2016 Eneco Tour (WT): Sept 19 - 25th

[El Pistolero]

Re:

El Pisoleto is just mad that a dutchman won.

Couldn't care less that a Dutchman won lol. I was rooting for Dumoulin in the Olympic TT.

Take a look at Groenewege's palmares, that's the definition of no-name sprinter. I never said he would remain a no-name for the rest of his career btw. Outside of hardcore cycling fans, nobody knows him.

 

[Jagartrott]

Re: Re:

indeed both Griepel and Kittel were up there. Their dominance has a lot to do with having the strongest leadouts. always nice to see sprints where leadouts play no role and it's all the sprinters 1v1

How can you say this was the sprinters one on one when several of the biggest names really didn't sprint or only at 50% because there was no room? Greipel was 18th, Degenkolb 25th. But of course you guys know what I'm talking about, yet you choose not to understand. With this type of chaotic sprint, it'll be 10 different winners in 10 different sprints.

Btw, Kittel had this to say:
"I was hoping for more, but I can't say I'm disappointed. The stage finale was super fast and hectic, as all the sprinters tried to be at the front. Tom did a great job in protecting me, Matteo was also there, and after their work was done, I jumped from wheel to wheel and took the one of Boasson Hagen. My plan was to sprint with 250 meters to go, but Nizzolo came from the right and brought several riders with him, blocking my way. I had no more space, and it's a real pity, because I was feeling great and still had enough power to do a good sprint", said Marcel Kittel, a former stage winner at the Eneco Tour, before heading to the hotel.

 

[jens_attacks]

that was one hell of a sprint

also probably the richest top 20 of the whole season in sprinting depth, what do you peeps say?
dylan is becoming one of my fav sprinters.

 

[BigMac]

Re: Re:

El Pisoleto is just mad that a dutchman won.

Couldn't care less that a Dutchman won lol. I was rooting for Dumoulin in the Olympic TT.

Take a look at Groenewege's palmares, that's the definition of no-name sprinter. I never said he would remain a no-name for the rest of his career btw. Outside of hardcore cycling fans, nobody knows him.

Not true. And not decent hyperbole either.

What if a ''no-name sprinter'' won? Should only the big guns be allowed to win big races? Did the big guns not win big races before they become big guns, so that, indeed, they could be considered big guns? Was there always not a first time? P'raps he's not a 'nobody' anymore. That's circular mentality you're displaying.

 

[Alexandre B.]

The guy is 23, has a very solid season, is the current national champion of a strong cycling country. But hey, it's a no-name.

I know you despise sprinters, ElPistolero, but there's some knowledge to acquire about the current sprinting field.

 

[El Pistolero]

Re: Re:

El Pisoleto is just mad that a dutchman won.

Couldn't care less that a Dutchman won lol. I was rooting for Dumoulin in the Olympic TT.

Take a look at Groenewege's palmares, that's the definition of no-name sprinter. I never said he would remain a no-name for the rest of his career btw. Outside of hardcore cycling fans, nobody knows him.

Not true. And not decent hyperbole either.

What if a ''no-name sprinter'' won? Should only the big guns be allowed to win big races? Did the big guns not win big races before they become big guns, so that, indeed, they could be considered big guns? Was there always not a first time? P'raps he's not a 'nobody' anymore. That's circular mentality you're displaying.

If you butcher the route of a great stage race to attract the world's best sprinters and they don't win then you failed as an organisation. Serves them right.

 

[Jspear]

Re: Re:

indeed both Griepel and Kittel were up there. Their dominance has a lot to do with having the strongest leadouts. always nice to see sprints where leadouts play no role and it's all the sprinters 1v1

How can you say this was the sprinters one on one when several of the biggest names really didn't sprint or only at 50% because there was no room? Greipel was 18th, Degenkolb 25th. But of course you guys know what I'm talking about, yet you choose not to understand. With this type of chaotic sprint, it'll be 10 different winners in 10 different sprints.

Btw, Kittel had this to say:
"I was hoping for more, but I can't say I'm disappointed. The stage finale was super fast and hectic, as all the sprinters tried to be at the front. Tom did a great job in protecting me, Matteo was also there, and after their work was done, I jumped from wheel to wheel and took the one of Boasson Hagen. My plan was to sprint with 250 meters to go, but Nizzolo came from the right and brought several riders with him, blocking my way. I had no more space, and it's a real pity, because I was feeling great and still had enough power to do a good sprint", said Marcel Kittel, a former stage winner at the Eneco Tour, before heading to the hotel.

I think I understand what your saying. I still say it's part of sprinting. You have to fight to be in a sprint. Your not always going to have a teammate holding your hand till the end. Sprinting is SO much more than strength. It's positioning, getting behind the right guy, sprinting straight so you're not regulated, ect. The Tour sprints were less organized than usual and Kittel didn't do to well there either. He was beaten today while trying to sprint.

 

[Brullnux]

This race has always had two or three pan flat stages, they have to go through the Netherlands after all. Problem is misplaced TTT and no Ardennes stage, not that there are too many sprint stages. It is the Benelux tour, after all. There has to be a few sprint stages.

