battle, but one standout stage - Gardeccia (Sestrieres) and at the same time only one disapointing stage - Sestrieres. The other stages all met expectations (apart from Crostis being abandoned of course)

So there wasnt much difference imo, but I can accept Tour being better that year because of gc battle. It has also been better last 2 years (or to rephrase, it, last 2 years it has been so very slightly less worse).

 

[Arredondo]

I think that must be a typo, no way you said Tour 2010 was better than the 2010 Giro. 2010 Tour was below average. 2010 Giro was one of the greatest gts ever.

The first week alone was better than most grand tours this millenium and better than the Tour that year, began with a very good and close prologue in a great setting and four different leaders in the first 5 stages, and some gc contenders losing time (Evans), and some major time - Uran.
That week also had one of best the sprint breakaway cat and mouse games ever, which lasted 30k and had 3 nobodies hold of the sprinters by a hair, an admitedly average Mtf though not much worse than Tourmalet that year, and the historic Moltalcino mud slug which created more gc gaps and epic racing.

The second week, with a tough act to follow, only had the most significant gt stage in modern cycling history where all the favourites including the entire top 5 on gc lost nearly 10 minutes to the other half of the peloton, catapulting several other riders into contention, which set up the rest of the gt to be a legend. It had the crisis of no Italian stage winner in the entire race halfway through, finally solved with 5 straight stage wins. To finish, one of the few great downhill finish stages we have had in a long long time in this sport where the gc guys were duelling from 30k out, and the next day a slug up the greatest climb in cycling where the new race favourite loses 3 minutes, Basso cracks Evans, massive gaps, all in front of hunderds of thousands of wild tifosi

All in the setting of the actual gc leader way ahead on gc meaning the duel isnt just between gc rivals, but between groups of gc rivals - the originals at the top of the mountain and the Laquilla survivors lower down.

Then in the third week, gc battle resumed in a fantastic time trial up a mountain so steep it can't hold a regular stage, a breakway win, a sprint and one of the great gt showdowns of the modern era, with the contenders starting the war 40k out on the Mortirolo, one of the major contenders - Evans sensationally cracking on the mountain, the leader Arroyo cracking, read his last rights, coming back with the greatest descent in recorded history, then losing it all again to a small group of 3 who did a 35 k ttt to the stage win. A farewell to Gibo on a below average mountain stage won by a break, settling the KOM, and a close tt for the stage and podium placing, followed by what im guessing may be the greatest gt finish location ever in a packed Roman Ampithearter cum stadium closed the race.

To summarize, everything one could ever dream for from a gt and more, including plenty of things (gc attacks from 40k out, contested descent finishes, massive gc gaps, lead changes, we just dont see in modern cycling anymore).

It had 19 different riders win stages (only Farrar won more than 1 ) out of 20 individual stages, by far the most of any gt since god knows when.
It also had 7 different gc leaders.

I would like to see you make a case for the 2010 Tour and compare it to this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xlZbsmRzMqA

Really nice post, and i pretty much agree with you concerned the Giro 2010. I think that Giro was one of the best GT's in the last 20 years. The thing i get irritated about, is that the Tour is downgrade so much, in favour of the Giro. Ok, some Tour's the last 10 years were quite boring, but i can remember horrible Giro's as well, like 2012 and the Giro this year. I think 2011 wasn't that spectaculair, but that's just personal.

I rather see a true GC fight, instead of someone who is way better then the rest of the field. After Etna (or even before that), you knew who won the Giro. Of course, it's nice that Contador is such a attacking rider, but it doesn't make it that spectaculair. True, the stage to Gardecchia was really good, already on the slopes of the Gavia, but on the second last climb (Fedaia), you just had Contador-Rujano-Kruiswijk, a group containing the other GC guys and Nibbles who was riding at 10/15 seconds adrift. That situation was lasting the whole climb. Still good, but you can look it at different ways.

The Giro 2010 indeed had everything. Fight between the GC guys, crazy stages, especially the stage to L'Aquila. Thanks to that stage, we had two races in a race, namely a race between the climbers during that Tour (Basso, Scarponi, Evans, Nibali), but also to catch Arroyo, who had a big advantage in GC.

However, i still think the Tour 2010 was pretty good. Of course, the stage to Ans didn't provided much spectacle in the sense that GC guys were were challenging each other on Redoute and Rosier, but still there were a lot of crashes, and it looked for a second that Andy wasn't able to come back. Also the fact that Cancellara managed to convince the Rabo and Cervelo guys not to work at the front, was something that caused controversy. I'm not saying this is a classic fight for GC which everyone (including me) wants to see, but it was still a nice opener.

The stage to Arenberg was one of the best stages of the year, because a lot of things happened (Frank Schleck crashed, Andy who was in the right break, Contador and Armstrong wo were not, the puncture of Armstrong, Vino who didn't wait at Contador at the finish).

The first medium mountainstage to Station des Rousses was boring, the first Alpine stage to Morzine wasn't that spectaculair, but we still saw the fall of Armstrong. The second Alpine stage was really good, with a 'Evans Giro 2002' situation, and a good fight between Andy and Alberto, and Sammy who had cramps and desperately tried to catch the two. In the end the two climbers even managed to catch the leaders.

