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2015 Richmond WCRR features cobbles!

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Jspear

Jspear

Feb 23, 2014
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hrotha

hrotha

Jun 10, 2010
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Those cobbles are more decent than I expected (althogh obviously this isn't going to be Roubaix or even the Ronde). The paved patch looks weird though, and I'm not even thinking in cycling terms here. What's up with that?
 
Race Radio

Race Radio

Aug 13, 2009
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OK, I am going to say it.

I hate that US fans feel they have to make their courses feel "Euro" with some goofy pseudo cobbles, Flanders flags, etc. ......and unless your name is Johan or Edwig don't show up with a Lion of Flanders flag. The only flag with an animal on it I will have will be the California flag with a Grizzly Bear.

I will not smuggling in an Duvals, Leffe's, or Chimay. I will have a Camelback filled with real Kentucky Bourbon.....and that Camelback will be made the American way, with Chinese prison labor.
 
42x16ss

42x16ss

May 23, 2009
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Jspear said:
That first part of 23rd street(going up the hill) has a large section of paved road. Whichever riders do their homework and know that's coming up will probably be able to use that to their advantage.

I personally can't wait as I'm just two hours away. I'm always watching via TV and Internet....finally get to see one of the best races in person!
Click to expand...
Large? That's maybe 20-25 ft. The steepness of the hill and narrowness of the street will have 100000x more influence than that handful of pavers, unless there's torrential rain.
 
V

veji11

Apr 15, 2013
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42x16ss said:
Large? That's maybe 20-25 ft. The steepness of the hill and narrowness of the street will have 100000x more influence than that handful of pavers, unless there's torrential rain.
Click to expand...

The cobbled bit on the side just makes the paved part a lot tighter, riders are all going to want to stay on that part of the road and the battle for positioning is going to be very very brutal, more so than the climb itself.

This is assuming that they don't redo the whole bit with new cobbles.
 
Race Radio

Race Radio

Aug 13, 2009
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veji11 said:
The cobbled bit on the side just makes the paved part a lot tighter, riders are all going to want to stay on that part of the road and the battle for positioning is going to be very very brutal, more so than the climb itself.

This is assuming that they don't redo the whole bit with new cobbles.
Click to expand...

The cobbles are only going to matter in the last 2-3 laps, by that time the group will be thinned out
 
V

veji11

Apr 15, 2013
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Race Radio said:
The cobbles are only going to matter in the last 2-3 laps, by that time the group will be thinned out
Click to expand...
But it is the constant battle for positioning in the previous laps to be at the right place before the cobbles that is going to make the thinning out process much more brutal. This is how it works with cobbles : They themselves are tiring, but the battle to stay upfront before the cobbles is just as taxing.

This is why you often have on cobbled races such as RVV or Paris Roubaix breakaway riders finishing in good place, as opposed to on LBL or Lombardia where the bunch always gets them.

Last year riders like Roelandts in RVV or Gaudin in Paris Roubaix would have lost too much energy constantly fighting for position in the peloton to reach the standing they did by standing back. But because they attacked from afar and could therefore pace themselves before each cobbled sector/hill and not lose all that energy in the positioning battle, they managed to last a lot longer.

This peculiarity of cobbled races : before each sector there is a battle for positioning, and that battle starts at the very firts cobbled sector, even if it is 150kms from the finish line, is what could make this race really hard. More than the difficulty of the cobble themselves. In the case of that short partly cobbled section, the battle to be ahead because of the narrowness of the paved portion will have the same taxing consequences.
 
B

babastooey

Jul 10, 2012
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The two big things people are looking at are Libby Hill (cobbles) and 23rd Street (a little bit of cobbles).

Two sections people are looking at much less are the paving bricks on Monument Avenue and the cobblestones on Cary Street.

Cary Street is wider than Roubaix sections, but they look like this:

http://domnozziadventures.files.wordpress.com/2011/12/cobblestone-cary-st-in-richmond-1007.jpg

And the riders will be going downhill.

I can only imagine how crazy this route is going to be if there is rain.
 
Race Radio

Race Radio

Aug 13, 2009
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veji11 said:
But it is the constant battle for positioning in the previous laps to be at the right place before the cobbles that is going to make the thinning out process much more brutal. This is how it works with cobbles : They themselves are tiring, but the battle to stay upfront before the cobbles is just as taxing.

This is why you often have on cobbled races such as RVV or Paris Roubaix breakaway riders finishing in good place, as opposed to on LBL or Lombardia where the bunch always gets them.

Last year riders like Roelandts in RVV or Gaudin in Paris Roubaix would have lost too much energy constantly fighting for position in the peloton to reach the standing they did by standing back. But because they attacked from afar and could therefore pace themselves before each cobbled sector/hill and not lose all that energy in the positioning battle, they managed to last a lot longer.