 

[Jspear]

Re: Re:

El Pisoleto is just mad that a dutchman won.

Couldn't care less that a Dutchman won lol. I was rooting for Dumoulin in the Olympic TT.

Take a look at Groenewege's palmares, that's the definition of no-name sprinter. I never said he would remain a no-name for the rest of his career btw. Outside of hardcore cycling fans, nobody knows him.

Not true. And not decent hyperbole either.

What if a ''no-name sprinter'' won? Should only the big guns be allowed to win big races? Did the big guns not win big races before they become big guns, so that, indeed, they could be considered big guns? Was there always not a first time? P'raps he's not a 'nobody' anymore. That's circular mentality you're displaying.

If you butcher the route of a great stage race to attract the world's best sprinters and they don't win then you failed as an organisation. Serves them right.

The worlds best sprinters were there in the final. Seems like the organizers did their job right. After the organizers get the riders there, it's up to them to win. If they don't it's usually their own fault.

 

[BigMac]

Re: Re:

El Pisoleto is just mad that a dutchman won.

Couldn't care less that a Dutchman won lol. I was rooting for Dumoulin in the Olympic TT.

Take a look at Groenewege's palmares, that's the definition of no-name sprinter. I never said he would remain a no-name for the rest of his career btw. Outside of hardcore cycling fans, nobody knows him.

Not true. And not decent hyperbole either.

What if a ''no-name sprinter'' won? Should only the big guns be allowed to win big races? Did the big guns not win big races before they become big guns, so that, indeed, they could be considered big guns? Was there always not a first time? P'raps he's not a 'nobody' anymore. That's circular mentality you're displaying.

If you butcher the route of a great stage race to attract the world's best sprinters and they don't win then you failed as an organisation. Serves them right.

What's it their fault Groenewegen was simply stronger? Or that Kittel was sub par? If they made a course for sprinters, a sprinter won. I seriously don't see your point.

 

[El Pistolero]

Re: Re:

El Pisoleto is just mad that a dutchman won.

Couldn't care less that a Dutchman won lol. I was rooting for Dumoulin in the Olympic TT.

Take a look at Groenewege's palmares, that's the definition of no-name sprinter. I never said he would remain a no-name for the rest of his career btw. Outside of hardcore cycling fans, nobody knows him.

Not true. And not decent hyperbole either.

What if a ''no-name sprinter'' won? Should only the big guns be allowed to win big races? Did the big guns not win big races before they become big guns, so that, indeed, they could be considered big guns? Was there always not a first time? P'raps he's not a 'nobody' anymore. That's circular mentality you're displaying.

If you butcher the route of a great stage race to attract the world's best sprinters and they don't win then you failed as an organisation. Serves them right.

What's it their fault Groenewegen was simply stronger? Or that Kittel was sub par? If they made a course for sprinters, a sprinter won. I seriously don't see your point.

They butchered the route so the world's best sprinters would come. Therefor I'm happy to see a no-name win. Is it that hard to understand? Hopefully next year they'll return to the normal route. It's their fault that they butchered the route for boring sprinters yes. A Tour of the Benelux this is not... Instead of skipping Luxembourg and Wallonia they should consider skipping the Netherlands.

 

[Kwibus]

Re: Re:

El Pisoleto is just mad that a dutchman won.

Couldn't care less that a Dutchman won lol. I was rooting for Dumoulin in the Olympic TT.

Take a look at Groenewege's palmares, that's the definition of no-name sprinter. I never said he would remain a no-name for the rest of his career btw. Outside of hardcore cycling fans, nobody knows him.

Not true. And not decent hyperbole either.

What if a ''no-name sprinter'' won? Should only the big guns be allowed to win big races? Did the big guns not win big races before they become big guns, so that, indeed, they could be considered big guns? Was there always not a first time? P'raps he's not a 'nobody' anymore. That's circular mentality you're displaying.

If you butcher the route of a great stage race to attract the world's best sprinters and they don't win then you failed as an organisation. Serves them right.

I'm sure the organisation of an Dutch/Belgian race feel like they failed when the dutch national champion wins the stage in the Netherlands. Big Fail!

 

[El Pistolero]

Re: Re:

El Pisoleto is just mad that a dutchman won.

Couldn't care less that a Dutchman won lol. I was rooting for Dumoulin in the Olympic TT.

Take a look at Groenewege's palmares, that's the definition of no-name sprinter. I never said he would remain a no-name for the rest of his career btw. Outside of hardcore cycling fans, nobody knows him.

Not true. And not decent hyperbole either.

What if a ''no-name sprinter'' won? Should only the big guns be allowed to win big races? Did the big guns not win big races before they become big guns, so that, indeed, they could be considered big guns? Was there always not a first time? P'raps he's not a 'nobody' anymore. That's circular mentality you're displaying.

If you butcher the route of a great stage race to attract the world's best sprinters and they don't win then you failed as an organisation. Serves them right.