The stage to Mende was good because Purito won (), and Alberto struck Andy mentally. The pyrenees were so-so, a boring stage (Pau), but a nice descent of Port de Bales, a ''sur-place'' on Ax-3 Domaines and a decent stage to Tourmalet. I agree with you that they only wait till the last climb, but mainly because Contador wasn't that good and Andy doesn't dare to attack from far out.

I forgot that the first 60/70 k of the stage to Pau were spectaculair, with groups all over the place. It was really disappointed that after the Aspin, the Tour-organisation managed to ****ed up the stage so badly.

 

[The Hitch]

Really nice post, and i pretty much agree with you concerned the Giro 2010. I think that Giro was one of the best GT's in the last 20 years. The thing i get irritated about, is that the Tour is downgrade so much, in favour of the Giro. Ok, some Tour's the last 10 years were quite boring, but i can remember horrible Giro's as well, like 2012 and the Giro this year. I think 2011 wasn't that spectaculair, but that's just personal.

I rather see a true GC fight, instead of someone who is way better then the rest of the field. After Etna (or even before that), you knew who won the Giro. Of course, it's nice that Contador is such a attacking rider, but it doesn't make it that spectaculair. True, the stage to Gardecchia was really good, already on the slopes of the Gavia, but on the second last climb (Fedaia), you just had Contador-Rujano-Kruiswijk, a group containing the other GC guys and Nibbles who was riding at 10/15 seconds adrift. That situation was lasting the whole climb. Still good, but you can look it at different ways.

The Giro 2010 indeed had everything. Fight between the GC guys, crazy stages, especially the stage to L'Aquila. Thanks to that stage, we had two races in a race, namely a race between the climbers during that Tour (Basso, Scarponi, Evans, Nibali), but also to catch Arroyo, who had a big advantage in GC.

However, i still think the Tour 2010 was pretty good. Of course, the stage to Ans didn't provided much spectacle in the sense that GC guys were were challenging each other on Redoute and Rosier, but still there were a lot of crashes, and it looked for a second that Andy wasn't able to come back. Also the fact that Cancellara managed to convince the Rabo and Cervelo guys not to work at the front, was something that caused controversy. I'm not saying this is a classic fight for GC which everyone (including me) wants to see, but it was still a nice opener.

The stage to Arenberg was one of the best stages of the year, because a lot of things happened (Frank Schleck crashed, Andy who was in the right break, Contador and Armstrong wo were not, the puncture of Armstrong, Vino who didn't wait at Contador at the finish).

The first medium mountainstage to Station des Rousses was boring, the first Alpine stage to Morzine wasn't that spectaculair, but we still saw the fall of Armstrong. The second Alpine stage was really good, with a 'Evans Giro 2002' situation, and a good fight between Andy and Alberto, and Sammy who had cramps and desperately tried to catch the two. In the end the two climbers even managed to catch the leaders.

The stage to Mende was good because Purito won (), and Alberto struck Andy mentally. The pyrenees were so-so, a boring stage (Pau), but a nice descent of Port de Bales, a ''sur-place'' on Ax-3 Domaines and a decent stage to Tourmalet. I agree with you that they only wait till the last climb, but mainly because Contador wasn't that good and Andy doesn't dare to attack from far out.

I forgot that the first 60/70 k of the stage to Pau were spectaculair, with groups all over the place. It was really disappointed that after the Aspin, the Tour-organisation managed to ****ed up the stage so badly.

You are right, 2010 Tour wasn't that bad. Good prologue, ruined hilly stage but with the intrigue of wtf is the peloton doing listening to Canc. Great Arenberg stage.

Sprints were interesting because the green jersey was major on the line in a 3 way - Pettachi vs Cav and Hushovd doing his thing in the mountains.

Alpes 2 stages were really good. Morzine was good, with Lance dropping on the 2nd last climb, and gc riders not going full out but some battles and ANdy taking time.

Morienne was very good, actually one of the few good all day stages we had because from the shotgun Caisse were stratigizing to get Lulu in top 10 throwing Moreau in with him as a domestique and Cunego also getting up there, then Al and Andy blowing it up 35k out, Samu almost catching them on the descent, one of the best TDF mountain stages in years.

Pyranees were disapointing but still Bonsacre did have the gc guys thin out and Andy and Al losing a few seconds. Bales had the chaingate controversy, pau had Lance try to win the stage and Tourmalet, had half a duel.

Transition stages were quite good. The one half Alpes one sucked but the other, had Sylvain take back the yellow with a nice break from the peloton, and the Mende stage was very very good imo as Astana totally cracked Saxo by putting Vino in the break and then Vino almost holding on but not managing it.

So yes, quite solid tour by recent standards.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

I will gladly trade all the action in the world on the 2011 Sestrières stage for the visual of Kiryienka finishing the stage solo.

The only thing he did wrong was that he put his sunglasses on in the last couple of hundred metres because he didn't want the photos of the finish to show him crying.

The 2011 Tour was one of the finest 1 week races I've seen in years. But that's all it was. 2009 Vuelta had more action than the first 2 weeks of that Tour. Maybe not the 2009 Tour though.