This peculiarity of cobbled races : before each sector there is a battle for positioning, and that battle starts at the very firts cobbled sector, even if it is 150kms from the finish line, is what could make this race really hard. More than the difficulty of the cobble themselves. In the case of that short partly cobbled section, the battle to be ahead because of the narrowness of the paved portion will have the same taxing consequences.
Click to expand...

Agreed, but this is not Flanders where there can be sections every few minutes. This is 1-2 short sections per lap and they are pretty smooth, one with a strip of asphalt.
 
V

veji11

Apr 15, 2013
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Race Radio said:
Agreed, but this is not Flanders where there can be sections every few minutes. This is 1-2 short sections per lap and they are pretty smooth, one with a strip of asphalt.
Click to expand...

Disagree, the cobbled sections are in quick succession, with the first one being a turning climb in a park, then downhil, 3 90° sharp crit like turns in a city environment, than up the partly cobbled hill and then down again before the final 400 metres climb to the last flat 600 metres. That should make the last 4 kms of the circuit really brutal.

Repeat that 14 or 15 times and this is going to hurt. from the 9th/10th lap on, the elimination race will be on and some teams (belgians for Boonen or germany for a Degenlkob for example) will really turn the screw on. It will be a battle for positioning otherwise the leading group will be gone.

Anyway a very different WCC, which is interesting.
 
Race Radio

Race Radio

Aug 13, 2009
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veji11 said:
Disagree, the cobbled sections are in quick succession, with the first one being a turning climb in a park, then downhil, 3 90° sharp crit like turns in a city environment, than up the partly cobbled hill and then down again before the final 400 metres climb to the last flat 600 metres. That should make the last 4 kms of the circuit really brutal.

Repeat that 14 or 15 times and this is going to hurt. from the 9th/10th lap on, the elimination race will be on and some teams (belgians for Boonen or germany for a Degenlkob for example) will really turn the screw on. It will be a battle for positioning otherwise the leading group will be gone.

Anyway a very different WCC, which is interesting.
Click to expand...

I see your point, I just don't think it will be as selective as Flanders or Roubaix.

I like your picks. I agree it will come down to a sprinter/Rouler who can last 250km. Could also be a Cancellara type who can surf the field and let the strong teams do all the work. Phinney and of course.....Sagan
 
V

veji11

Apr 15, 2013
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Race Radio said:
I see your point, I just don't think it will be as selective as Flanders or Roubaix.

I like your picks. I agree it will come down to a sprinter/Rouler who can last 250km. Could also be a Cancellara type who can surf the field and let the strong teams do all the work. Phinney and of course.....Sagan
Click to expand...

I suppose the word selective can be a bit deceptive. clearly this isn't as hard in terms of pure difficulty as Flanders or Roubaix, this is for sure. But the last 4 kms of the circuit are very peculiar and it is hard to know how the repetition will work out. Also because this being an urban circuit, there are a faire bit of very sharp turns all along, which make it hard for the peloton to stay packed, and force riders who have fallen behind to use the few straight bits for big accelerations to get back at the front. All these efforts could play a big role, but yes it is also possible that we have a peloton of 60 at the start of the last 4kms in spite of the 250kms before...
 
Michele

Michele

Mar 26, 2009
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It all depends how the race will be done; every year it seems that the Worlds route will be one of the most difficult but very often they end up in a group sprint.
 
The Hitch

The Hitch

Jun 14, 2010
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veji11 said:
Repeat that 14 or 15 times and this is going to hurt. from the 9th/10th lap on, the elimination race will be on and some teams (belgians for Boonen or germany for a Degenlkob for example) will really turn the screw on. It will be a battle for positioning otherwise the leading group will be gone.
Click to expand...

Hate to play the pessimist, but this years WC was supposed to be a once in a lifetime superhard edition, where all the domesituqes would be gone by the 2nd lap and less than 10 riders would finish.

Instead it was like a 250k champs Elysee run in without the champaign followed by a handful of riders finally putting in attacks a few hundred metres from the top of the climb.

So will riders really turn on the screw here. I hope, but we've seen any course can be turned these days into a modern Fleche Wallone.
 
Jspear

Jspear

Feb 23, 2014
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Michele said:
It all depends how the race will be done; every year it seems that the Worlds route will be one of the most difficult but very often they end up in a group sprint.
Click to expand...

The last two years haven't ended in sprint finishes. I personally thought that the 2013 worlds were extremely interesting. The final kilometers were very fun to watch.
 
42x16ss

42x16ss

May 23, 2009
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Jspear said:
There was a group finish in 2011. Cav won that year.
Click to expand...
Thats because the parcours was a joke, over 80 riders finished @ st. Geelong in 2010 was a large bunch finish too (about 20). The only reason that the entire bunch didn't finish together at Zolder in 2002 was because of a huge crash, 2005 had a good size bunch finish too.
 
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