I'm sure the organisation of an Dutch/Belgian race feel like they failed when the dutch national champion wins the stage in the Netherlands. Big Fail!

Kittel, Cav or Greipel winning would bring more exposure to the company that sponsors this race.

 

[Alexandre B.]

Young sprinters are not allowed to develop, guys. Here are the rules of Pistolero's world.

 

[Kwibus]

Re: Re:

Pistolero bla bla

Dude. I'm sure everyone agrees that they messed up the route and we all want to see the race like it was the last 2-3 years, but they went all in to attract the riders that want to do well at the WC.
I can't really blame them for that, allthough I wished they didn't. I'm sure they still would have a quality field.

Also typical Pistolero behaviour. It's not like he's going to admit he made an silly comment. Instead he will defend it and.....

 

[El Pistolero]

Re:

Young sprinters are not allowed to develop, guys. Here are the rules of Pistolero's world.

Of course they're allowed to develop. Point is, he's not top sprinter yet. We saw that at the Tour this year.

Ask 20 random Belgians or Dutch people on the street who Dylan Groenewegen is. I'm pretty sure most people wouldn't know who the hell you're talking about. Hence he's a no-name at this point in his career. Not sure why you guys argue otherwise. He has only 6k followers on twitter.

 

[BigMac]

Re: Re:

Young sprinters are not allowed to develop, guys. Here are the rules of Pistolero's world.

Of course they're allowed to develop. Point is, he's not top sprinter yet. We saw that at the Tour this year.

Ask 20 random Belgians or Dutch people on the street who Dylan Groenewegen is. I'm pretty sure most people wouldn't know who the hell you're talking about. Hence he's a no-name at this point in his career. Not sure why you guys argue otherwise. He has only 6k followers on twitter.

Love it. This tops that time you said San Sebastián was less prestigious than Strade Bianche because the former only had 8 pages of discussion here in the forum.

 

[El Pistolero]

Re: Re:

Young sprinters are not allowed to develop, guys. Here are the rules of Pistolero's world.

Of course they're allowed to develop. Point is, he's not top sprinter yet. We saw that at the Tour this year.

Ask 20 random Belgians or Dutch people on the street who Dylan Groenewegen is. I'm pretty sure most people wouldn't know who the hell you're talking about. Hence he's a no-name at this point in his career. Not sure why you guys argue otherwise. He has only 6k followers on twitter.

Love it. This tops that time you said San Sebastián was less prestigious than Strade Bianche because the former only had 8 pages of discussion here in the forum.

Believe it or not, someone's popularity is reflected on their social media pages.

 

[BigMac]

It is. Just like the prestige of a race can in a way be measured by the amount of discussion it gathers here and in other boards, it can also mean absolutely nothing. Just like more popular riders have a larger fanbase on social network, having a small amount of followers doesn't mean one is ''no-name''. I am well aware of Groenewegen's skillset and I do not follow him on Twitter nor do I consider him a ''no-name'', despite doing so for many other riders, some of whom truly unknown. I see he never tweets in English: that's just one reason he doesn't have more followers.

 

[Red Rick]

Let's keep this about the Eneco Tour of this year, and not about some posts somebody made months ago.

 

[pablohidalgo7]

Groenewegen has beaten this season guys like Bouhanni (several times), Ewan, Greipel, Ardnt,Sagan,Van Poppel,Mclay,Wippert,Dupont. All of them in 1vs1, not bad for a no-name sprinter

 

[Valv.Piti]

I always enjoy reading discussion with El Pistolero. At times, he seems to argue just for the sake of arguing and to be controversial.

 

[El Pistolero]

Groenewegen has beaten this season guys like Bouhanni (several times), Ewan, Greipel, Ardnt,Sagan,Van Poppel,Mclay,Wippert,Dupont. All of them in 1vs1, not bad for a no-name sprinter

When has he beaten them in a race that matters? News flash: cyclists peak for certain races.

Guardini, Coquard and Theo Bos also clean(ed) up the smaller races...

 

[Breh]

I'm tempted to agree with El Pistolero. Groenewegen is a developing talent, sure. But he's not even close to being a big name. His biggest WT results are a 4th place in a TDF stage and finishing 6th in Hamburg.
Compare him to the others guys in the top10, they've all won GT stages except for Démare (MSR, Vatenfall,...), Dylan has only picked up 26WT points in his entire carreer.

A big talent, for sure. A big name? No, not in the slightest. And that's nothing to be ashamed of, he's only 23.

 

[Jspear]

Re:

I'm tempted to agree with El Pistolero. Groenewegen is a developing talent, sure. But he's not even close to being a big name. His biggest WT results are a 4th place in a TDF stage and finishing 6th in Hamburg.
Compare him to the others guys in the top10, they've all won GT stages except for Démare (MSR, Vatenfall,...), Dylan has only picked up 26WT points in his entire carreer.

A big talent, for sure. A big name? No, not in the slightest. And that's nothing to be ashamed of, he's only 23.

He's definitely not a big name...I might have missed it, but I don't think anyone was claiming that. There's a difference between a "no name" and a big name.